Refs.

[Diesel]

Actually, yesterday I had the opportunity to hear Steve Javy talk about reffing in the playoffs on the radio. Javy lied so much about reffing that it wasn't funny. For instance, he said that the game of basketball is so fast that you don't get a chance to pay attention to who is being fouled. Then he referenced Michael Jordan getting so many calls going his way was not because he was MJ. The game was too fast to see Chicago Bulls #23 before you blow the whistle... B.S.

In the same breath, he talked about knowing who had beef with whom and knowing players tendencies. See the contradiction. Then he talked about Small market vs. Big Market teams and tried to use this as a suggestion that refs don't fix games. i.e. If they did, San Anton would not have any rings. It was second after second of B.S.

But the one thing I took away from his talking is: They do get memos from the league at playoff time. He said this. He said that the league sends memos to " make sure you call the games the same as you would in the regular season".. then he said.." then we would have our meetings and watch film of the teams playing so that we can learn their tendencies and then we referees would talk about the players, the situations, and their habits.". Finally he said " a ref who didn't know that there was beef between Carmelo and KG would not be doing his job and it's his job to control that situation with his whistle.". IN fact, he said that the refs have to control the games with their whistles.

Take home lesson.. What Tim Donaghy said a few years ago was correct. Refs add to or take away from games.

IF our guys are getting called for making good defensive plays and their guys are hacking and not getting called, what will happen is our guys will become more tentative on defense and their guys will be more emboldened. That's what I saw in game 1. When our guys get more tentative, a guy like Paul George goes crazy attacking the rim. When their guys are given a license to hack... Smoove become the big pussycat that he is and settles for dumbass jumpers.

[BrazilianHawk]

I say if Paul George is going to get his calls, AT LEAST MAKE HIM EARN IT. Shove him hard everytime he goes inside, because the whistle WILL BE BLOWN anyway.

Just deliver some pain and make him not want to get to the rim.

Edited April 23, 2013 by BrazilianHawk

[macdaddy]

Actually, yesterday I had the opportunity to hear Steve Javy talk about reffing in the playoffs on the radio. Javy lied so much about reffing that it wasn't funny. For instance, he said that the game of basketball is so fast that you don't get a chance to pay attention to who is being fouled. Then he referenced Michael Jordan getting so many calls going his way was not because he was MJ. The game was too fast to see Chicago Bulls #23 before you blow the whistle... B.S.

In the same breath, he talked about knowing who had beef with whom and knowing players tendencies. See the contradiction. Then he talked about Small market vs. Big Market teams and tried to use this as a suggestion that refs don't fix games. i.e. If they did, San Anton would not have any rings. It was second after second of B.S.

But the one thing I took away from his talking is: They do get memos from the league at playoff time. He said this. He said that the league sends memos to " make sure you call the games the same as you would in the regular season".. then he said.." then we would have our meetings and watch film of the teams playing so that we can learn their tendencies and then we referees would talk about the players, the situations, and their habits.". Finally he said " a ref who didn't know that there was beef between Carmelo and KG would not be doing his job and it's his job to control that situation with his whistle.". IN fact, he said that the refs have to control the games with their whistles.

Take home lesson.. What Tim Donaghy said a few years ago was correct. Refs add to or take away from games.

IF our guys are getting called for making good defensive plays and their guys are hacking and not getting called, what will happen is our guys will become more tentative on defense and their guys will be more emboldened. That's what I saw in game 1. When our guys get more tentative, a guy like Paul George goes crazy attacking the rim. When their guys are given a license to hack... Smoove become the big pussycat that he is and settles for dumbass jumpers.

Well put. And Korver can make clean blocks and get the whistle blown 5 seconds later because his reputation is of not being a good defender.

Even if you believe there is no overt BS going on just the pressure from the league with things like the Kobe-Dahntay incident creates a specific mindset in the refs. Miss a call, even a borderline one, on a league star and you'll be singled out by the league, by the media, by the coaches, by the fans. Its human nature when that happens to avoid it next time.

[frizzledizzle]

I say if Paul George is going to get his calls, AT LEAST MAKE HIM EARN IT. Shove him hard everytime he goes inside, because the whistle WILL BE BLOWN anyway.

Just deliver some pain and make him not want to get to the rim.

Some fouls were slaps on the wrist and weren't very hard but there were a few where he got rocked. He made a couple of circus shots while being fouled hard to get the and one. There was one foul where he was blatantly slammed and he wasn't the only one on the receiving end of some hard fouls. Hansbrough hit the floor hard and Stephenson was wrapped up and dropped. That's three times/three different guys that found themselves with their body smacking the hardwood. The Pacers were viewed as the physical team going into the series but they weren't the one committing hard fouls. The commentator even made a comment on one of the fouls that the Hawks got a two for one when two different guys fouled a Pacer as he drove to the basket. I'm not saying PG didn't get the benefit of the doubt on some of the calls but he was given some hard fouls. You did have some guys committing dumb fouls on jumpshots though.

Anyways... hopefully you're referring to clean hard fouls because I saw a couple of people say they hope David West was injured when he came up limping and another person specifically say they hope he broke his ankle. That's just messed up imo. Everyone I had talked to on here leading up to the game was cool and they told me I should check out the chat because it's funny. I didn't really find that funny. People hoping for injuries to other human beings over a game need to take a hard look in the mirror. I get what you're saying that you want to make someone think twice before driving to the basket but I was taken aback when people were hoping for injuries. That was pretty lowbrow.

[macdaddy]

Some fouls were slaps on the wrist and weren't very hard but there were a few where he got rocked. He made a couple of circus shots while being fouled hard to get the and one. There was one foul where he was blatantly slammed and he wasn't the only one on the receiving end of some hard fouls. Hansbrough hit the floor hard and Stephenson was wrapped up and dropped. That's three times/three different guys that found themselves with their body smacking the hardwood. The Pacers were viewed as the physical team going into the series but they weren't the one committing hard fouls. The commentator even made a comment on one of the fouls that the Hawks got a two for one when two different guys fouled a Pacer as he drove to the basket. I'm not saying PG didn't get the benefit of the doubt on some of the calls but he was given some hard fouls. You did have some guys committing dumb fouls on jumpshots though.

Anyways... hopefully you're referring to clean hard fouls because I saw a couple of people say they hope David West was injured when he came up limping and another person specifically say they hope he broke his ankle. That's just messed up imo. Everyone I had talked to on here leading up to the game was cool and they told me I should check out the chat because it's funny. I didn't really find that funny. People hoping for injuries to other human beings over a game need to take a hard look in the mirror. I get what you're saying that you want to make someone think twice before driving to the basket but I was taken aback when people were hoping for injuries. That was pretty lowbrow.

I'm not sure but i'm hoping some of those comments weren't serious. Most everyone in there knows each other so hopefully just sarcasm or something.

There are good hard fouls and bad ones and the ones the Hawks committed were bad, frustration type hard fouls. There needs to be a hard foul everytime someone has an open layup but it has to be a basketball hard foul not a flailing thing.

I'd never want anyone to get hurt but hansbrough deserves what he gets. For some reason that guy gets away with just pushing people out of the way. That isn't rebounding anywhere but the nba. Ben Wallace could still be pulling down 20 a game if he could just climb up someones back that way.

[frizzledizzle]

I'm not sure but i'm hoping some of those comments weren't serious. Most everyone in there knows each other so hopefully just sarcasm or something.

There are good hard fouls and bad ones and the ones the Hawks committed were bad, frustration type hard fouls. There needs to be a hard foul everytime someone has an open layup but it has to be a basketball hard foul not a flailing thing.

I'd never want anyone to get hurt but hansbrough deserves what he gets. For some reason that guy gets away with just pushing people out of the way. That isn't rebounding anywhere but the nba. Ben Wallace could still be pulling down 20 a game if he could just climb up someones back that way.

I get fouling hard. Two years ago when the Pacers were an 8th seed below .500 against the #1 Bulls, they were fouling Rose hard. You gotta do what ya gotta do. I'm all for clean hard fouls to instill some fear from driving to the hoop. Force teams to become jump shooters and take lower percentage shots. Paul George said that's why he was attacking the basket and being aggresive. It's playoff basketball with teams amping up their defense and if jump shots aren't falling, it can beat you. 17 free throw attempts for one player is an insane amount and I'd be upset as an opposing fan. I'm upset when guys like Wade get to the line that much. I have to believe PG was planning on being aggressive coming into the game though because he drained 16 of 17. He's a good free throw shooter but not quite that good. To make 16 of 17, it was most likely planned in advance and he practiced free throws for a higher percentage chance of putting points on the board. He was given the benefit of the doubt on some calls but he was attacking the basket and he paid the price a few times. I'm not saying the fouls were malicious, just that some guys were dishing out hard fouls. They weren't all ticky tack fouls, though some were. Hawks made em pay for some and I feel lucky the Pacers escaped the game. The final score doesn't show it but the Hawks were in it with about 8 minutes left in 4th quarter and only down about 9 after having been down 15. Things could have been very different if the Pacers weren't driving to the bucket and on the receiving end of some beneficial calls.

Hansbrough, I get people's dislike for him. There was a play against the Warriors I believe it was and he flat out through a player to the floor. It wasn't even a basketball play and I thought it was wrong. I didn't dislike him for it because I'm a Pacers fan, I love his motor and his aggressiveness. Again, I didn't agree with it and if he was on any other team I'd think he's dirty. I won't say he can't be dirty at times to be honest. But, if he's on your team you like what he brings to the table. I don't mean that play, I hated that, it was despicable. But he's tough, physical, high energy, never gets up on a play and will be the first one on the floor for a loose ball. If it gives you any piece of mind, Frank Vogel immediately benched him after the foul I'm talking about. I agree with him benching him and I would probably do the same. The Pacers are physical but they're not about injuring people and the coach made it clear he was unhappy with the play. --- By the way, I'm too lazy to edit the post but I just remembered the play. It wasn't the Warriors, it was the Raptors. I remembered because it was Jonas Val-something who got up holding his wrist after Hansbrough wrapped him up and threw him to the floor. It wasn't a basketball play at all and it was disgusting. So I get the dislike for Hansbrough.

Edited April 23, 2013 by frizzledizzle

[BrazilianHawk]

Some fouls were slaps on the wrist and weren't very hard but there were a few where he got rocked. He made a couple of circus shots while being fouled hard to get the and one. There was one foul where he was blatantly slammed and he wasn't the only one on the receiving end of some hard fouls. Hansbrough hit the floor hard and Stephenson was wrapped up and dropped. That's three times/three different guys that found themselves with their body smacking the hardwood. The Pacers were viewed as the physical team going into the series but they weren't the one committing hard fouls. The commentator even made a comment on one of the fouls that the Hawks got a two for one when two different guys fouled a Pacer as he drove to the basket. I'm not saying PG didn't get the benefit of the doubt on some of the calls but he was given some hard fouls. You did have some guys committing dumb fouls on jumpshots though.

Anyways... hopefully you're referring to clean hard fouls because I saw a couple of people say they hope David West was injured when he came up limping and another person specifically say they hope he broke his ankle. That's just messed up imo. Everyone I had talked to on here leading up to the game was cool and they told me I should check out the chat because it's funny. I didn't really find that funny. People hoping for injuries to other human beings over a game need to take a hard look in the mirror. I get what you're saying that you want to make someone think twice before driving to the basket but I was taken aback when people were hoping for injuries. That was pretty lowbrow.

Of course I mean no injury to any of the players. I just hope the Hawks will try and avoid having a single Pacer shoot more free throws than the entire Hawks team.

There were of course some hard fouls by the Hawks (and a couple by Tyler and other Pacers in the paint that were never whistled) but the touch fouls called on Atlanta were simply ridiculous. So, if the Pacers are going to get the calls, at least make them earn it.

[Diesel]

Some fouls were slaps on the wrist and weren't very hard but there were a few where he got rocked. He made a couple of circus shots while being fouled hard to get the and one. There was one foul where he was blatantly slammed and he wasn't the only one on the receiving end of some hard fouls. Hansbrough hit the floor hard and Stephenson was wrapped up and dropped. That's three times/three different guys that found themselves with their body smacking the hardwood. The Pacers were viewed as the physical team going into the series but they weren't the one committing hard fouls. The commentator even made a comment on one of the fouls that the Hawks got a two for one when two different guys fouled a Pacer as he drove to the basket. I'm not saying PG didn't get the benefit of the doubt on some of the calls but he was given some hard fouls. You did have some guys committing dumb fouls on jumpshots though.

Anyways... hopefully you're referring to clean hard fouls because I saw a couple of people say they hope David West was injured when he came up limping and another person specifically say they hope he broke his ankle. That's just messed up imo. Everyone I had talked to on here leading up to the game was cool and they told me I should check out the chat because it's funny. I didn't really find that funny. People hoping for injuries to other human beings over a game need to take a hard look in the mirror. I get what you're saying that you want to make someone think twice before driving to the basket but I was taken aback when people were hoping for injuries. That was pretty lowbrow.

I'm not with that or even with the comment made previous. What I'm with (and this is every series) is for refs to call the games straight down the line with no star treatment. I think a few teams got calls to keep games close this weekend. Namely the Boston Celtics.

Javie also mentioned that refs get paid more the farther they ref into the playoffs. SO there's a mutal benefit that they get for making a series interesting.

I think the litmus test will be how many refs who ref these boring series will be reffing in the 2nd round and so on?