Lottery still fixed.

[Diesel]

Seems like Cleveland is still being paid for losing Lebron.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

That was my first thought...

[MaceCase]

So Orlando doesn't get anything for losing Dwight? Phoenix and Nash? Stern must also really hate one of the greatest if not the greatest money earners in NBA history and current owner of a failing franchise to not only refuse to reward the Bobcats with a top pick 2 years in a row but push them further back in the lottery from 2nd to 4th. What about the Kings? Sacramento almost loses their team and now they're are rewarded with moving further back from where they were slotted....again.

I mean, sure, only Cleveland has a plausible reason to have the results rigged.

[wolvetigers]

What a joke..this would have merit if the Knicks, Lakers, Boston, Chicago - the big markets somehow worked their way into the lottery...Cleveland will draft the talent the big market teams will still lure them away..no rigging necessary

[Diesel]

So Orlando doesn't get anything for losing Dwight? Phoenix and Nash? Stern must also really hate one of the greatest if not the greatest money earners in NBA history and current owner of a failing franchise to not only refuse to reward the Bobcats with a top pick 2 years in a row but push them further back in the lottery from 2nd to 4th. What about the Kings? Sacramento almost loses their team and now they're are rewarded with moving further back from where they were slotted....again.

I mean, sure, only Cleveland has a plausible reason to have the results rigged.

Nash over the hill.

Dwight... wasn't that a trade? The magic got: Josh McRoberts, Christian Eyenga, Maurice Harkless, Nikola Vucevic, Arron Afflalo, Al Harrington, and draft picks.

Here's the thing. The Cavs were screwed publicly... they were rewarded publickly. The draft is rigged.

[Diesel]

What a joke..this would have merit if the Knicks, Lakers, Boston, Chicago - the big markets somehow worked their way into the lottery...Cleveland will draft the talent the big market teams will still lure them away..no rigging necessary

I disagree. I think you will see that the League has a great balance between stars and large markets. Large markets will always attract stars. Small markets will always be rewarded with draft picks. Who will become stars and eventually end up with Large market teams. The proof sits before us.

[DJlaysitup]

Seems like Cleveland is still being paid for losing Lebron.

I think it's the kid...check out his eyes...he may have powers.

[wolvetigers]

I disagree. I think you will see that the League has a great balance between stars and large markets. Large markets will always attract stars. Small markets will always be rewarded with draft picks. Who will become stars and eventually end up with Large market teams. The proof sits before us.

You do realize that their is a correlation to under performing small market teams and the lottery right? The mindset of the big market teams is simply to spend and consume what they can to stay relevant. Cleveland actually had the 2nd best odds of winning the lottery behind the Magic so not much of a stretch....If that were true then the Hawks should of had the #1 pick atleast once during all the times we sucked.

[Diesel]

You do realize that their is a correlation to under performing small market teams and the lottery right? The mindset of the big market teams is simply to spend and consume what they can to stay relevant. Cleveland actually had the 2nd best odds of winning the lottery behind the Magic so not much of a stretch....If that were true then the Hawks should of had the #1 pick atleast once during all the times we sucked.

Why not just give it to the worst team and be done with it.

Put in a salary decentive for teams that appear to be tanking and losing fans.

[Admin]

Why not just give it to the worst team and be done with it.Put in a salary decentive for teams that appear to be tanking and losing fans.

Because you can't prove someone is tanking.

[MaceCase]

http://www.nba.com/2013/news/05/21/replay-of-nba-draft-lottery/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt13a

I heard they got James Cameron to come in and CGI that as a side project before Avatar 2.

One would also have to ask why 13 other team representatives are cool with being in on their team getting screwed, why reporters from multiple news outlets aren't trampling each other over the scoop that the draft is rigged, and why a multi-national independent accounting firm such as Ernst & Young is staking their reputation on perpetuating a lie.

[Diesel]

Because you can't prove someone is tanking.

You don't have to prove it. Just tax the team (players) 20% for coming in last and stagger that to the bottom 8. Teams will play harder if they know that there's a decentive with them just mailing it in and players won't likely tank.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The main problem with the lottery, is that the selection process isn't done on live TV. Why in the hell would you need an accounting firm to confirm the results, when all you're "supposedly" doing, is picking out ping pong balls to determine who is selecting in the 1 - 2 - and 3 positions?

And yes, I know with the way that they do the lottery, there is a possibility that a team's group of numbers could be selected multiple times. And for the results to be truly legit, you'd have to select the #1 position first . . then #2 . . . then #3. That'll take some of the drama out of the selection show, although not much.

While all of the teams would want that #1 spot, I'm sure teams who have a limited number of ping pong balls, would be elated if they were selected to get that 2nd or 3rd spot. The actual broadcast of the lottery might be more entertaining if they did it like that, and showed all of the results live.

So why all of the secrecy around the lottery process?

Just do the dang thing live on TV.

[MaceCase]

Look at the video I just posted. That is exactly what goes on behind the scenes. Now tell me, do you feel the drama and suspense of that event? Can ESPN or the NBA sell advertisers and viewers on spending time and money on that process? Watching Stu Jackson standing around for 11 minutes waiting to yell out a sequence of numbers and then having accountants cross check who was given that sequence? How can ESPN milk out a 30 minute show from a process where only 3 picks are determined and the most important one comes first? You don't need to televise where teams 4-14 will pick either because that goes precisely to order of their records.

I don't see how people would feel more comfortable about the process if an independent auditing firm was not involved either. Isn't that like saying that crime is less likely to happen if there aren't any cops around? Will fans be sitting at home with bingo cards filled with 250 number combinations (and that's just one team) cross checking with what they see on TV making sure that there's no foul play?

The Oscars might as well start giving out best picture and actor at the beginning of the show too and Grammys should give out album of the year at the beginning. I'm sure viewership will remain just as strong as fans and artists alike will stick around for 2 hours to find out who won "best editing" or "best spoken word album".

The lottery is televised the way it is because that's the most entertaining form for TV. Executives from each team involved (you saw them) sit through the actual process which is why I asked, why exactly would Utah, Charlotte or whoever be comfortable watching the draft be rigged against them right in front of their eyes? Is the entire NBA and individual front offices all involved in the lie? Are struggling teams in need of that pick just happy at the prospect of losing money without a star to jump start their franchise? It's all really absurd but hey nothing beats the wonders of a conspiracy.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The main problem with the lottery, is that the selection process isn't done on live TV. Why in the hell would you need an accounting firm to confirm the results, when all you're "supposedly" doing, is picking out ping pong balls to determine who is selecting in the 1 - 2 - and 3 positions?

And yes, I know with the way that they do the lottery, there is a possibility that a team's group of numbers could be selected multiple times. And for the results to be truly legit, you'd have to select the #1 position first . . then #2 . . . then #3. That'll take some of the drama out of the selection show, although not much.

While all of the teams would want that #1 spot, I'm sure teams who have a limited number of ping pong balls, would be elated if they were selected to get that 2nd or 3rd spot. The actual broadcast of the lottery might be more entertaining if they did it like that, and showed all of the results live.

So why all of the secrecy around the lottery process?

Just do the dang thing live on TV.

To expand on this, the NBA is just lazy, in my opinion.

One of the supposed issues with their current selection process, is the fact that even when you pick the #1 - #2 and #3 spots, there could be times in which the same team's lottery numbers could be selected, when choosing those #2 and #3 spots. I know there have been instances in which multiple drawings had to be done ( more than 5 ), in order to complete the selection process.

In reality though, there is no reason for this.

If a team is selected, just divide its lottery combinations with the other teams.

Example:

Currently, the team with the 4th most chances possess 119 combinations ( out of 1000 ). So let's say in the drawing for the #1 spot, they're selected to get the 1st pick in the draft. All they would have to do, is just divide their lottery combination chances with the other teams. You can do it one for one, or divide it by continue to weigh the combinations according to record.

If you did it one for one, each of the remaining 13 teams would get 9 additional combinations added to their chances. So the worst team would now have 259 chances, instead of 250 . . . while the team with the least amount of chances would now have 14 combinations, instead of 5.

#1: 250 + 9 + 1 = 260

#2: 199 + 9 + 1 = 209

#3: 156 + 9 = 165

#4: SELECTED AS 1st PICK . . . ( 119 combinations available )

#5: 88 + 9 = 97

#6: 63 + 9 = 72

#7: 43 + 9 = 52

#8: 28 + 9 = 37

#9: 17 + 9 = 26

#10: 11 + 9 = 20

#11: 8 + 9 = 17

#12: 7 + 9 = 16

#13: 6 + 9 = 15

#14: 5 + 9 = 14

You would have 2 more combination available ( 9 x 13 = 117 ), so go back to the top of the list, and give those 2 combos to the teams with the top 2 chances. If there were 6 combinations available, you'd give the remaining 6 to the top 6 teams, etc.

When the next team is selected for the #2 pick in the draft, divide up the total combinations left between the two selected teams, and give them to the remaining teams in the same fashion.

OR

If you wanted to still weigh it by percentage, the worst team would get 25% of the 119 combinations that the #4 team left available. So now you're talking about the worst team getting 30 additional combinations, instead of 9, bringing their total to 280. The worst team, however, with a 0.5% percentage of combinations, would only get 1 additional combination, instead of 9.

#1: 250 + 30 = 280 + 2 = 282

#2: 199 + 24 = 223 + 1 = 224

#3: 156 + 19 = 175 + 1 = 176

#4: SELECTED AS 1st PICK . . . ( 119 combinations available )

#5: 88 + 10 = 98 + 1 = 99

#6: 63 + 7 = 70 + 1 = 71

#7: 43 + 5 = 48 + 1 = 49

#8: 28 + 3 = 31 + 1 = 32

#9: 17 + 2 = 19 + 1 = 20

#10: 11 + 1 = 12 + 1 = 13

#11: 8 + 1 = 9 + 1 = 10

#12: 7 + 1 = 8 + 1 = 9

#13: 6 + 1 = 7 + 1 = 8

#14: 5 + 1 = 6+ 1 = 7

In this scenario, you still have about 14 combinations left over ( because the percentage of the #4 team wasn't factored in the split amongst the other teams ). Two ways around this.

You can simply evenly divide up the remaining combinations with the rest of the teams, adding 2 to the #1 slotted team, and 1 to the rest of the teams.

OR

You could've moved each team behind the #4 team, up one slot, and give them the percentage combinations slotted for that position. So now, the #5 team gets the #4 teams percentages. The #10 team gets #9's percentages. And so on and so forth. The one remaining combination ( of the #14 slotted team ) would go to the team with the most combinations.

The NBA acts like they don't have the technology to do this. But maybe they want everything to be in secret, just to keep some idea that it IS rigged going in the minds of fans heads.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Mace . . . the process that the NBA is doing, is 20 years old. They don't need all of those charts showing the different combinations that the teams have. And it doesn't have to be a boring process. They could do this all on computer, and post it online, so fans could know exactly what combination of numbers they'd need for their team to win. And if they do what I suggested in my previous post, they could still do all of this in real time.

As each number appears, ESPN could show a graphic on the screen showing which teams still have that possible combination of numbers. As we got to the 3rd and then the 4th number, fans would be hanging on the edge of their seat . . . waiting on that 4th number.

Hell, I could see ESPN executives even telling Stu to STOP before they picked that 4th number . . . run a few commercials . . do an interview or two with the teams still in the running . . and then select the 4th and final number for that #1 spot.

After missing out on the first 2 selections, could you imagine how Hawk fans would've felt, if after 3 numbers drawn, we were still in the running for that #3 pick? Maybe we would've also seen how close we were to getting one of the top 2 slots, but didn't have our number drawn. So what if we were in the running once again to get that final pick in the top 3. That would be much more drama, than listening to 10 minutes of meaningless interviews, then finally seeing where we were slotted.

The NBA and all of the "old heads" running the show, can come up with something newer and a lot more interesting than what they do now.

We have the technology to do all of this. This is not 1993 with all of us on running Windows 3.0 and Windows NT. And if ESPN can make the NFL Draft a watchable event, even after the 1st round, I'm sure they can come up with things to spice up the NBA Draft Lottery, if given the right information.

[AHF]

Look at the video I just posted. That is exactly what goes on behind the scenes. Now tell me, do you feel the drama and suspense of that event? Can ESPN or the NBA sell advertisers and viewers on spending time and money on that process? Watching Stu Jackson standing around for 11 minutes waiting to yell out a sequence of numbers and then having accountants cross check who was given that sequence? How can ESPN milk out a 30 minute show from a process where only 3 picks are determined and the most important one comes first? You don't need to televise where teams 4-14 will pick either because that goes precisely to order of their records.

I don't see how people would feel more comfortable about the process if an independent auditing firm was not involved either. Isn't that like saying that crime is less likely to happen if there aren't any cops around? Will fans be sitting at home with bingo cards filled with 250 number combinations (and that's just one team) cross checking with what they see on TV making sure that there's no foul play?

The Oscars might as well start giving out best picture and actor at the beginning of the show too and Grammys should give out album of the year at the beginning. I'm sure viewership will remain just as strong as fans and artists alike will stick around for 2 hours to find out who won "best editing" or "best spoken word album".

The lottery is televised the way it is because that's the most entertaining form for TV. Executives from each team involved (you saw them) sit through the actual process which is why I asked, why exactly would Utah, Charlotte or whoever be comfortable watching the draft be rigged against them right in front of their eyes? Is the entire NBA and individual front offices all involved in the lie? Are struggling teams in need of that pick just happy at the prospect of losing money without a star to jump start their franchise? It's all really absurd but hey nothing beats the wonders of a conspiracy.

I agree with this 100%.

What I think they should do, however, is immediately post the video of the live draft on NBA.com after the lottery show has aired so that diehards can view the actual process.

Let's get real. If the NBA adopted the "northcyde" method, they could rig it just as easily as using the current format today. His proposal to run the lottery process off of a computer actually would lend itself to easier rigging.

The real questions are how do you ensure integrity of the process and how do you monetize the lottery process (i.e., sell advertising, etc.).

On the integrity issue, having all teams present and an independent accounting firm is about as good as you can get. You know a guy like Mark Cuban isn't going to sit back silently while the NBA screws him over by handing Cleveland a top pick (Cleveland? this is the conspiracy?). An accounting firm isn't going to be part of this because they don't make much money from it - it is a nice little cherry but if their reputation is damaged by being associated with a fraud it could cost them their business.

From a TV standpoint, the existing format is the one to use - a countdown to the top pick. Every selection show in existence uses some variation of this formula for very good reason.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Let's get real. If the NBA adopted the "northcyde" method, they could rig it just as easily as using the current format today. His proposal to run the lottery process off of a computer actually would lend itself to easier rigging.

LOL . . . no it wouldn't.

Do you actually think they need all of those charts up, to show which number combinations each team has? Do you think they need an accounting firm to verify a FOUR NUMBER COMBINATION pulled from a lottery machine? Seriously?

They could EASILY put all of the number combinations for each team online. They can still pull each number from the archaic lottery machine. They could show all of those number combinations on cheap flat screen TVs hooked up to a computer. And they could make the process much more dramatic for not only the top selection, but also the #2 and #3 positions.

Instead of all of that "fluff" that they present to us for 25 minutes, before actually revealing the results, they could actually show the drawings live on TV for each of the 3 lottery spots, and add a little bit more spice to the process.

I guess with my advertising and marketing background, I see things differently.

Script for Draft Lottery show - (( 30 minutes ))

Segment 1 - (( 4 minutes ))

- Announcer Intros

- Give a quick rundown of the teams in the Lottery

- ESPN will explain the drawing process, how the number combinations determine the winner, and how the combinations will be reshuffled after each pick

- Tell fans to go to ESPN.com and NBA.com to see the number combinations that their team has ( by clicking on their team name ), before each selection.

(( Commercials - 2:00))

Segment 2 - (( 8 minutes ))

- Do about a 2 minute highlight package on the top 5 or 6 players that people believe will be chosen in the top 3

- Introduce the representatives from each team

- Start the lottery drawing for the #1 pick

Example:

Stu Jackson will quickly explain how he will pick out 4 ping pong balls with numbers on them, and how after the 4th number is drawn, the 4-ball number combination shown will match a combination that one team has. This will be the team that gets the draft position.

ESPN will then show a graphic on the side of the screen, listing all of the teams in the lottery. As each number is drawn, the teams that doesn't have the number combination currently shown, will disappear from the list. For people following online, they will see this same thing on their computer screens.

STU: "I will now begin choosing the number combination for the team who will have the 1st selection in the NBA Draft"

- The 1st ball . . . is 14 . . . ( ESPN graphic shows 3 teams disappearing from the list, with 11 left )

- The 2nd ball . . . is 5 . . . ( ESPN graphic shows 4 teams disappearing from the list, with 7 left )

- The 3rd ball . . . is 2 . . . ( ESPN graphic shows 3 teams disappearing from the list, with 4 teams left )

STU: So right now the number combination is 2 - 5 - 14. I'll draw one more number to complete the combination.

- ESPN then decides to do a few quick interviews with the 4 remaining teams that are in the running for that #1 selection

(( Commercials - 2:00 ))

Segment 3 (( 7 minutes ))

- Announcers do a quick recap of the teams still in the running, and flashes the graphic of the 3 numbers already drawn. They do a 4-split screen shot of the teams remaining as Stu draws the final number from the lottery machine

STU: "The 4th and final number is . . . 8. So the winning number combination is 2 - 5 - 8 - 14."

- ESPN graphic immediately shows the team who has that number combination, and it is revealed to the room.

- Fans at home and online also see it immediately on ESPN, ESPN.com and NBA.com

- ESPN does a 60 - 90 second interview with the rep of the winning team, while they get to show their #1 pick and jersey.

STU: "At this time, the number combinations from the winning team will be divided up by "slot percentage" to the remaining teams in the lottery. Once this is completed, the reps will be shown their new number combinations for their team, and we will begin the drawing for the #2nd pick in the draft."

- Number combinations are redistributed, and a new combination chart is shown online and by ESPN. Fans once again can click on a link in which their number combinations are shown. ( We live in a technological age folks. This can be done in seconds. )

STU: "I will now begin choosing the number combination for the team who will have the 2nd pick in the NBA Draft.

- Repeat drawing process shown for 1st selection.

- Stu draws the 4 numbers from the lottery machine.

- Winner is announced

- Quick interview of the winner of the 2nd pick

- Number combinations are re-distributed once again

(( Commercials - 2:00 ))

Segment 4 - (( 5 minutes ))

- Announcers do a recap of who got the first 2 selections.

- In ESPN style, they may also make fun of a team who may have had the most chances, but missed out on the 1st 2 picks

- Stu Jackson goes through the selection process for the 3rd pick in the draft

- Winner is announced.

- Rep from winning team is interviewed

End of program

Of course, you guys will either disagree that his can be done, or if this will make the Draft Lottery a little more interesting. But it definitely can be done.

You don't need an accounting firm to verify a 4 number combination that everyone can see. A few college interns with computer programming and graphic skills could make this process better. Let the TV execs add whatever bells and whistles they want to the show.

But it can be done.

[AHF]

What you just described is easier to fake. Even I could program a computer to spit out a given combination and operating without auditors and with college interns doesn't lend itself to credibility.

There are separate discussions over entertainment value (I like your idea but still think it wouldn't be as much of a ratings grab as counting from 14 to 1) but in terms of giving a greater confidence in the authenticity of the process, that is a step down from a process that is audited by an accounting firm.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

What you just described is easier to fake. Even I could program a computer to spit out a given combination and operating without auditors and with college interns doesn't lend itself to credibility.

There are separate discussions over entertainment value (I like your idea but still think it wouldn't be as much of a ratings grab as counting from 14 to 1) but in terms of giving a greater confidence in the authenticity of the process, that is a step down from a process that is audited by an accounting firm.

You need to explain how it would be easier to fake then, when everybody in the room, watching TV, and online, would have access to each team's number combinations before each pick. Heck, even if you wanted to do something like print each team's combinations of numbers out to the reps before each pick, you could do it. That way, they'd have 2 forms of validation . . . the paper in front of them with the number combinations, and the TVs in front of them showing the number combinations.

I think you're believing that I'm doing everything on computer. No. I'm still using the ping pong balls. I'm still having Stu draw the numbers out. I'm just giving the process a way that it could be presented live, and still be engaging to fans. And one of the ways to do that, is to give everybody the ability to view the number combinations for each team, as the numbers are chosen for each pick.

Each team would always keep their original number combinations through picks 1 and 2, if they haven't already been selected in those positions. But as a team is selected, their number combinations are split up and added to the remaining teams ( preferably by percentage, so that the teams with the worst record can gain a little more of the advantage to get the remaining picks ).

If we did the lottery like I suggested, we could've actually seen how close we were to getting the #1 or #2 pick back in 2007.

Stu is drawing for the 1st pick, and he's drawn 1 - 7 - 8. And only 4 teams left have that particular number combination, going into Stu's final number pick.

PORTLAND . . needs a 3 to win

MEMPHIS . . . needs a 5, 6, 12 or 14 to win

BOSTON . . . needs a 4, 9 or 11 to win

ATLANTA . . . needs a 2, 10 or 13

Of course, we know that Portland ( with their 5.3% of a chance to win that year ) won the lottery and got that #1 pick. So if the number that was chosen was a 3, Hawks fans would know they were merely 1 number away from possibly getting that pick.

I don't know about you, but that would be far more interesting and entertaining to know in real time, than just seeing the current selection process, and knowing that we got the #3 pick. Instead of believing that we were lucky to just get the #3 pick, we would've seen that we were VERY CLOSE to getting that #1 pick.

With this current process, the only people who would know, are the representatives in that room who see Stu pick out those numbers.

Edited May 30, 2013 by northcyde