Former Hawk JJ fails to advance . .

[TheNorthCydeRises]

when joe johnson jumpshot isnt dropping he is virtually useless. He doesnt impact the game in other ways. He doesnt attack the rim and get to the line. You dont see him hustling on defense and diving for lose balls and creating extra possessions for the team.

He plays too cool and with zero passion.

Gerald wallace is much less skilled then joe but had a MUCH bigger impact on the game cause he plays with so much passion.

Its crazy To think this guy use to be our best player and suppose to be our leading our team. That is why we were such a flop in the playoffs.

Well he wasn't here this year, and we still flopped . . . at home . . . in the same fashion.

So who is/was the blame for that?

[Sothron]

I agree. No excuses. JJ should've went to the post or try to draw fouls. Settling for those 3s were the kiss of death tonight. He would've been better off taking fadeaway 18 footers than those 3s.

I also think Noah developed his way earlier in the season so he's longer time to heal from it. JJ developed it late in the season. Also kinda laughable to compare a center going up against a soft assignment in Lopez versus a guy expected to be the best wing defender on a team.

[Eddielives]

So plantar fasciitis caused Joe to miss all those jumpshots while Noah played through the pain and excelled? Yes, please more. And please tell us how we all just wanted this to happen and were denying it. I love people who have super powers and can read others minds.

[MaceCase]

This is what people wanted to see all the time, even when they were denying it. I knew this from the jump.

It's OK though. I just hope they can get it out of their system tonight. I'm more worried about this team, and if we'll ever even get back to playoff level, let alone championship level.

The future is very uncertain for us. And I reserve judgement to see if Ferry can build this thing right.

You can't possibly be concerned about this team nor claim you are reserving judgement on Ferry because you were (are) amongst his BIGGEST detractors for moving Joe. Despite all of the mounting evidence on his declining play and that contract not getting any smaller you speak of the team not getting to "playoff or championship" level as if Joe's deal AND play wouldn't of had a negative affect on that.

I also think Noah developed his way earlier in the season so he's longer time to heal from it. JJ developed it late in the season. Also kinda laughable to compare a center going up against a soft assignment in Lopez versus a guy expected to be the best wing defender on a team.

You must be confusing Gerald Wallace for Joe. He showed up. Lopez too.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So plantar fasciitis caused Joe to miss all those jumpshots while Noah played through the pain and excelled? Yes, please more. And please tell us how we all just wanted this to happen and were denying it. I love people who have super powers and can read others minds.

Of course you all wanted this. Why are people commenting in this thread, talking about they secretly hoped and knew the nets would fail, if you didn't want it?

Seeing the Nets advance to the 2nd round, would be somewhat of a validation that they did the right thing.

Seeing the Nets not only get bounced in the 1st round, but also see JJ crash and burn in Game 7, is a scenario that delights people around here. It validates that it was the Hawks who did the right thing, while the Nets have to question how they can improve with their contract situations.

Why deny this?

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Makes you love Danny Ferry even more! IFWTSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I also think Noah developed his way earlier in the season so he's longer time to heal from it. JJ developed it late in the season. Also kinda laughable to compare a center going up against a soft assignment in Lopez versus a guy expected to be the best wing defender on a team.

It's no excuse for JJ, because while he wasn't playing like an All-Star in the series, he wasn't shooting bad in the series at all, with the exception of his 3 point shot not falling. He was averaging 16.3 ppg on 46% FG . . but only shooting 30% 3FG.

He was 4 - 21 from three in the past 4 games, so that was a clear sign that his shot was off. If that was because he was hurting, OK. That means take shots that are closer to the rim, even if you have to work for shots from 16 - 20 feet. Just abandon the 3 ball, because he was not making that shot.

But he turns around and jacks up 9 threes, with some of them being missed badly. If the foot injury caused him issues with the lift on his shot, he shouldn't have been taking all of those 3s.

He needed to play a smarter game, and he didn't. That's why the injury ( while an excuse ), really can't be one.

[Eddielives]

Of course you all wanted this. Why are people commenting in this thread, talking about they secretly hoped and knew the nets would fail, if you didn't want it?

Seeing the Nets advance to the 2nd round, would be somewhat of a validation that they did the right thing.

Seeing the Nets not only get bounced in the 1st round, but also see JJ crash and burn in Game 7, is a scenario that delights people around here. It validates that it was the Hawks who did the right thing, while the Nets have to question how they can improve with their contract situations.

Why deny this?

Without completely rehashing the JJ, nets, Ferry, threads all over again, allow me to summarize. Most people, like myself, who were not disappointed in Joe getting moved were appreciative of the good things Joe did while he was here but were ecstatic to see his contract actually being taken from us because it was deemed by any logical human being as being untradeable. And there were people like yourself and a few others who criticized us for daring to criticize Joe in any way and act as if our new gm was making any kind of a smart move. So I ask you, who is living in denial here? It is you my friend and those who continue to show zero humility by refusing to admit that getting rid of Joe was a brilliant move. Seeing him fail again is only icing on the argumentative cake that was already rich and delicious with the ingredients of the facts of Joe's game for the past several years. This is good stuff though. I wouldn't mind a little more tonight before I retire.

Edited May 5, 2013 by Eddielives

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You can't possibly be concerned about this team nor claim you are reserving judgement on Ferry because you were (are) amongst his BIGGEST detractors for moving Joe. Despite all of the mounting evidence on his declining play and that contract not getting any smaller you speak of the team not getting to "playoff or championship" level as if Joe's deal AND play wouldn't of had a negative affect on that.

You must be confusing Gerald Wallace for Joe. He showed up. Lopez too.

I was one of one of the biggest detractors for moving Joe . . . for NOTHING.

I'm the one that when the deal was being negotiated, wanted at least Gerald Wallace, Marshon Brooks, and a 1st round pick. It was most of YOU guys who were cool with moving JJ for 5 bags of pork rinds and a glass of dirty water.

There was no "mounting evidence" that JJ's play was in decline. The only thing that was declining, was his usage.

He had one of his most efficient shooting years of his career last year, while making a ton of clutch and game winning shots. What happened last year, was Smith deciding that he wanted to be "the man", so he started taking the most shots . . but deferred to JJ in late game situations. Drew, and to a certain extent, JJ, let him do just that.

JJ's overall numbers were down because other players had increased roles on the team. This season, he's played 1/2 of the year with nagging injuries, limiting his effectiveness. but he still came up big time in certain games, including a few games in these playoffs.

But he didn't get it done tonight. Foot injury or not, it's no excuse for going 2 - 14 FG, when he's jacking up 9 threes.

[Eddielives]

It's no excuse for JJ, because while he wasn't playing like an All-Star in the series, he wasn't shooting bad in the series at all, with the exception of his 3 point shot not falling. He was averaging 16.3 ppg on 46% FG . . but only shooting 30% 3FG.

He was 4 - 21 from three in the past 4 games, so that was a clear sign that his shot was off. If that was because he was hurting, OK. That means take shots that are closer to the rim, even if you have to work for shots from 16 - 20 feet. Just abandon the 3 ball, because he was not making that shot.

But he turns around and jacks up 9 threes, with some of them being missed badly. If the foot injury caused him issues with the lift on his shot, he shouldn't have been taking all of those 3s.

He needed to play a smarter game, and he didn't. That's why the injury ( while an excuse ), really can't be one.

Let's remember last years playoffs against Boston too. Joe was healthy and was completely outplayed by a hobbling Paul Pierce. Remember that anybody? I sure do!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Without completely rehashing the JJ, nets, Ferry, threads all over again, allow me to summarize. Most people, like myself, who were not disappointed in Joe getting moved were appreciative of the good things Joe did while he was here but were ecstatic to see his contract actually being taken from us because it was deemed by any logical human being as being untradeable. And there were people like yourself and a few others who criticized us for daring to criticize Joe in any way and act as if our new gm was making any kind of a smart move. So I ask you, who is living in denial here? It is you my friend and those who continue to show zero humility by refusing to admit that getting rid of Joe was a brilliant move. Seeing him fail again is only icing on the argumentative cake that was already rich and delicious with the ingredients of the facts of Joe's game for the past several years. This is good stuff though. I wouldn't mind a little more tonight before I retire.

Eddie . . . most people did not like Joe Johnson. That's why the dude, despite not being asked to be traded from Atlanta, gets BOOED when he comes back . . . like he was the one that left the Hawks or something.

Why would a fan base boo a guy who got traded away, if he didn't force his way out?

When Jamal Crawford came back to ATL in a Clippers uniform, there were no boos for Jamal. If/when Marvin comes back in a Utah ( or some other uniform ), there aren't going to be any boos for Marvin. But that crowd had no problem booing JJ twice, when he came back to ATL . . . because they never liked him, despite what little he may have done here.

My issue with Ferry is that you don't trade a guy like JJ for scraps. Ferry took a deal, got stared in the face by the Nets, and accepted the bare minimum they could give. Thank God that Houston traded for Harden, and made the playoffs. If not for that, we wouldn't have anything to show from that deal, but a bunch of cap space and some slim hope that CP3 and Howard would want to play here . . even though they've NEVER said anything about playing in ATL.

But we'll see if Ferry can pull off a miracle. If he can't, he'll be forced to build the team the hard way. If that's the case, we all may be on the outside looking in, when it comes to the playoffs.

People can celebrate Ferry and call him a genius or brilliant, but I reserve the right to be skeptical that he can build that winner he seeks here, until I see the type of moves he'll make this summer.

[frizzledizzle]

The alternative for Brooklyn was to move to that city with Damian Lilliard and a bunch of scrubs as their best players . . and not make the playoffs.

Any team in Brooklyn's situation who had a chance to significantly improve by spending, would've done the same thing they did. Charlotte, Sacramento, Detroit, New Orleans, and Cleveland would've all done the same thing . . . if it meant going from the bottom of the barrel, to the middle of the pack.

Brooklyn had the biggest improvement out of anybody in the league this year. They simply aren't mentally tough enough ( despite having the talent ), to overcome a more mentally tough and physical team.

If you don't think that teams don't have to spend to win, you better look around and see who is left in the playoffs.

First of all, Damian Lillard is amazing.

Second of all, I wonder how much of that improvement had to do with the addition of Joe Johnson. It's not like the Hawks dropped off that much without him and more importantly, Brook Lopez only played 5 games last year and Gerald Wallace only played 16 with the Nets.I only bring that up because I know what you're getting at and you're insinuating Joe Johnson should be credited for this great improvement. When really, Brook Lopez is far more important and Gerald Wallace wasn't really on the team last year either.

Edited May 5, 2013 by frizzledizzle

[MaceCase]

I was one of one of the biggest detractors for moving Joe . . . for NOTHING.

I'm the one that when the deal was being negotiated, wanted at least Gerald Wallace, Marshon Brooks, and a 1st round pick. It was most of YOU guys who were cool with moving JJ for 5 bags of pork rinds and a glass of dirty water.

Answer me this: do you think Joe improved his trade value in his season with the Nets?

Okay, time's up. Also Gerald Wallace was a free agent, he wasn't being included in any deals so I don't know why you continue on that nonsense (also, a 3rd quarter surge aside, he was chopped liver most the season and is on a similarly cap killing new contract) and then Marshon Brooks hasn't really done much considering that he's had Joe and Stack play ahead of him most the season so why are these being touted as deal breakers (which they weren't)?

And then yes, we did get the first, incredible cap space (which is of no value to you, 100 million dollar payrolls for 1st round exits are preferable) and oh yes, the right to swap picks with a 84 million dollar team that just demonstrated they are maxed out at a first round exit.

There was no "mounting evidence" that JJ's play was in decline. The only thing that was declining, was his usage.

He had one of his most efficient shooting years of his career last year, while making a ton of clutch and game winning shots. What happened last year, was Smith deciding that he wanted to be "the man", so he started taking the most shots . . but deferred to JJ in late game situations. Drew, and to a certain extent, JJ, let him do just that.

JJ's overall numbers were down because other players had increased roles on the team. This season, he's played 1/2 of the year with nagging injuries, limiting his effectiveness. but he still came up big time in certain games, including a few games in these playoffs.

Of course only you would not see a player being unable to snatch a larger reign of the offense (while Horford was down, no less) and watching others step up as a decline........while he's being payed superstar money (a point you keep overlooking) of course. No, there's no amount of evidence being displayed in a man being a $90 million 3rd option and in the playoffs (where some think the bucks are earned) without Al or Josh or both he displayed an inability to take over unless 29 points on 28 shots counts.

This downward trend only continued into Brooklyn. I don't want to hear about injuries, he not only had 3 other players that took (not could, actually took) pressure off of him while "having a low impact game that is guaranteed to age well" and still ended up with the same nagging injuries he experienced in Atlanta. If it's not plantar fascitis it's "loose bodies" in his elbow or tendonitis or infected follicle or sprained wrist, etc. Injuries are not new to him. Just because he plays through them (even at the detriment of his team) it doesn't make them any less prevalent and it's unlikely that we'll see a decline in their frequency considering that he still ended up banged up despite the perfect possible situation for him with that low post scoring C, playmaking PG, and high level defensive wing.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

First of all, Damian Lillard is amazing.

Second of all, I wonder how much of that improvement had to do with the addition of Joe Johnson. It's not like the Hawks dropped off that much without him and more importantly, Brook Lopez only played 5 games last year and Gerald Wallace only played 16 with the Nets. I only bring that up because I know what you're getting at and you're insinuating Joe Johnson should be credited for this great improvement. When really, Brook Lopez is far more important and Gerald Wallace wasn't really on the team last year either.

No . . what I'm getting at, is that the Nets had made the decision to spend whatever it took to put a winner out on the floor.

They had made the decision earlier in the year to trade for Wallace, so that Deron could at least have someone decent to play with for the rest of 2012. Most everyone thought that after Anthony Davis, the draft would be lackluster at best. No one saw Damian Lilliard as being some supestar in the draft. Here was his nbadraft.net profile

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/damian-lillard

So after they traded away the lottery pick, here was their offseason goals:

1) get Dwight Howard

2) re-sign Deron Williams

3) re-sign Brook Lopez, if they couldn't get Dwight

4) go out and find SOMEONE to market to Brooklyn, if the above 3 plans failed

When they still hadn't secured Dwight, and Deron was being courted hard by Dallas, they started to explore contingency plans. If Ferry called the Nets, or if the Nets called Ferry first, the fact was that the Nets wanted Joe Johnson. And Deron Williams even said that signing Joe Johnson had a major impact in him re-signing with Brooklyn.

Once they obtained JJ and Deron, they re-signed Wallace . . then Lopez.

They made the biggest improvement in the league last year, because they went ALL OUT to assemble the best team they possibly could. And part of that plan, was bringing in Joe Johnson.

So no matter how much people want to credit or discredit JJ for the improvement the Nets made this year, the fact is that HE was part of that master plan.

I still say what the Nets did, is much better than losing Deron, not going after JJ, and maybe only having Lilliard, Lopez, and Wallace in the mix as your best players. If that's the case, that team doesn't make the playoffs. And it would've been the 5th year in a row that they didn't make the playoffs.

How can a franchise who is losing, be criticized for going all out to assemble a playoff level team? The fact that they lost only means that they need a little more to become a better playoff team. It doesn't mean that the team is a failure because they spent all of that money.

Edited May 5, 2013 by northcyde

[benhillboy]

I can respect Sothron and North representing for their boy. I'm wondering where Dies is on this particular matter.

Edited May 5, 2013 by benhillboy

[AUhawksfan]

I was a big fan of Joe while he was here but the fact of the matter is the guy was highly overvalued and just not worth it when he got his new contract. Getting rid of him - even for nothing - was a good move if only for financial sake. No good team gets strapped with a contract like that unless the guys is a franchise player and Joe is not that. Otherwise you'll be the 90s version of the Knicks.

I'm tired of the injury excuses because so many guys step up and play with pain and put up good numbers despite this. At the end of the day Joe just doesn't step it up consistently in the playoffs. Don't get me wrong he can be clutch and has had his share of big playoff games (a couple against the Celtics, game 7 against Miami) but the bigger picture is that he doesn't consistently show up in the postseason. I think we saw that today and how his inability to take it to the hole hurt him. He should take a page out of Lebron's book. He won a championship last year because he finally started using his strength and playing inside rather than constantly hoist jumpers.

[High5]

Northcyde...give it up, dude. Joe is an albatross. Everyone knew this, but Brooklyn was desperate to shoot to the top now instead of later. Ferry made a great trade and Brooklyn's gamble failed. Big time.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Northcyde...give it up, dude. Joe is an albatross. Everyone knew this, but Brooklyn was desperate to shoot to the top now instead of later. Ferry made a great trade and Brooklyn's gamble failed. Big time.

Like Ferry . . . Brooklyn still has time to see if the deal actually failed or not.

Lopez had his best season ever.

Deron was injured the 1st half of the year, but played like an All-Star to end the year

JJ, before the foot injury started to limit his production, was making game winners all over the place.

So the question with the Nets will be . . is this the best this team can be, or will another year of playing with each other see them be an even better squad next year?

Same goes with the Hawks. If the Hawks can use that cap space to construct a much better team that competes at a higher level come playoff time in 2 - 3 years, Ferry will be hailed as a great GM.

If the Hawks miss the playoff the next 2 or 3 years, I don't see how anyone can heap a bunch of praise on Ferry, just because he jettisoned a bad contract like JJ's.

Like I said, I still don't see why people act like Brooklyn did something so horrible and stupid, when they are the same franchise that won just 12 games in the 2009 - 10 season, and assembled a team that posted the 5th best record in franchise history ( 2nd best since they've been in the NBA ).

They ran into a team that was mentally tougher than them, and they lost. We'll see next year if the same thing happens . . or they regress as a team . . or if they get better as a team.

[High5]

The Nets went all in and broke the bank on players at their peaks or on the decline. When you make a move like that, 49 regular seasons wins and a miserable first round exit = complete failure. Their room for improvement is extremely limited. They're more likely to fall than rise in the EC standings next season. Ferry could miss on every move for the rest of his career and it wouldn't change the fact that it was a great trade.

[Ruckus]

This thread is silly. Ain't nobody got time for that. We made it as far this year as last year with your so called "pork rinds". That's where the argument ends.