As a hawks fan how do you feel about this statement regarding Ferry?

[JTB]

I was browsing around on AJC and this comment about ferry really caught my eye. Take a look:"Posted by seminoleking at 4:37 p.m. May. 20, 2013 Report AbuseFor some reason............i think trading joe johnson is going to be the HIGHLIGHT of danny ferry's tenure in atlanta............"I guess I shouldn't read too much into a comment made by a fan but on a serious note....does anybody else feel this way? Just a little?

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Absolutely not. The negativity about the mediocre Hawks is Danny's biggest obstacle in making believers out of everyone. Also, judging by the screen name, he's probably a Heat/Magic fan. IFWT.

[Diesel]

Like it or not, so far, it's the truth.

His legacy is not only getting rid of Joe but also what he does with capspace. BK created a lot of capspace too. but he never reached down deep to get us what we needed.

[Buzzard]

Like it or not, so far, it's the truth.

His legacy is not only getting rid of Joe but also what he does with capspace. BK created a lot of capspace too. but he never reached down deep to get us what we needed.

Ferry has about twice the cap BK ever cleared plus two picks in the same draft. I cannot remember any season where we had both cap to sign two major free agents and two mid 1st round picks. What he does is important, but what he has done so far is impressive as well.

[cam1218]

Ferry has about twice the cap BK ever cleared plus two picks in the same draft. I cannot remember any season where we had both cap to sign two major free agents and two mid 1st round picks. What he does is important, but what he has done so far is impressive as well.

Exactly. I sometimes wonder what else other people think Ferry should have done by now. Traded Teague for LeBron?He has done a great job and hasn't even been on the job for a year. No doubt he has more work to do, but he's been awesome so far and he has my confidence moving forward.

[Wretch]

First, let me say that anybody that overly criticizes Danny Ferry right now has little understanding of how the NBA front office works. It takes YEARS for things to fall into place, a lot of work, and a stroke of luck. So far, not much of that applies to Danny Ferry. He's only been here a year and some things MIGHT fall into place this summer. For sure though, he lucked up and pawned JJ off onto the Nets. I imagine his hand was shaking as he was signing the paperwork - likely as soon as each sheet came off the printer...lol.

In his time here, he's done nothing but good things. So far, he gets an A+++ in my book for the initial comments he made about turning this thing around. That's the most important thing for me....he KNOWS what's wrong. I do have to admit that I am a little reserved in my comments about how he intends to build a contender going forward - he hasn't really tipped his hand.

Short of signing CP3 and Dwight, the most practical thing to do is acquire raw talent (aka rebuilding). I mean, you CAN try your luck at stockpiling some of this borderline 2nd tier talent....and build yourself a pretty good, blue collar team...but that model tends to stutter in the middle of the 2nd round of the playoffs. I don't know how anybody who is a fan of this team can argue otherwise. We're literally the poster child for that kind of mediocrity and I cringe at the thought of watching yet another under-powered team being built. Especially given that DF claims to want to build lasting success (with "success" being defined as ECF's or better).

All that being said, I didn't understand the point of this season. I felt like we should have continued gutting the team, but strategic pieces were added that pushed us into the playoffs. For a moment, it felt a little too similar to how the pieces were "patched up" around LeBron in Cleveland. Only we didn't have an All-Pro caliber player to build around - we had Josh.

I would be a fool to condemn the man right now, but I REAAAAALLY want to see the outcome of this offseason. I will know much. Even DF himself said that pretty soon, certain pathways to retool/rebuild this team are going to close.

[DJlaysitup]

However it works out - trading JJ and that contract for mostly expirings is a pretty awesome highlight. With that move alone he earned a couple years of his salary.

[Dejay]

I haven't seen Ferry blow four lottery picks yet, including a #2 on 'length' and 'upside'. That puts him well beyond BK's level; light-years beyond....

[DJlaysitup]

I haven't seen Ferry blow four lottery picks yet, including a #2 on 'length' and 'upside'. That puts him well beyond BK's level; light-years beyond....

Haha...really...let's also not forget the first round picks he traded for the guy (JJ) that we just traded for expiring contracts (capspace) and the high second round picks he p;_ssed away.

BK was arguably the worst NBA GM of all time.

[Dejay]

And pawning off Darkwing Duck for more than a Swiffer mop should be considered as much a miracle as Moses parting the Red Sea...

[AHF]

BK was not a good GM at all but worst of all time? Not even close.

He made some good moves:

Al Horford #3 - Nailed it.

Josh Smith #17 in first round - Fantastic value pick.

Boris Diaw #23 in first round - Excellent value pick.

JJ - Five-time All-Star in Atlanta

Signed Zaza as a free agent - Good pickup

Traded the Landlord and filler for Bibby - Nice acquisition.

Tried to fire Woodson on multiple occasions

Don't bother reciting his bad moves. He made some terrible ones (Marvin, Shelden, etc.) and some bad ones (Childress, Woodson, etc.) but he left the team as a reasonably priced team with young playoff talent.

That isn't the worst GM in NBA history. Heck, as a drafter he was a clear upgrade from the Babcock era. Now Babcock can make a claim to be the worst drafting GM in NBA history. That is a credible argument.

[coachx]

Ferry has not even had 1 draft or off season with cap space to add pieces yet.Don't pay attention to callers on radio stations would be my only advice.

[AHF]

Ferry drafted Jenkins and Scott last year. I agree with the point that he hasn't had meaningful time to evaluate his team building.

[Diesel]

Ferry has about twice the cap BK ever cleared plus two picks in the same draft. I cannot remember any season where we had both cap to sign two major free agents and two mid 1st round picks. What he does is important, but what he has done so far is impressive as well.

I would have to look deep into those numbers. Remember, BK got rid of JT, Shareef, Deke, and Big Dog. He then traded Sheed for expirings and picks. When we went into the 2004 draft, we had tons of money. Well scratch that, he had Antoine Walker but going into his 2nd season as GM with Walker off the books... he had 15+ Million to spend.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I was browsing around on AJC and this comment about ferry really caught my eye. Take a look:"Posted by seminoleking at 4:37 p.m. May. 20, 2013 Report AbuseFor some reason............i think trading joe johnson is going to be the HIGHLIGHT of danny ferry's tenure in atlanta............"I guess I shouldn't read too much into a comment made by a fan but on a serious note....does anybody else feel this way? Just a little?

All I know is that most Hawk fans were ready to erect a statue out on front of Philips Arena, because Ferry was able to get out from under that contract so quickly and easily.

He'll start to be really judged on what he starts doing with this team, this summer.

If Ferry can't turn the cap space left via the JJ trade into something better during the JJ era, then yes . . . the highlight of Ferry's tenure as GM of the Hawks will be the trading of Joe Johnson.

Hopefully that won't be the highlight of his legacy in Atlanta.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

First, let me say that anybody that overly criticizes Danny Ferry right now has little understanding of how the NBA front office works. It takes YEARS for things to fall into place, a lot of work, and a stroke of luck. So far, not much of that applies to Danny Ferry. He's only been here a year and some things MIGHT fall into place this summer. For sure though, he lucked up and pawned JJ off onto the Nets. I imagine his hand was shaking as he was signing the paperwork - likely as soon as each sheet came off the printer...lol.

In his time here, he's done nothing but good things. So far, he gets an A+++ in my book for the initial comments he made about turning this thing around. That's the most important thing for me....he KNOWS what's wrong. I do have to admit that I am a little reserved in my comments about how he intends to build a contender going forward - he hasn't really tipped his hand.

Short of signing CP3 and Dwight, the most practical thing to do is acquire raw talent (aka rebuilding). I mean, you CAN try your luck at stockpiling some of this borderline 2nd tier talent....and build yourself a pretty good, blue collar team...but that model tends to stutter in the middle of the 2nd round of the playoffs. I don't know how anybody who is a fan of this team can argue otherwise. We're literally the poster child for that kind of mediocrity and I cringe at the thought of watching yet another under-powered team being built. Especially given that DF claims to want to build lasting success (with "success" being defined as ECF's or better).

All that being said, I didn't understand the point of this season. I felt like we should have continued gutting the team, but strategic pieces were added that pushed us into the playoffs. For a moment, it felt a little too similar to how the pieces were "patched up" around LeBron in Cleveland. Only we didn't have an All-Pro caliber player to build around - we had Josh.

I would be a fool to condemn the man right now, but I REAAAAALLY want to see the outcome of this offseason. I will know much. Even DF himself said that pretty soon, certain pathways to retool/rebuild this team are going to close.

It wasn't "luck".

I've said from Day 1 that the Hawks will be able to get out from under JJ's contract anytime they wanted. A big money team that valued the contribution that JJ brought to the table, would've traded their scraps to us to acquire JJ . . . or made a semi-blockbuster trade of "stars" who didn't quite fit on their current teams.

You think with the way the Lakers struggled this year, that they wouldn't have thought about making a move for JJ? Especially since his old coach and his old PG was in LA? With the rumors about Pau Gasol not being a fit, I could've seen a scenario that saw the Lakers exploring a trade of Pau for JJ . . . straight up.

LA Lakers lineup

PG - Nash

G - Kobe

F - Johnson

PF - Artest / Hill

C - Howard

Atlanta Lineup

PG - Teague

G - Harris

F - Smith

PF - Howard

C - Gasol

( no Kyle Korver, because we acquired him with the trade exception from the JJ deal ).

Both teams could've been talked into making a deal like that, for the betterment of both teams.

Edited May 23, 2013 by northcyde

[macdaddy]

We got out from under two huge liabilities and fielded a team as good or better. That's a good accomplishment. There is more to come. Even if Ferry fails to get a star I expect we will have a team that is easier to get excited about than in years past.

[JTB]

All I know is that most Hawk fans were ready to erect a statue out on front of Philips Arena, because Ferry was able to get out from under that contract so quickly and easily. He'll start to be really judged on what he starts doing with this team, this summer. If Ferry can't turn the cap space left via the JJ trade into something better during the JJ era, then yes . . . the highlight of Ferry's tenure as GM of the Hawks will be the trading of Joe Johnson. Hopefully that won't be the highlight of his legacy in Atlanta.

And I do agree with what your saying but not to be negative towards ferry because he is doing a fantastic job but how long should we give him to make our hawks better? .....2 years? 3 years?....end of this off season?....naw the end of the off season is too harsh. If its up to me I'm giving Ferry 2 to 3 years....I think that's fair.

[KB21]

First, let me say that anybody that overly criticizes Danny Ferry right now has little understanding of how the NBA front office works. It takes YEARS for things to fall into place, a lot of work, and a stroke of luck. So far, not much of that applies to Danny Ferry. He's only been here a year and some things MIGHT fall into place this summer. For sure though, he lucked up and pawned JJ off onto the Nets. I imagine his hand was shaking as he was signing the paperwork - likely as soon as each sheet came off the printer...lol.

In his time here, he's done nothing but good things. So far, he gets an A+++ in my book for the initial comments he made about turning this thing around. That's the most important thing for me....he KNOWS what's wrong. I do have to admit that I am a little reserved in my comments about how he intends to build a contender going forward - he hasn't really tipped his hand.

Short of signing CP3 and Dwight, the most practical thing to do is acquire raw talent (aka rebuilding). I mean, you CAN try your luck at stockpiling some of this borderline 2nd tier talent....and build yourself a pretty good, blue collar team...but that model tends to stutter in the middle of the 2nd round of the playoffs. I don't know how anybody who is a fan of this team can argue otherwise. We're literally the poster child for that kind of mediocrity and I cringe at the thought of watching yet another under-powered team being built. Especially given that DF claims to want to build lasting success (with "success" being defined as ECF's or better).

All that being said, I didn't understand the point of this season. I felt like we should have continued gutting the team, but strategic pieces were added that pushed us into the playoffs. For a moment, it felt a little too similar to how the pieces were "patched up" around LeBron in Cleveland. Only we didn't have an All-Pro caliber player to build around - we had Josh.

I would be a fool to condemn the man right now, but I REAAAAALLY want to see the outcome of this offseason. I will know much. Even DF himself said that pretty soon, certain pathways to retool/rebuild this team are going to close.

I want to make two points about a comment you made in this post. I have bolded the paragraph I am referencing.

I'm not sure how you can gut the team anymore than what they did without making moves to tank the season. There were only five players on this year's team that was on last year's team. Al Horford, Josh Smith, Jeff Teague, Zaza Pachulia, and Ivan Johnson. The players that were added to this team were not the overaged band aids that Ferry acquired in Cleveland to placate LeBron James. These were not moves like signing Antawn Jamison, trading for Shaq....etc.

The Hawks basically made moves, with the exception of Lou Williams, to bring in players on one year deals. Most of the time, that ends up backfiring, the players don't mesh well, and you end up losing because of it. I think most underestimated how much of an impact someone like Kyle Korver's shooting ability would have, and I know most definitely overestimated the impact Joe Johnson's scoring had on the team. Most fans overestimate the impact of scoring, as in PPG type scoring, anyway.

The other point I want to make is that tanking rarely works. If trading off all the good players so we can suck for a higher pick is what you were hinting at, then that is probably the worst plan someone could come up with. There have been studies upon studies about this, and teams very rarely go from being terrible to being championship caliber. You have to be lucky when doing this and end up being the team that gets a LeBron James or a Dwight Howard with that draft pick. There is a reason the teams in the lottery tend to be the same teams year after year. Plus, this season, there isn't a prospect in the draft worth tanking to get even if tanking was a sound strategy, which it isn't. The same studies show that it is easier to go from good to great than it is to go from terrible to great.

The last time the Hawks had cap room, they did not spend the money wisely. They maxed out a player that was not worth maxing out.

This time around, the Hawks have a chance to max out a couple of players that deserve it, but they also have a chance to be smart with their money and bring in guys who will outproduce the contracts they get.

Essentially, what they need to do is stay away from the likes of Al Jefferson and focus on getting players like Nikola Pekovic.

[Wretch]

It wasn't "luck".

I've said from Day 1 that the Hawks will be able to get out from under JJ's contract anytime they wanted. A big money team that valued the contribution that JJ brought to the table, would've traded their scraps to us to acquire JJ . . . or made a semi-blockbuster trade of "stars" who didn't quite fit on their current teams.

You think with the way the Lakers struggled this year, that they wouldn't have thought about making a move for JJ? Especially since his old coach and his old PG was in LA? With the rumors about Pau Gasol not being a fit, I could've seen a scenario that saw the Lakers exploring a trade of Pau for JJ . . . straight up.

LA Lakers lineup

PG - Nash

G - Kobe

F - Johnson

PF - Artest / Hill

C - Howard

Atlanta Lineup

PG - Teague

G - Harris

F - Smith

PF - Howard

C - Gasol

( no Kyle Korver, because we acquired him with the trade exception from the JJ deal ).

Both teams could've been talked into making a deal like that, for the betterment of both teams.

North....we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I seriously can't stress enough how lucky we were to unload JJ - and I was a big supporter. Even when he got the contract. In the case of a player in the last year of his deal - you're looking at a fat expiring. In the case of a slightly overpaid guy, perhaps with some potential left, with a couple of years left on a bad contract...I'd give you that.

We are talking $23 smackadoodles...for a fading 2nd option...for 3 years... That is what you call a cap KILLA. Would ANYBODY in here take that deal were you a GM? ANYBODY? Ferry did his part, but I'm sorry dude...that was the perfect storm. A team trying to appease it's star, moving into a new town, with a billionaire backer drooling over his new toy? There was a significant amount of luck involved there from my point of view. There is no amount of logic that anybody can present to me otherwise. Am I happy about it?

You should have seen my jaw the day I read the headline...it literally felt UNREAL.

I want to make two points about a comment you made in this post. I have bolded the paragraph I am referencing.

I'm not sure how you can gut the team anymore than what they did without making moves to tank the season. There were only five players on this year's team that was on last year's team. Al Horford, Josh Smith, Jeff Teague, Zaza Pachulia, and Ivan Johnson. The players that were added to this team were not the overaged band aids that Ferry acquired in Cleveland to placate LeBron James. These were not moves like signing Antawn Jamison, trading for Shaq....etc.

The Hawks basically made moves, with the exception of Lou Williams, to bring in players on one year deals. Most of the time, that ends up backfiring, the players don't mesh well, and you end up losing because of it. I think most underestimated how much of an impact someone like Kyle Korver's shooting ability would have, and I know most definitely overestimated the impact Joe Johnson's scoring had on the team. Most fans overestimate the impact of scoring, as in PPG type scoring, anyway.

The other point I want to make is that tanking rarely works. If trading off all the good players so we can suck for a higher pick is what you were hinting at, then that is probably the worst plan someone could come up with. There have been studies upon studies about this, and teams very rarely go from being terrible to being championship caliber. You have to be lucky when doing this and end up being the team that gets a LeBron James or a Dwight Howard with that draft pick. There is a reason the teams in the lottery tend to be the same teams year after year. Plus, this season, there isn't a prospect in the draft worth tanking to get even if tanking was a sound strategy, which it isn't. The same studies show that it is easier to go from good to great than it is to go from terrible to great.

The last time the Hawks had cap room, they did not spend the money wisely. They maxed out a player that was not worth maxing out.

This time around, the Hawks have a chance to max out a couple of players that deserve it, but they also have a chance to be smart with their money and bring in guys who will outproduce the contracts they get.

Essentially, what they need to do is stay away from the likes of Al Jefferson and focus on getting players like Nikola Pekovic.

KB, I have a different way of looking at things. Firstly, I'm a computer/network analyst. To fix problems, I look for trends and behaviors. Sometimes you can quantify it with something tangible, sometimes you just have to pay attention to the behavior; because computer logic mandates a predictable pattern and when you don't get the proper pattern, your starting point is to analyze the behavior.

It's no different with how teams perform on court and how the business side is handled.

What I'm looking at with the Hawks and Danny Ferry is not "tanking" per se. I mean, guess you could call it that...but losing to get the top pick in the draft is not a concern for me. Honeslty, that's just faulty logic and a flawed plan.

The reality is very simple. Looking at the trends or behaviors of the league over the past 30 something years...you notice what winners have in common. They all take different paths to get to the final four (rebounding, defense, leadership, expert shooting, dominant post presence), but the common denominator is simply phenomenal talent. You don't get to the next level without it.

When you are not at "contender" status, and you are not in "up and coming" status, your single-minded focus needs to be...acquiring. phenominal. talent. Playoffs are fun, but this is a secondary or even a non-existent concern. The idea here is that you are in full blown rebuild mode and every move you make reveals as much. In which case....

Josh is GONE. *poof* He's not a part of the rebuild. You won't get anything for him in a SnT and you might even risk injury stringing him through the season. Maybe you wait until the trade deadline to evaluate him, but just like the playoffs, he becomes a NON-factor and you move him. Honestly, anybody who has watched Josh knows exactly what he is, what he's doing wrong, and why he's doing it that way. I don't see how Ferry does NOT see that...being y'know a millionaire GM former NBA basketball player himself...whose sole job it is to evaluate basketball teams and make them better. Not criticizing...just saying, If we can see it...DF should have DAMN well been able to see it.

Korver is a specialist. Maybe some folks underestimated him, but I did not. I watched him do it in Philly, Utha, and I watched him do it to US when we played Chicago. I knew what he could do and I knew what he would do for this team - space the floor and allow Devin, Teague, Horf, and Smoove to go to work.

Lou is instant offense. You drop JJ's 18 or so PPG, and you pick up a guy that can give you 15-18.

Now, you combine those two pickups, with Devin Harris (who is another capable player I have coveted for years), with keeping Smoove around, and a team that is already decent enough to make the playoffs....the signal that you're sending isn't "rebuild"...the signal your sending is "we are going to the playoffs". I'm not saying that's a bad thing or that I was disappointed. There was just ultimately no point to it...and I was curious and concened.

I saw what DF was doing in Cleveland. I watched that team because I really liked LeBron - I used to be a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE LeBron fan. I couldn't figure out if it was simply pressure to "win now" or if it was a poorly thought out evaluation of the parts he brought in. One thing is for certain, from Hughes to Shaq to Jamison to Mo...i was not even slightly excited about a single move. To the contrary, I found myself scratching my head at every choice...the same way I lifted an eyebrow when we added Korver and Lou and kept Josh.

Now...maybe it could just be adding talent for the future, I will concede that. Could just be stockpiling assets that expire for cap space. Looks good to me. I'm still with you here. He wanted to evaluate Josh for a full year.......ehhh...ok. I guess.

But if we don't land the big fish this off season...and we start building with Iggy's and Jeffersons (even though I like Al)................I'm going to jump down off the fence and start doomsaying again. Full speed.

Because I know trends, I know behaviors, and I know where that sort of basketball management methodology is going.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Wretch