Tyreke Evans vs. O.J. Mayo

[Wretch]

I wouldn't mind Evans at all. In addition to his ball-handling the guy can play some defense. His arms are very long and his hands are big. I do think he can develop into a consistant 20 ppg guy. Thus a good scorer but not a primary guy.

I agree. My thing is, if we're in "win now" mode, he's at worst a questionable acquisition. I wouldn't even put him at that Joe Johnson level when we took him out of Phoenix - Joe was coming into his own. BUT, he can contribute and he can break down the defense. If we have the room to let him develop, then it's not a bad call. If we want to win now, he's got a little more pressure to produce and you have to push him to work on that jumper...and you take a chance that he isn't your SG of the future. In either case, what do you have to lose? A little cap space for a winner, but...who we gonna spend it on realistically? At a decent price, he's also a trade able asset because he does have the "P" word hanging over him still.

Ultimately, it's hard to say what we'll do. I think Danny is thinking retool with the least amount of growing pains possible - IOW maintain our winning record. So, that means going after guys that are known quantities while maintaining cap flexibility. That doesn't exactly spell, "spend some change on an unproven SG and see if he'll develop." O.J. Mayo is more the type of guy DF would be more inclined to go after - he's settling into his role and you can see what kind of player he is (SG in a PG's body...a combo guard, niche shooter like Jason Terry).

[Cwell]

Y'know...

I've done the merry-go-round with people about players for many many many many years. I stopped doing that about 8 years ago when I argued people to death about drafting Chris Paul. in the end, management makes the decisions and no matter how loud I scream, it won't change the direction they go in. What's left is an argument over pride - "I know more about basketball and players than you do." That sort of thing, I've just too old for.

So, you may be right and he may be a bum. Others may be right, and he may be waiting to blossom. I'm going to stick by what I've said, which is the same thing I said about Jeff Teague when people were so convinced he was a bum.

He's hitting on 33% of his threes. It's certainly not near the top of the list where the best 3point shooters are, but he doesn't shoot a ton of jumpers (which is consistent with his ROY performance). You can attribute it to confidence or lack of good coaching, or just failure...but I won't call it ineptitude until I see him really working on his jump shot and missing miserably. As it were, the guy sticks close to what he knows he's good at.

When I evaluate players, i don't pay too much attention to stats. I watch the mechanics of how they play and I base my opinions on that. Two points isn't always two points. Stat collection is quantitative and not at all qualitative. A garbage time layup with 20 seconds left in the game is not the same as a highly contested layup with 20 seconds left in a close game. But over the course of the season, these numbers are going to add up in quantity. It's not going to tell you much about degree of difficulty, pressure situations, or anything that really defines how good a player is.

When I look at Tyreke, I see a guy that is scary good with this handles and the ability to finish or free himself up for a jumper. Now, he doesn't make a lot of jumpers, but then again...he doesn't take a lot of them. I also see a guy in a bad situation that may need some grooming and a more focused role (like Teague). I don't think we're winning anything anytime soon, so I would take a chance on him. You wouldn't so, agree to disagree. Let's revisit this in 3 or 4 years and see what kind of player he actually tuns into - I will.

(...and I wasn't paying attention to how many years he's been in the league, but yeah it's been 4. That doesn't change my opinion.)

i'm not arguing about how good or bad a player is. That was not me. I'm just looking at the fit on this team, and I think we'd be better off with a guy that can handle the ball, get in the lane as well as be able to knock down open jumpers. He doesn't have to be Korver like from 3 but be a legit threat. Somebody that is a one trick pony is not a good fit next to Jeff. Not being able to shoot and not taking a lot of jumpers is the same thing to me because at the end of the day the defense isn't being stretched to the perimeter to respect his shot making ability

[Wretch]

And I would agree with you if we were talking about a 6-8 year guy, from a proven and stable environment. He has those flaws - he's not a jump shooter. No argument. But whereas many people have written him off and are not interested in trying to groom him here (i.e. win now mode), I think he is not done growing and I'm in "talent acquisition" mode - and i think we have room for him.

[yungsta]

My ideal height for a 2 is 6'6" or above, nothing less, so I'm not high on either of these guys. In a perfect world, we could just ask the Pacers to clone us a Paul George. I'm a Kobe guy, so my philosophy separates 2s based on defensive versatility. I've seen Tyreke guard some bigger guys, but it certainly isn't ideal.

actually tyreke is a big guard. He is listed at 6,6 with a 7,0 wingspan at 220 pounds and is pretty muscular which is why I am very interested in him. The kings have actually played him at SF alot and he was more than capable of holding his own.

I know we got spoiled with joe johnson but joe is pretty huge for a SG.

Edited April 1, 2013 by yungsta

[MaceCase]

Why not just have both?

Oh wait, this board will still separate into camps even if they are leading us to consecutive Finals victories.

[yungsta]

Why not just have both?

Oh wait, this board will still separate into camps even if they are leading us to consecutive Finals victories.

we dont need both we need to keep some cap space to get some BIGS to address our pitiful rebounding and you know they do not come cheap.

[MaceCase]

we dont need both we need to keep some cap space to get some BIGS to address our pitiful rebounding and you know they do not come cheap.

Sincerely doubt that either is getting higher than 10 mil a year, closer to 8 actually so I do see scenarios where we could comfortably chase after a Pekovic or Splitter too. Replacing our current PF that has been anemic on the boards with any decent big and then having better rebounding from the guard position solves that issue.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Sincerely doubt that either is getting higher than 10 mil a year, closer to 8 actually so I do see scenarios where we could comfortably chase after a Pekovic or Splitter too. Replacing our current PF that has been anemic on the boards with any decent big and then having better rebounding from the guard position solves that issue.

I guess both could happen, but then that makes Lou into a full-time backup PG and where does Jenkins get minutes. I don't like the idea of having Tyreke at SF full time with O.J. starting. Only other option I see is to cut Teague loose and starting Tyreke at PG w/ O.J. at SG, but I'd hate to see Teague thrown to the curbside like that. And I agree that neither will see north of $8 mil next season. I'd love a Teague/Evans back court with either Dwight or Bynum/Horf/Smith, Dwight or Bynum/Horf/Iggy or Horf/Smith/Iggy front court. Give Tyreke 4yr/$28 mil, Bynum 3yr/$36 mil, and Iggy 4yr/$50 mil and we would have a fun team to watch.

C - Bynum

PF - Horf

SF - Iggy

SG - Tyreke

PG - Teague

Might be a good enough team to sway Atlanta fans into the arena and seriously compete with Miami, Indy, NY, and Chicago.

[AHF]

ESPN projects both guys at roughly 8.5M.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9109226/nba-top-30-free-agents-2013-ranked-average-annual-value

[Wretch]

I guess both could happen, but then that makes Lou into a full-time backup PG and where does Jenkins get minutes. I don't like the idea of having Tyreke at SF full time with O.J. starting. Only other option I see is to cut Teague loose and starting Tyreke at PG w/ O.J. at SG, but I'd hate to see Teague thrown to the curbside like that. And I agree that neither will see north of $8 mil next season. I'd love a Teague/Evans back court with either Dwight or Bynum/Horf/Smith, Dwight or Bynum/Horf/Iggy or Horf/Smith/Iggy front court. Give Tyreke 4yr/$28 mil, Bynum 3yr/$36 mil, and Iggy 4yr/$50 mil and we would have a fun team to watch.

C - Bynum

PF - Horf

SF - Iggy

SG - Tyreke

PG - Teague

Might be a good enough team to sway Atlanta fans into the arena and seriously compete with Miami, Indy, NY, and Chicago.

You guys aren't scared of Bynum's injury history tho? I swear that guy seems like Theo Ratliff 2.0...

[yungsta]

I guess both could happen, but then that makes Lou into a full-time backup PG and where does Jenkins get minutes. I don't like the idea of having Tyreke at SF full time with O.J. starting. Only other option I see is to cut Teague loose and starting Tyreke at PG w/ O.J. at SG, but I'd hate to see Teague thrown to the curbside like that. And I agree that neither will see north of $8 mil next season. I'd love a Teague/Evans back court with either Dwight or Bynum/Horf/Smith, Dwight or Bynum/Horf/Iggy or Horf/Smith/Iggy front court. Give Tyreke 4yr/$28 mil, Bynum 3yr/$36 mil, and Iggy 4yr/$50 mil and we would have a fun team to watch. C - BynumPF - HorfSF - IggySG - TyrekePG - Teague Might be a good enough team to sway Atlanta fans into the arena and seriously compete with Miami, Indy, NY, and Chicago.

You know i usually never agree with projected lineups or free agency signings on here but that lineup would be nasty they are big long athletic with elite defensive potiential and would be devestating in transition. My only concern would be outside shooting so we should fill the bench with shooters so we can give bynum more room to operate. Edited April 1, 2013 by yungsta

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

You know i usually never agree with projected lineups or free agency signings on here but that lineup would be nasty they are big long athletic with elite defensive potiential and would be devestating in transition. My only concern would be outside shooting so we should fill the bench with shooters so we can give bynum more room to operate.

Resign Korver and we still have Jenkins and Lou. Pachulia as the backup center with Scott and Ivan.

[Ruckus]

Iggy + Tyreke + Pekovic with Al and Teague and we would be instant contenders.

[cam1218]

I'm not going to write a long post, I'm just going to agree with Wretch on his assessment of the two guards. I'll take Evans and his potential. I will say that having a team leader like Horford makes it easier to take on "risks" because he plays the right way. You just have to hope it rubs off.

Edited April 3, 2013 by cam1218

[yungsta]

I'm not going to write a long post, I'm just going to agree with Wretch on his assessment of the two guards. I'll take Evans and his potential.I will say that having a team leader like Horford makes it easier to take on "risks" because he plays the right way. You just have to hope it rubs off.

thats why I think its important for LD to be gone. I never want to see a player (unless they are a top 5 player maybe) come here and get as much special treatment as smoove. That is the kind of stuff that can have the team turn against the coach and lose respect for him.

Can you imagine bynum coming here and he starts shooting threes like he did that one time in LA and but this time he does not face any consequences? then all of a sudden he is averaging 2-3 3-point attempts a game? and starts going to the post less and less?

that is the kind of stuff that separates contenders from mediocre/bad teams.

Edited April 3, 2013 by yungsta

[cam1218]

thats why I think its important for LD to be gone. I never want to see a player (unless they are a top 5 player maybe) come here and get as much special treatment as smoove. That is the kind of stuff that can have the team turn against the coach and lose respect for him.

Can you imagine bynum coming here and he starts shooting threes like he did that one time in LA and but this time he does not face any consequences? then all of a sudden he is averaging 2-3 3-point attempts a game? and starts going to the post less and less?

that is the kind of stuff that separates contenders from mediocre/bad teams.

You're spot on.

I don't look at Drew as a bad coach honestly. It is kind of like being promoted to a boss and you still have personal relationships with people that are all of a sudden going to be bellow you. It is tough to transition into that role.

I think Drew got caught up in the same thing here. He was their buddy and he can't control certain aspects of the game. I think many teams would be happy if he was thier coach, he just can't be part of our "rebuilding process" for the reasons you mentioned. He bows down to Josh, there is no other way to explain Josh and his horrible shot selection.

Drew designs great plays and seems to have a decent mind. His attitude is lacking, but he has shown that he understands the game. He will be an okay coach somewhere, it just isn't going to be in Atlanta.

Edited April 3, 2013 by cam1218

[Nicholasp27]

I like getting Evans and iggy and any of the 4 bigs being mentionedBring back Zaza and korver to round out the bench and we have a strong 8-10 rotation

[Dragitoff]

I like getting Evans and iggy and any of the 4 bigs being mentionedBring back Zaza and korver to round out the bench and we have a strong 8-10 rotation

The problem with both Evans and Iggy is we'd be extremely weak outside and not have enough $ to sign a legit post threat. Other than attacking the basket, we'd have a hard time scoring in the paint. Granted, with those guys we'd be able to attack more, but we'd still have weaknesses. I'd prefer signing either Mayo, Evans, OR Iggy and then re-signing Korver to play SG/SF and get a guy who can score in the post. Jefferson with all his defensive shortcomings may be that guy since he is a legit back to the basket guy. That makes your shooters more valuable as well.

Evans and Mayo would cost alot less, but Iggy would give you a shutdown perimeter defender which would help make up for Jefferson's weakness on defense. You wouldn't need him to make up for the SG/SF's guy blowing past him.