If the Hawks did get D12/CP3 is Horf the best fit for a trio?

[EazyRoc]

Wow, he sounds like a terrible poster. I seen a couple here that seems like they would give that guy a run for the money.

More entertaining than anything. That is until he threatened someone.

[thecampster]

While

Lin

Harden

Parsons

Dwight

Aisk

is better than

Teague

....

....

Horf

Howard for now

CP3

Jenkins

Korver

Horford

Howard is elite and the best team in the NBA and better on paper than Miami.

Horford would be deadly with CP3. Any PG with playmaking ability than the crap we have now at the position.

I have a real problem with that lineup. Korver was really exposed in the playoffs for his soft defense and Jenkins looked lost at times. He was very slow to get to his spots, wouldn't pull the trigger when he did and struggled with defensive concepts. Despite Dwight/Horford's presence I see us as right back to not being able to defend the 3 and not being able to create effectively.

Consider that lineup defensively. Who guards Wade, who guards Lebron? Or who guards Melo, Joe Johnson, etc. You have a real problem at the 2/3 in that lineup.

I want a real slasher if we can find one. Someone who will recklessly attack the rim on the move and defend the 2/3. We are losing a great deal in transition both ways if Smith and Teague both leave.

One last thing. Korver's cap hold currently makes it impossible to sign those 2 players and resign Kyle. It is the same issue as with Josh.

We are about 19 million. Assuming Paul/Howard = 18 million each, that's 55 million in salary for

Paul, Jenkins, Horford, Williams, Howard. you also have 7 cap holds to fill roster spots which effectively eats the rest. You can't sign Korver if you give that money to the other two. Yes you can go over the cap to sign your own player but not your own + someone else's. Korver would have to be renounced to sign these 2 as would Josh/Teague/Johnson

[NBASupes]

I have a real problem with that lineup. Korver was really exposed in the playoffs for his soft defense and Jenkins looked lost at times. He was very slow to get to his spots, wouldn't pull the trigger when he did and struggled with defensive concepts. Despite Dwight/Horford's presence I see us as right back to not being able to defend the 3 and not being able to create effectively.

Consider that lineup defensively. Who guards Wade, who guards Lebron? Or who guards Melo, Joe Johnson, etc. You have a real problem at the 2/3 in that lineup.

I want a real slasher if we can find one. Someone who will recklessly attack the rim on the move and defend the 2/3. We are losing a great deal in transition both ways if Smith and Teague both leave.

One last thing. Korver's cap hold currently makes it impossible to sign those 2 players and resign Kyle. It is the same issue as with Josh.

We are about 19 million. Assuming Paul/Howard = 18 million each, that's 55 million in salary for

Paul, Jenkins, Horford, Williams, Howard. you also have 7 cap holds to fill roster spots which effectively eats the rest. You can't sign Korver if you give that money to the other two. Yes you can go over the cap to sign your own player but not your own + someone else's. Korver would have to be renounced to sign these 2 as would Josh/Teague/Johnson

Jenkins was a rookie, I see him getting much better as most rookies going into their 2nd year do and I see him being much better around CP3, Horf, and Dwight than he was with just Horf, Smoove, and Teague.

I do see Atlanta giving them that much, it limits us in terms of resigning Korver. We need to resign Korver.

As for Korver getting exposed, we look at our help side defense. It wasn't very good. We didn't have a defensive presence down low because West keep drawing out Smoove out of the post. It's not as easy as you think to expose a player who plays very good team defense like Korver but is below average at man defense. Either way, Atlanta will have to address perimeter defense either in the draft or in Free Agency with Tony Allen or Corey Brewer.

I did the numbers in my Dallas/CP3/Dwight thread. Check it out. CP3 and Dwight both will have to take 16-16.5 for all the numbers to work which is a lot of money. After doing the taxes of the paychecks, CP3 would actually be off by nearly a million less per year than LAC while the numbers is around 3 million per for Dwight. Of course not including the 5th year that their LA deals can offer that we cannot.

Ivan, Teague, and Smoove are sure things to be renounce. Our needs for them are nil in a sense. We can draft a backup PG in the 2nd round in a deep PG class like this year. Ivan is replaceable thanks for Mike Scott. Smoove is a goner regardless. His rights are only as good as our chances of getting CP3/Dwight to be renounced.

[Peoriabird]

I have a real problem with that lineup. Korver was really exposed in the playoffs for his soft defense and Jenkins looked lost at times. He was very slow to get to his spots, wouldn't pull the trigger when he did and struggled with defensive concepts. Despite Dwight/Horford's presence I see us as right back to not being able to defend the 3 and not being able to create effectively.

Consider that lineup defensively. Who guards Wade, who guards Lebron? Or who guards Melo, Joe Johnson, etc. You have a real problem at the 2/3 in that lineup.

We have 4 draft picks! I'm pretty sure that we can find an Athletic wing with one of them!

Edited May 22, 2013 by Peoriabird

[JETSET]

I wouldn't want to have to rely on having both Jenkins and Korver as starters. I would prefer to go after a guy like Francisco Garcia to start at the 3. We can use our 1st rounders to go after an athletic playmaking wing even if it means trading both to move up some and get the player that we want. Paul has already proven that he can excel as the primary playmaker if need be though. He got to any spot on the floor that he wanted to against the Grizz and they are as good as it gets defensively.

I think this rotation would be perfect:

Paul/Lou Will

Korver/Jenkins/Lou Will

Garcia/Korver/Ivan

Horford/Ivan/Scott

Howard/A vet Center who provides defense (ie Dalembert)

We use our first for a playmaking wing if one is available. Use the other on a Post player. This lineup would give us plenty of shooting and we would be able to use a variety of guard lineups. (Paul, Lou Will, Garcia), (Paul, Jenkins, Korver),

[Dragitoff]

I have a real problem with that lineup. Korver was really exposed in the playoffs for his soft defense and Jenkins looked lost at times. He was very slow to get to his spots, wouldn't pull the trigger when he did and struggled with defensive concepts. Despite Dwight/Horford's presence I see us as right back to not being able to defend the 3 and not being able to create effectively.

Consider that lineup defensively. Who guards Wade, who guards Lebron? Or who guards Melo, Joe Johnson, etc. You have a real problem at the 2/3 in that lineup.

I want a real slasher if we can find one. Someone who will recklessly attack the rim on the move and defend the 2/3. We are losing a great deal in transition both ways if Smith and Teague both leave.

One last thing. Korver's cap hold currently makes it impossible to sign those 2 players and resign Kyle. It is the same issue as with Josh.

We are about 19 million. Assuming Paul/Howard = 18 million each, that's 55 million in salary for

Paul, Jenkins, Horford, Williams, Howard. you also have 7 cap holds to fill roster spots which effectively eats the rest. You can't sign Korver if you give that money to the other two. Yes you can go over the cap to sign your own player but not your own + someone else's. Korver would have to be renounced to sign these 2 as would Josh/Teague/Johnson

Can't we renounce Kyle then later sign him for part or all of the MLE once we're over the cap? It would take a gentlemen's agreement between Ferry and Kyle or are there rules preventing us from re-signing him using the MLE later? If that works, draft Caldwell-Pope and Plumlee with 1st rd. picks, and Ray McCallum and Ryan Kelly with 2nd round picks

Starters

Paul $18.00

Caldwell-Pope $1.40

Korver $4.00

Horford $12.00

Howard $18.00

2nd Unit

Williams $5.23

Jenkins $1.26

Barnes $1.30 (Vet min.)

Scott $0.79

Plumlee $1.30

Rest of the Bench

McCallum $0.50

Kelly $0.50

Mack $0.79

That's $65.07 million for 13 players. You could still sign 2 vet mins. and be under the LT, but close. You'd have some versatility with that group as well although no true Center beyond Dwight. You could bring a guy back like Dahntay Jones at the vet. min. to give you more depth at SF (with defense in mind)

Paul/Williams/Mack/McCallum

Caldwell-Pope/Williams/Korver/Jenkins

Korver/Barnes/Scott

Horford/Plumlee/Scott/Kelly

Howard/Horford/Plumlee/Kelly

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I hope people realize that Kyle Korver has a 9.5 million dollar cap hold

That's why any deal that involves Paul and Howard coming here, means that Kyle has to go.

If the Hawks are serious about building a winner, Kyle Korver can't be the 1st guy we add after signing a major free agent. He just can't.

[Dragitoff]

I hope people realize that Kyle Korver has a 9.5 million dollar cap hold

That's why any deal that involves Paul and Howard coming here, means that Kyle has to go.

If the Hawks are serious about building a winner, Kyle Korver can't be the 1st guy we add after signing a major free agent. He just can't.

Did you read my post above yours? I asked if we could renounce Kyle, but then sign him later once we're over the cap using our MLE.

[thecampster]

Did you read my post above yours? I asked if we could renounce Kyle, but then sign him later once we're over the cap using our MLE.

http://www.nba.com/knicks/freeagency/faqs.html (source)

Can a team sign free agents and then re-sign their own free agents using the player's Bird rights?

Yes, however a team's free agent counts towards the team's salary against the cap while he is unsigned. In order to gain additional cap room to sign other free agents, a team would have to renounce their own player's Bird rights, meaning they give up the ability to exceed the salary cap by re-signing their player.

As stated above, we will be under the cap to start. We have no exceptions. There is one traded player exception that goes away once under the cap or it counts against us as well.

The simple answer is listen to Northcyde....no. If you want Paul/Howard, Korver is 99.9% gone.

[NBASupes]

I hope people realize that Kyle Korver has a 9.5 million dollar cap hold

That's why any deal that involves Paul and Howard coming here, means that Kyle has to go.

If the Hawks are serious about building a winner, Kyle Korver can't be the 1st guy we add after signing a major free agent. He just can't.

We can't officially sign FA's till July 10 even though we can talk July 1. If Dwight and CP3 commit to Atlanta, we can tell them to take less to resign Korver and we can sign Kyle first even if CP3/Dwight have committed to the Hawks. Think about Udonis Haslem and the Heat's big three.

We could do the same for Josh Smith but Smith wants too much money which for us would be more than 5 million dollars if we land CP3 and Howard.

If we renounce Korver, we have to wait 60 days before we can sign him again unless we signed a RFA and the RFA team matched his deal.

[NBASupes]

http://www.nba.com/knicks/freeagency/faqs.html (source)

Yes, however a team's free agent counts towards the team's salary against the cap while he is unsigned. In order to gain additional cap room to sign other free agents, a team would have to renounce their own player's Bird rights, meaning they give up the ability to exceed the salary cap by re-signing their player.

As stated above, we will be under the cap to start. We have no exceptions. There is one traded player exception that goes away once under the cap or it counts against us as well.

The simple answer is listen to Northcyde....no. If you want Paul/Howard, Korver is 99.9% gone.

Wrong, we can still sign Korver as long as it under the salary cap when you add in CP3 and Howard salary. If CP3 and Howard want 18 million, then there is no way we can resign Korver even if the cap is at 62 million. 36 mill plus the 24 mill for the 9 players only gives us 2 mil to sign our other free agents like Korver. The cap is esp at 60 mil which means Dwight/CP3 at 18 mil is too much for our cap.

I think 18 mil is too much in general. We need them to get 16/16.5. That would give us some flex to resign Kyle.

Remember, the caphold is only for free agents. Not for guys you sign or that leave.

[Guest]

If we renounce Korver, we have to wait 60 days before we can sign him again unless we signed a RFA and the RFA team matched his deal.

Uh, what?

[NBASupes]

Uh, what?

That was me combining two thoughts in one.

For Korver, we cannot resign him if we renounce his rights for at least 60 days.

BUT! If we signed a RFA like say Tyreke Evans and renounced Korver's rights and then the Kings matched Evans offer, we get our rights to Korver back. But if we renounce Korver's rights for whatever reason, we cannot sign him for 60 days.

If we want Korver with CP3 and Dwight. We have to sign him before we sign them officially like Miami did with Udonis Haslem when the big three committed to play for the Heat.

[Guest]

That was me combining two thoughts in one.

For Korver, we cannot resign him if we renounce his rights for at least 60 days.

No. This is wrong and caused me to say "what?" I am guessing you are mixing this up with the 2 month trade restriction (i.e. you cannot trade a player for 2 months after you trade for them).

The rest is right.

[NBASupes]

No. This is wrong and caused me to say "what?" I am guessing you are mixing this up with the 2 month trade restriction (i.e. you cannot trade a player for 2 months after you trade for them).

The rest is right.

You're right.

As detailed in question number 37, free agents continue to be included in team salary. By renouncing a player, a team gives up its right to use the Larry Bird, Early Bird, or Non-Bird exceptions (see question number 25) to re-sign that player. A renounced player no longer counts toward team salary, so teams use renouncement to gain additional cap room. Teams are still permitted to re-sign renounced players, but only with cap room or an exception other than the Bird exception. The exception to this rule is that an Early Bird free agent who is coming off the second season of his rookie scale contract. Such players, when renounced, are treated as Non-Bird free agents.

[DrReality]

Its always nice to dream Hope we have this problem.

[ATLSmith]

Horford fits very well with CP3 & D12. His mid-range ability, tough defense, and rebounding all compliment Paul and Dwight's game. Two rebounders are a part of winning teams. Dwight might not get his 20 boards but he can still average 10 a game with Al coming in around 9. For offense, Al is a nice guy for Dwight to kick to if double teamed.

Paul and Al are made for each other of pick and pops and pick and rolls.

In terms of wing players, I think you can get the defensive wing much more cheaply than a declining Iggy.

Lastly, the Paul/Al/Dwight combo makes the Hawks strong exactly where the Heat a weak (and the reverse is also true). It would make for a very interesting playoff series when the two clubs end up going head to head, not to mention the regular season.

So, I'm very good with Al being the anchor guy and bringing in the two big fish this offseason

What he said. I've always thought that Al/Howard is a better combo than Smoove/Howard. Smoove/Howard would just get in each others way and force Smoove further away from the basket. Al/Howard are more complimentary.