READ THIS! Apparently CP3 & D12 have talked about playing together since 08!

[coachx]

How u think I would feel if I left my hometown of ATL and watched as some of my best friends brought home the championship for my city right after I left to chase after the money?? I COULDN'T live with myself !!! Horford is out of here for there to be any chance of CP3 and Howard coming... Howard was my best man after all I he ain't coming here unless I'm on da team you can bet dat.

If Atlanta renounces their Bird Rights on all free agents and waives option years on Stephenson and Scott then the franchise would be left at $18,708,800 of salary. Assuming a $60,000,000 salary cap that leaves $41,291,200 of salary cap room.

If Howard and Paul would settle for $16 mill and Smith would settle for $9,291,200 then the franchise could keep Horford.

Paul ($16mill)

Jenkins ($1.2588 mill) / Lou as 6th man ($5.255 mill)

Smith ($9.2912 mill)

Horford ($12 mill)

Howard ($16 mill)

Total salary = $59,804,200 (right at the expected $60 mill salary cap)

We would have all of the league exceptions to try to bring back Korver and ZaZa or use the exceptions on other free agents. Atlanta would become the destination franchise for league minimum contracts guys like Jamison and Ivan Johnson, for example. Plus there are two 1st round picks to add depth.

Paul / Lou

Jenkins / Lou

Smith / Korver

Horford / Ivan

Howard / ZaZa

Add two 1st round picks and some veterean minimum contracts and / or 2 cheap 2nd round contracts.

Hope there is a round table meeting of the sacrifice to make it happen. It could happen with or without Smith depending on the sacrifices they are willing to make. The chances are slim but its not impossible.

Edited May 7, 2013 by coachx

[capstone21]

If Atlanta renounces their Bird Rights on all free agents and waives option years on Stephenson and Scott then the franchise would be left at $18,708,800 of salary. Assuming a $60,000,000 salary cap that leaves $41,291,200 of salary cap room.

If Howard and Paul would settle for $16 mill and Smith would settle for $9,291,200 then the franchise could keep Horford.

Paul ($16mill)

Jenkins ($1.2588 mill) / Lou as 6th man ($5.255 mill)

Smith ($9.2912 mill)

Horford ($12 mill)

Howard ($16 mill)

Total salary = $59,804,200 (right at the expected $60 mill salary cap)

We would have all of the league exceptions to try to bring back Korver and ZaZa or use the exceptions on other free agents. Atlanta would become the destination franchise for league minimum contracts guys like Jamison and Ivan Johnson, for example. Plus there are two 1st round picks to add depth.

Paul / Lou

Jenkins / Lou

Smith / Korver

Horford / Ivan

Howard / ZaZa

Add two 1st round picks and some veterean minimum contracts and / or 2 cheap 2nd round contracts.

Hope there is a round table meeting of the sacrifice to make it happen. It could happen with or without Smith depending on the sacrifices they are willing to make. The chances are slim but its not impossible.

...or just not spend 9 million on Smith (since we have a pf) and go look for a real SF.

[coachx]

...or just not spend 9 million on Smith (since we have a pf) and go look for a real SF.

I would too IF HOward was fine coming to Atlanta without Smith being a part of the team.

Then we could give Howard and Paul $18 mill each, instead of making them take a discount at $16 mill each...........

Under that scenerio we have $5 mill under the cap + the MLE and the other leagye exceptions to get a SF and fill out the roster.

Howard and Paul may be tight with Smith.......not sure they're tight enough to give $8 mill each (over a 4 year time period) to play with him though.

[coachx]

coach, don't forget about the minimum roster capholds ($490,180 for each) and our 1st round draft picks. Per Coon, the 1st rounders will cost us $1,348,200 and $1,280,800 (http://www.cbafaq.com/scale2011.htm). With Horf, Lou, Jenks, and 2 1st rounders the minimum roster caphold of (7*$490,180 = $3,431,260) is added on. Once you sign a player, that caphold goes away. But the caphold eats away at the amount you can offer.

If we trust Sham (In Sham We Trust), we have to also account for Jeremy Tyler having $100,000 guaranteed in his final year of his contract. This doesn't take away a caphold or anything, it just eats away at $100,000. So Al ($12,000,000), Lou ($5,225,000), Jenks ($1,258,800), payments ($100,000), draft picks ($2,629,000), and capholds ($3,431,260) put us at $24,644,060 in cap related holds. With a cap projection of $60,000,000, we would have $35,355,940 of available cap space to go spending all willy nilly and whatnot.

Sorry to put a damper on everyone's pipe dream, but someone has to do it. I also enjoy telling little kids that Santa is not real.

(Crystal Ball: we won't sign our draft picks for a while. Not because we are playing hard ball, but because it is customary for draft picks to sign at 120% of their rookie scale amount. We won't actually sign them to 120% of their rookie scale amount until we use up all our cap space since signing them to 120% will take away from our cap space. Leaving them unsigned will give us more cap space for the time being. So once we hit the cap, then we will sign. If we don't do this, then you know we have incompetent morons running the team.)

Thanks for the accuracy.

So bye, bye Josh............unless Howard makes a demand that Josh must stay which virtually forces us to give Horford away in a trade to team way under the cap. Best man in Smith's wedding or not.......I just can't see it coming to that.

So bottom line is that after accounting for the cap holds on 1st round picks and cap holds on empty roster sports the Hawks can keep Horford, Lou, and Jenkins. Then Atlanta could pay Howard and Paul about $17.3 mill each without going over the estimated $60 mill salary cap.

[JTB]

Whatever scenarios you guys come up with at the end of the day EVERYBODY knows that Paul and Howard coming here is the best lineup they could possibly have at this point in their careers. Whether its Paul-Lou-Korver-horford-Howard or Paul-lou-smith-Scott-Howard whatever it's going to be the best lineup they could put theirselves in.The ATL lineups don't matter so much what matters is if they want to come to the ATL but ya know I really don't get it. I don't live in the ATL but I'm 3 hours outside of it and I have been there numerous numerous times...what's so bad about ATL? Rappers seem to make sound like the greatest thing ever!...even other nba players do.It must be ownership but the owners have really changed since ferry has been gm

[Guest]

According to Lou Will's comments in the ajc article, he seems think both Horf and John Jenkins will be here next year. If that's true, then I don't see the Hawks getting Howard, Paul and reupping Smoove. It seems it will have to be two of the three.

Well...they are two of the only three players who are under contract for next season. Now if he offered some insight on Josh.

[thecampster]

coach, don't forget about the minimum roster capholds ($490,180 for each) and our 1st round draft picks. Per Coon, the 1st rounders will cost us $1,348,200 and $1,280,800 (http://www.cbafaq.com/scale2011.htm). With Horf, Lou, Jenks, and 2 1st rounders the minimum roster caphold of (7*$490,180 = $3,431,260) is added on. Once you sign a player, that caphold goes away. But the caphold eats away at the amount you can offer.

If we trust Sham (In Sham We Trust), we have to also account for Jeremy Tyler having $100,000 guaranteed in his final year of his contract. This doesn't take away a caphold or anything, it just eats away at $100,000. So Al ($12,000,000), Lou ($5,225,000), Jenks ($1,258,800), payments ($100,000), draft picks ($2,629,000), and capholds ($3,431,260) put us at $24,644,060 in cap related holds. With a cap projection of $60,000,000, we would have $35,355,940 of available cap space to go spending all willy nilly and whatnot.

Sorry to put a damper on everyone's pipe dream, but someone has to do it. I also enjoy telling little kids that Santa is not real.

(Crystal Ball: we won't sign our draft picks for a while. Not because we are playing hard ball, but because it is customary for draft picks to sign at 120% of their rookie scale amount. We won't actually sign them to 120% of their rookie scale amount until we use up all our cap space since signing them to 120% will take away from our cap space. Leaving them unsigned will give us more cap space for the time being. So once we hit the cap, then we will sign. If we don't do this, then you know we have incompetent morons running the team.)

Perspective to what you are saying here.

If you have Paul, you don't need Teague.

If you have Howard, Scott, Williams, Jenkins all under contract you don't need one and or the other of Smith, Horford, Korver.

If you have two 1st round picks you don't necessarily need certain other players on the roster.

Until you renounce Zaza, Petro, Johnson, Jones, Tolliver, etc your cap hold number is smaller.

All of us on this board say all of these things with confidence when in reality Ferry has a little puzzle on his desk he's trying to piece together which includes players right down to player 13/14/15. It also fits beyond 2013/2014.

So if you see the Hawks fill out the roster right up to the LT this year and get Howard/Paul etc then you can bet there is a buyer in the wings because there is no way the spirit group is planning to be in the LT in 2015/16/17 and beyond.

Edited May 7, 2013 by thecampster

[Admin]

Let me just show a more "reliable way" Howard and Paul could land here.

First, renouncing Josh does create the space necessary with holds and rookie salaries to still sign both. However it doesn't fix the 5 v 4 year contract and 7.5% v 4.5% raise issues.

So assume for a minute you turn the starting PF job over to Scott or draft a PF.

You trade Horford and a 1st rounder to LA relieving some of their cap nightmare in a sign and trade for Howard. You resign Smith. You can now give Howard the max, Josh a fair contract and sign Paul to the max.

Paul/Teague/Williams/

Korver/Jenkins

Smith/Pick

Scott/Johnson

Howard/Filler

Paul - Korver - Smith - Scott - Howard is a very nasty starting 5. Now salaries

Howard and Paul at 34 million total each

Korver at 5

Smith at 14

Scott 1

Your starting 5 is 54 Million - Teague is 4, Williams is 5 and the roster is rounded out with vet min/draft picks.

I am not saying we should do this, I'm just saying this is how you can get both easier. Luring Howard without the 5th year or 7.5% raises probably isn't going to happen...it might but probably not.

One last thing. Al Jefferson, Bynum are out there as well. just saying

LA cannot sign and trade players being over the luxury tax.

[MaceCase]

LA cannot sign and trade players being over the luxury tax.

Well it's actually being above the apron of the lux tax (~74 mil) but then it becomes of a matter of whether they amnesty MWP (likely regardless of Dwight just because of the tax bill) or if the principles that they receive in return from a sign and trade would push them over the apron.

[Admin]

Well it's actually being above the apron of the lux tax (~74 mil) but then it becomes of a matter of whether they amnesty MWP (likely regardless of Dwight just because of the tax bill) or if the principles that they receive in return from a sign and trade would push them over the apron.

Yes that's true, but just saying it's not as simple as Camp was stating it to be. It's actually exactly as someone posted earlier in the thread in regard to the Lakers and what they'd have to do in order to be able to SnT.

[lethalweapon3]

I'm simply disgusted to just now be finding out http://hawksquawk.net/community//public/style_emoticons/default/santa.gif' alt='Posted Image' class='bbc_img' /> ain't real! Thanks a lot!

~lw3

[MrNique]

Far too many of these dream scenarios have us trying to bring back Smith. That is a joke. His career is as a Hawk is done. Accept it. Ferry is not bringing this inefficient player back. We will always have the Nique jersey dunk contest. A others have said, it would be a ludicrous to put him t the 4 with Dwight. Horrible basketball. Horford is the obvious 4 to keep as he an actually shoot an 18 footer. We can get a young Real wing to play the 3 in the draft if we needed to. Josh as the stretch 4... Hahaha... Smh

[thecampster]

Yes that's true, but just saying it's not as simple as Camp was stating it to be. It's actually exactly as someone posted earlier in the thread in regard to the Lakers and what they'd have to do in order to be able to SnT.

Yeah I didn't think of that.

[JTB]

Far too many of these dream scenarios have us trying to bring back Smith. That is a joke. His career is as a Hawk is done. Accept it. Ferry is not bringing this inefficient player back. We will always have the Nique jersey dunk contest. A others have said, it would be a ludicrous to put him t the 4 with Dwight. Horrible basketball. Horford is the obvious 4 to keep as he an actually shoot an 18 footer. We can get a young Real wing to play the 3 in the draft if we needed to. Josh as the stretch 4... Hahaha... Smh

Agreed...while the pipe dream could happen of cp3 and d12 teaming up, smith must be left out of this scenario. He's a very limited player offensively.

[Guest]

Why would D12 insist on Josh being here? He is trying to win a championship isn't he?

On a more serious note, D12 in the post passing out to Josh....Nooooooooooooo!

[Admin]

Why would D12 insist on Josh being here? He is trying to win a championship isn't he?

On a more serious note, D12 in the post passing out to Josh....Nooooooooooooo!

D12 passing now that's funny!

[AHF]

coach, don't forget about the minimum roster capholds ($490,180 for each) and our 1st round draft picks. Per Coon, the 1st rounders will cost us $1,348,200 and $1,280,800 (http://www.cbafaq.com/scale2011.htm). With Horf, Lou, Jenks, and 2 1st rounders the minimum roster caphold of (7*$490,180 = $3,431,260) is added on. Once you sign a player, that caphold goes away. But the caphold eats away at the amount you can offer.

If we trust Sham (In Sham We Trust), we have to also account for Jeremy Tyler having $100,000 guaranteed in his final year of his contract. This doesn't take away a caphold or anything, it just eats away at $100,000. So Al ($12,000,000), Lou ($5,225,000), Jenks ($1,258,800), payments ($100,000), draft picks ($2,629,000), and capholds ($3,431,260) put us at $24,644,060 in cap related holds. With a cap projection of $60,000,000, we would have $35,355,940 of available cap space to go spending all willy nilly and whatnot.

Sorry to put a damper on everyone's pipe dream, but someone has to do it. I also enjoy telling little kids that Santa is not real.

(Crystal Ball: we won't sign our draft picks for a while. Not because we are playing hard ball, but because it is customary for draft picks to sign at 120% of their rookie scale amount. We won't actually sign them to 120% of their rookie scale amount until we use up all our cap space since signing them to 120% will take away from our cap space. Leaving them unsigned will give us more cap space for the time being. So once we hit the cap, then we will sign. If we don't do this, then you know we have incompetent morons running the team.)

I don't think you need to include cap holds for the spots that Dwight and Chris would be filling. With 12 minimum roster spots for example, if you have Dwight, Lou, Jenkins, and 2 1sts, you only need to account for 6 cap holds when you look at the room available to sign Howard. Then once Howard is signed, you only need to account for 5 cap holds when you look at the room available to sign Paul. I may be missing something here, but I think that gives us a small additional amount of cash to pad their hypothetical salaries.

[thecampster]

This is always a funky situation with the CBA, is it 12 spots or 13 spots? Do they count towards the cap or not? I don't have the CBA with me right now, but I am pretty sure your actual cap space is calculated as I described above. This is because the minimum roster size is actually 13. So as I describe I above, the contract offer you make is always implicitly accounting for the 13th spot.As I described our "cap commitments", this implies a roster of 12. But the minimum is 13. In the CBA, capholds are always accounting for having a minimum sized roster. So the cap space I describe is the alottment of monies we can offer free agents. I believe you are implying that we should account for a roster of size 11 with your comments, and as far as I remember the CBA does not call for that.

It's 13, roster minimum. Not active. All 15 counts against the cap, LT but for the purposes of roster slots/cap holds its 13.

I'm 99.7324% sure.

[AHF]

This is always a funky situation with the CBA, is it 12 spots or 13 spots? Do they count towards the cap or not? I don't have the CBA with me right now, but I am pretty sure your actual cap space is calculated as I described above. This is because the minimum roster size is actually 13. So as I describe I above, the contract offer you make is always implicitly accounting for the 13th spot.As I described our "cap commitments", this implies a roster of 12. But the minimum is 13. In the CBA, capholds are always accounting for having a minimum sized roster. So the cap space I describe is the alottment of monies we can offer free agents. I believe you are implying that we should account for a roster of size 11 with your comments, and as far as I remember the CBA does not call for that.

Given the 13 spots, then you still remove the cap hold for the spot(s) you are filling with actual people. Otherwise, if the cap space you had remaining was equal to the final cap hold you would not have any room to sign that 13th player.

I.e., if the cap hold = $500K (rounded for ease) then a team with $900K of space couldn't sign a player for $500K because the $500K caphold would fill $500K and the team would only have $400K to sign someone. You have to offset the caphold against the player's actual salary (so a $500K cap hold dissappears and you can sign that person for up to $900K).

[GameTime]

Glad to see our neighborhood capologists philosophizing together. We are gonna need y'all this summer.