Former Hawk JJ fails to advance . .

[Admin]

like i said harris could easily replace that point production

There's a lot more to it than points. There's JJs defense, his ability to hit clutch baskets from time to time, his pure size, the fact that Devin is always injured, etc. Devin is a quality backup but he shouldn't be starting for a playoff team and certainly not at SG.

[macdaddy]

There's a lot more to it than points. There's JJs defense, his ability to hit clutch baskets from time to time, his pure size, the fact that Devin is always injured, etc. Devin is a quality backup but he shouldn't be starting for a playoff team and certainly not at SG.

I guess the question is JJ+Marvin >, =, < Harris + Korver.

[Admin]

That's a tough one as we were clearly better defensively with Marvin and JJ but we are probably as good if not slightly better offensively with Harris and Korver. The difference is that you can defend Korver and keep him from even getting the ball let alone getting him open 3s whereas you cannot stop JJ from getting the ball or getting shots that he wants. Not that those shots always go in but at least you've got a chance. Harris is a talented player and as a backup PG would be perfect but he's a major liability at SG on both ends due to his lack of size. The trump card in favor of our current guys is the massive difference in salary that allows us 15 million in extra players.

[Kimsey]

Nothing will hamper the hope and excitement when Joe got traded. Almost the same feeling when Obama got elected with the promise of change a coming. Still waiting on that but we are much better position as a franchise since BK botched our destiny.

Loads of cap space with the 18th pick and the right to switch first rounders with the Nets pick in a later draft (curious to see how that actually works) is masterful work by Ferry.

[benhillboy]

We all know Joe could care less about the fans or media bashing him, declining skills, winning, or what the Hawks do without him. He's laughing hysterically all the way to the bank. He got championships in strip club monies spent, jewelry bought, and monster trucks revved. Just give me one of his game checks and I'm good.

Edited May 6, 2013 by benhillboy

[DJlaysitup]

...we are (in a) much better position as a franchise since BK botched our destiny.

Loads of cap space with the 18th pick and the right to switch first rounders with the Nets pick in a later draft (curious to see how that actually works) is masterful work by Ferry.

Agreed Kimsey. What we have to remember is that BK was responsible for 75% of the whole JJ disaster. He got it in his head that JJ could be a lead dog - even play PG - and he was too stubborn to back off. He kept throwing more and more in the trade "kitty" until we finally got Joe.

Remembering back...the whole thing started to fall apart almost immediately. It took about a dozen games for them to realize that JJ had no business playing PG.

I certainly can't blame JJ for wanting to be "the man" and for saying as how he could play PG...pro athletes are always overconfident in their actual abilities.

Without going into it too deeply, I mostly blame BK...then the ASG added the icing to the cake by giving JJ a max contract.

Oh well...he's Brooklyn's problem now but I can't take much glee from that. We traded a bunch for him to come in here and do great things - only to end up basically giving him away for cap space and getting out from under his terrible contract.

If the Brooklyn owner is as rich as they say - and it's within the rules - I wouldn't be surprised if they amnesty-ed him. At this point his game is nowhere near the price they are paying him.

As Archer said on 790 today (Archer is actually an NBA fan) - the biggest problem the NBA has (that the NFL doesn't have) is guarranteed contracts.

[Admin]

Agreed Kimsey. What we have to remember is that BK was responsible for 75% of the whole JJ disaster. He got it in his head that JJ could be a lead dog - even play PG - and he was too stubborn to back off. He kept throwing more and more in the trade "kitty" until we finally got Joe.

Remembering back...the whole thing started to fall apart almost immediately. It took about a dozen games for them to realize that JJ had no business playing PG.

I certainly can't blame JJ for wanting to be "the man" and for saying as how he could play PG...pro athletes are always overconfident in their actual abilities.

Without going into it too deeply, I mostly blame BK...then the ASG added the icing to the cake by giving JJ a max contract.

Oh well...he's Brooklyn's problem now but I can't take much glee from that. We traded a bunch for him to come in here and do great things - only to end up basically giving him away for cap space and getting out from under his terrible contract.

If the Brooklyn owner is as rich as they say - and it's within the rules - I wouldn't be surprised if they amnesty-ed him. At this point his game is nowhere near the price they are paying him.

As Archer said on 790 today (Archer is actually an NBA fan) - the biggest problem the NBA has (that the NFL doesn't have) is guarranteed contracts.

None of the big contracts on the Nets can have the amnesty clause used on them. They're stuck with Joe and the rest of the big contracts.

[Diesel]

With Joe and Zaza I think we beat the Pacers and would put up a hell of a fight with the Knicks so yeah I can see us possibly in the ECF this year.But Diesel that is some serious BS you're pouring out about the refs keeping Brooklyn from advancing! You actually think that Stern wanted to see them eliminated that quickly? They're a serious money draw in that market and while sure the Bulls are as well, there's no way in hell Stern had the refs give the series to the Bulls.

I agree. However, I watched that game with 3 OTs closely. The game was out of contention and the refs started giving calls to Chicago. Maybe not trying to make Brooklyn lose, but definitely to keep the game close. I think it's a tragedy in sports everytime the refs use their whistles to make a game more entertaining.

[Diesel]

Agreed Kimsey. What we have to remember is that BK was responsible for 75% of the whole JJ disaster. He got it in his head that JJ could be a lead dog - even play PG - and he was too stubborn to back off. He kept throwing more and more in the trade "kitty" until we finally got Joe.

Remembering back...the whole thing started to fall apart almost immediately. It took about a dozen games for them to realize that JJ had no business playing PG.

I certainly can't blame JJ for wanting to be "the man" and for saying as how he could play PG...pro athletes are always overconfident in their actual abilities.

Without going into it too deeply, I mostly blame BK...then the ASG added the icing to the cake by giving JJ a max contract.

Oh well...he's Brooklyn's problem now but I can't take much glee from that. We traded a bunch for him to come in here and do great things - only to end up basically giving him away for cap space and getting out from under his terrible contract.

If the Brooklyn owner is as rich as they say - and it's within the rules - I wouldn't be surprised if they amnesty-ed him. At this point his game is nowhere near the price they are paying him.

As Archer said on 790 today (Archer is actually an NBA fan) - the biggest problem the NBA has (that the NFL doesn't have) is guarranteed contracts.

I actually like guaranteed contracts. It makes GMs work. Football GMs are not responsible for anything. They can promise the moon and the sky and 2 years down the road, they don't have to stick with it.

[DJlaysitup]

None of the big contracts on the Nets can have the amnesty clause used on them. They're stuck with Joe and the rest of the big contracts.

Haha!...well...better them than us

[TheNorthCydeRises]

You guys sound so bitter. Sound like some kids. Joe gave us his prime years and started our playoff run, you guys r happy he didn't advance?Seriously? Joe came here when no one wanted to and still don't. Management gave him that contract he didn't ask for it. Is his play worth is contract? No, but don't bash him a great former Hawk.We need to be focused on our current group of bums who just got knocked out the playoffs.

Most of them don't care though. He's viewed as a failure in their eyes, instead of a guy who actually DID give us a glimmer of hope. Most of them wouldn't even consider him to be a "great Hawk". That's why I have no problem calling some in the fan base out when it came to JJ. They can pretend that they liked him, but 70% of the fan base didn't.

Who disrespects a person that they like?

[DJlaysitup]

I actually like guaranteed contracts. It makes GMs work. Football GMs are not responsible for anything. They can promise the moon and the sky and 2 years down the road, they don't have to stick with it.

Yeah D...I can see it either way. Part of me wants to see more hustle and an easier way for young "up-and-comers" to replace the old worn out guys who are just showing up and collecting their checks.

On the other side of the coin - who knows - doing away with guarranteed contracts might just concentrate too much power in the hands of the Owners/G-Ms/Coaches. I could see that being counter-productive. Heck you might end up with so much hustle (to keep the coach happy and the paychecks coming) that the games would all end up like 1960's Hockey games except there would be no gloves to drop .

Tough call....maybe a middle ground could be found....some sort of partial guarrantee with a %age buyout.

[DJlaysitup]

Most of them don't care though. He's viewed as a failure in their eyes, instead of a guy who actually DID give us a glimmer of hope. Most of them wouldn't even consider him to be a "great Hawk". That's why I have no problem calling some in the fan base out when it came to JJ. They can pretend that they liked him, but 70% of the fan base didn't.

Personally I lay almost no blame at the feet of JJ...I lay it at the feet of BK and the ASG for being poor talent evaluators. It's as obvious as the nose on your face. They made similar mistakes with Marvin, Chillz, and Shelden. They were a train wreck. (and we still got the ASG)

Just based upon talent and production though - I couldn't call JJ a "great Hawk"....I would say pretty good.

[Sothron]

I sincerely can not believe this thread is still going. No one on this site loves Joe more than I do and I was ecstatic when we traded him. That salary was going to keep us on the playoff treadmill for years. Now we have HOPE.

[capstone21]

I have always been a Joe fan and feel bad for him that things did not work out as well as hoped.He is a quality player but he is vastly overpaid. His trade has opened things up for us but he is not enemy. He was the main reason to making our team legitimate again after years of being an embarrassment.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Okay so what do you mean when you say people didn't like Joe? You mean his game, him personally, or what? If you are equating criticizing his game or booing him with personal hate then you are asserting your own interpretation of how you feel when you hear him not being praised onto other people's mindset. That is just plain ignorant. Joe was vanilla, plain grits, toast with no jelly boring as a person. Whether he strongarmed his way into his contract doesn't matter. He took the money to be the man and let us down big time. This is a fact. Now you can take this and spin it your way to make you feel better by defending the guy against his own hole he dug with the fanbase in general by choosing to look at his tenure here through rose-colored glasses. But your continued defense of him is the only real evidence any of us have to go on here to fairly assume you just don't look at the guy with any amount of scrutiny whatsoever. That is called cognitive dissonance.

And as for Ferry pulling off miracles, he already did by getting some sucker to take Joe. And you language is very indicative that you are very pessimistic about what hasn't even been done yet. So here you are making yourself out to clearly be a sourpuss still about Joe and about the Hawks future. What a fan!

No sir. What's "plain ignorant" is the fact that you won't even admit that people in this fan base did not like JJ. I mean dang, you listed the very reasons why most didn't like him.

- vanilla type of play

- boring personality

- took the biggest contract possible

- let "us" down big time

Those are the perceptions of those of you who didn't like JJ. But in your eyes, the 6 All-Star appearances mean nothing. The playoff games that Hawks DID win with him on the team, mean nothing. The 5 consecutive playoff appearances ( when we had missed the playoffs 8 straight years . . and only won 13 games the year before he became a Hawk ) mean nothing.

The guy ( who if Josh Smith doesn't come back ) that is the #6 scorer in franchise history and the #5 assist man in franchise history, can't even come back to ATL because fans like yourself didn't like him because he wasn't a superstar . . or because he wasn't flashy . . or because he was just to boring of a guy . . or because he couldn't get us past the 2nd round ( like any other star player in the Atlanta Hawk era has ever done that ).

No sir, I'm the one who will give credit to a guy who is undoubtedly one of the greatest Atlanta Hawk players of all time, even if he wasn't a superstar by NBA standards.

Fans like yourself will sit up and boo that dude,and act like he was Mario West.

[capstone21]

No sir. What's "plain ignorant" is the fact that you won't even admit that people in this fan base did not like JJ. I mean dang, you listed the very reasons why most didn't like him. - vanilla type of play- boring personality- took the biggest contract possible- let "us" down big time Those are the perceptions of those of you who didn't like JJ. But in your eyes, the 6 All-Star appearances mean nothing. The playoff games that Hawks DID win with him on the team, mean nothing. The 5 consecutive playoff appearances ( when we had missed the playoffs 8 straight years . . and only won 13 games the year before he became a Hawk ) mean nothing. The guy ( who if Josh Smith doesn't come back ) that is the #6 scorer in franchise history and the #5 assist man in franchise history, can't even come back to ATL because fans like yourself didn't like him because he wasn't a superstar . . or because he wasn't flashy . . or because he was just to boring of a guy . . or because he couldn't get us past the 2nd round ( like any other star player in the Atlanta Hawk era has ever done that ). No sir, I'm the one who will give credit to a guy who is undoubtedly one of the greatest Atlanta Hawk players of all time, even if he wasn't a superstar by NBA standards. Fans like yourself will sit up and boo that dude,and act like he was Mario West.

I miss having JJ in a Hawks uniform.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Everybody likes to focus on game 7. Go back a few games. The triple overtime game. CJ Watson and the refs did a good job of making sure that the nets would not advance. Moreovrer Who the hell was to guard Joakim Noah? He looked like a freakin allstar out there. Just watch.. Bulls lay down for Heat. Sweep.

LOL . . Nate the Great has too much heart to let that team get swept.

As for Brooklyn, their frontline, outside of Reggie Evans, got exposed as the soft players they were. Lopez ended up looking like he had a good statline in Game 7, but most Nets fans were heated at him because Noah thoroughly outplayed him.

The ironic thing about JJ, is that right before Game 6, he said something to the effect that he's just a "decoy" out on the court, and limited to a spot-up shooter ( because of his injury ). He then goes out and has a good game in Game 6.

So when he tried to be that "spot up shooter" in Game 7, it backfired on him. He made a mistake in hanging out by that 3 point line. Even if he couldn't blow by people, he should've looked to get closer shots. . Him shooting wasn't the problem, because his team wasn't scoring. But camping out by that 3 point line was a calculated mistake by him.

Can't keep shooting those type of shots, when you're ice cold.

[Admin]

I sincerely can not believe this thread is still going.

It's amazing considering how hypocritical the mods are here about what gets allowed in the main forum...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Some of you dudes, sans Northcyde said we weren't going to be ish without Joe. You know who you are, the ole trusty search engine tells all (squawk search engine is better than google, no lie).

The team actually scored a point better than Joe from last season. We would have beaten indy with Zaza I can say without blinking. We really got nothing from the Jersey faction and gave the Pacers a series when we really should have been swept. I wish Joe well except for when he said he will work harder than he ever has for the Nets, paraphrasing.

The team last year was missing Horford for most of the year. And the team last year was a far better defensive team that this year's team. Before Horford went down, we had already beaten Miami and Chicago ( with Rose ).

The question about last year is what could we have been, if Horford had come back and got a few weeks of games under his belt before the playoffs?

As far as this year's team, replacing Korver with JJ ( and having Horford back healthy ) puts us anywhere from 2nd to 4th in the East. Do we make it out of the 2nd round?

If we played Miami . . . no.

If we played the Knicks . . it would've been interesting.

But that's water under the bridge now. It didn't happen, so we move on.