The San Antonio Spur Model.

[KB21]

I think the points about the Spurs way of doing thing is VERY valid. There is a very straightforward way they build their teams that I really like. It's just a no-nonsense philosophy.... I'd ***LOVE*** to see Josh Smith playing for San Antonio. lol It would be classic, but no way we'd see the same kind of shit he does out there.

On the flipside of that though...don't get it twisted. Talent wins games. You can have all the discipline, coaching, support, hard work....but players like LeBron James will still come in your house, slap you around, kiss your wife, and then use your bathroom without washing his hands before he leaves. You better have a weapon to take him out with. In the NBA, that's called elite/franchise/star talent.

We need the Spurs philosophy and we need talent.

There is only one player like LeBron though, and that is LeBron.

No other player in the NBA can effect the game the way he does. If your goal is to get another LeBron, then good luck. He's a once in a generation player, and even he couldn't win a title by himself.

Chris Paul has not had any playoff success.

Dwight Howard has had one year where he had significant playoff success.

Kevin Durant is probably the 2nd best player in the game. He's sitting at home watching the games right now.

Carmelo Anthony is a media creation as a star player, and he's sitting at home.

Yes, talent is what wins games. 6-7 really good players playing together as a team will always beat a team with one great player and a bunch of mediocre players around him.

Right now, Indiana is pushing a Miami team with a once a generation player and two very good players surrounded by a bunch of mediocre players to the brink. Indiana is a team that doesn't have a star. Roy Hibbert is a very good player. David West is a very good player. Paul George is a very good player. George Hill is a very good player. Lance Stephenson is a developing player.

[Admin]

HOF is not based on just NBA and Manu dominated international ball. Gold medals over Team USA no less, Eurocup MVPs and championships and this is all before we discuss his NBA career. Parker is the only questionable member but he has the rings, Finals MVP, All Star/NBA selections from just the first half of his career so if he continues on the current tear he's been on he can certainly solidify himself.The Spurs don't so much have a model as a culture. They've switched styles on numerous occasions from inside pound em out to wide open shooting to up tempo run and gun, twin towers, small ball, etc. What they've maintained throughout is the need for perfect fits over just collecting talent. You'll notice that they have very little duplication in positions because of this.

I wonder whether the tool on Basketball-Reference includes what Manu did overseas as you are right he does have quite a list of accomplishments outside of the NBA.

[vdunkndunk]

I definitely see what Diesel's saying: Tim Duncan is the most essential ingredient to the success of the Spurs, and you don't get many chances to land a player like that.

On the other hand, though, they acquired Tony Parker and Manu and even Kawhi Leonard later in the draft based on great scouting and/or their use of analytics, so that part of the Spurs method may be portable. Also, they play a great brand of basketball that I think can be taught, and they've been very good for a very long time (with a lot of different parts and players), so they've mastered the art of filling out a roster, developing players, and surrounding their core with complimentary parts without ruining long-term flexibility.

So I think all of that bodes well for us if we can duplicate it - but ultimately we still need to find a way to land a superstar or two.

[Wretch]

There is only one player like LeBron though, and that is LeBron.

No other player in the NBA can effect the game the way he does. If your goal is to get another LeBron, then good luck. He's a once in a generation player, and even he couldn't win a title by himself.

Chris Paul has not had any playoff success.

Dwight Howard has had one year where he had significant playoff success.

Kevin Durant is probably the 2nd best player in the game. He's sitting at home watching the games right now.

Carmelo Anthony is a media creation as a star player, and he's sitting at home.

Yes, talent is what wins games. 6-7 really good players playing together as a team will always beat a team with one great player and a bunch of mediocre players around him.

Right now, Indiana is pushing a Miami team with a once a generation player and two very good players surrounded by a bunch of mediocre players to the brink. Indiana is a team that doesn't have a star. Roy Hibbert is a very good player. David West is a very good player. Paul George is a very good player. George Hill is a very good player. Lance Stephenson is a developing player.

Perhaps it's the rhetoric that I use that misleads people about my opinion, but let me just state for the record that I simply do not have that narrow minded, short sighted, starry-eyed, casual appreciation for "superstar" talent. So when I say that LeBron is coming into your house...I don't simply mean that LeBron James is going to play you 82 times in a year and he will beat you.

There are always a gang of elite players that will assemble and they will put you to the test. If you do not have the proper response for those kinds of players, you will lose. You CAN assemble a "blue collar" type of team, but when good defenses clamp down, you are likely to lose.

You don't need an all Pro or one of the top 5 players in the NBA to be successful - I do not believe in that sort of thinking. That's stupid and shortsighted. Not only that, but there are only so many LEGENDARY players playing at one time. You will face them though and you are likely to face them on the way to the big games.

In which case, you need to assemble a cast of characters capable of punching back. If not a *fancy music and trumpets* legendary player of your own...then something at least a tier better than JJ/Horf/Smoove. As well, I think people underestimate Paul George and the Pacers in the same way they underestimated the potency of the "Detroit Model" Pistons. I've been high on the Pacers for a few years now...that is FAR from an underpowered team. It's just their superior defense that throws people off.

[MaceCase]

I wonder whether the tool on Basketball-Reference includes what Manu did overseas as you are right he does have quite a list of accomplishments outside of the NBA.

I'd doubt it. They probably use data from their own database (NBA, NCAA too, I think) to define the probabilities.

[Admin]

Excellent post Wretched one! And thank you for finally admitting that you've been high for a few years now!

I've been a huge fan of the Pacers and knew this was coming since 3 years ago when they pushed the Bulls as hard as they could be pushed before finally bowing out in 5 very hard fought games. That was a team of babies plus Granger and a rookie head coach with 38 games under his belt come playoff time. But the Pacers do have some elite 2-way talent in Paul George and Hibbert(s) is a pretty damned good player too who is getting better and better at just the right time and does it on both ends. They've got West who plays his role perfectly on both ends of the floor and then they've got 2 very solid complimentary players in George Hill (former Spur) and Lance Stephenson who works his tail off.

If we can model ourselves after the Pacers and the Spurs then we will be in damn good shape!

I'd doubt it. They probably use data from their own database (NBA, NCAA too, I think) to define the probabilities.

If that's the case, and it probably is, then considering he's a borderline HOF with just his NBA credentials then he's a lock based on his international play.

[Guest]

Professional Basketball Champion. Only player on our current roster that can put that on their resume is Deshawn, so you know he is in good company.

[Admin]

Professional Basketball Champion. Only player on our current roster that can put that on their resume is Deshawn, so you know he is in good company.

But he's an expiring so what can we do with that?

[MaceCase]

Last I checked, Deshawn has 2 years left *whistles*

[TheFuzz]

Agree with the idea that it's more of a culture or attitude than a model. Fluid offensive systems run by high-character players (acquired via smart trades, signings and draft picks) and a sharp coaching staff enforcing a winning culture. The Spurs tanked for Timmy, but otherwise they simply refuse to lose.

Edit: I'm pretty sure Stevenson's deal isn't guaranteed after this year, but it is indeed a 3 year deal.

Edited May 29, 2013 by TheFuzz

[DrReality]

They have great players, but a great system makes all players better. He said players would know their role and what is expected. Conveyed confidence and leadership in a calm assertive manner

[Kimsey]

The SA model is to tank for a 1st pick aka Duncan. I prefer the Pacers model. They get rid of Granger for a Batum type of wing and they are the class of the East.

[Diesel]

I think the Pacers are close to a Spurs model ( way of doing things ) and it is working for them. Integrity and work ethic go a long way no matter what field of work you are in.

And I have never seen Dwight even close to looking as out of shape as Shaq was in Lakerland at the start of every season. I would say D12 works hard even in the off season.

The Pacers have one thing in common with the Spurs... They are well coached. They are no where near as talented. They cannot even be called a poor man's Spurs. I see no hall of famers on the Pacers team. However, they have great coaching.

[Diesel]

I definitely see what Diesel's saying: Tim Duncan is the most essential ingredient to the success of the Spurs, and you don't get many chances to land a player like that.

On the other hand, though, they acquired Tony Parker and Manu and even Kawhi Leonard later in the draft based on great scouting and/or their use of analytics, so that part of the Spurs method may be portable. Also, they play a great brand of basketball that I think can be taught, and they've been very good for a very long time (with a lot of different parts and players), so they've mastered the art of filling out a roster, developing players, and surrounding their core with complimentary parts without ruining long-term flexibility.

So I think all of that bodes well for us if we can duplicate it - but ultimately we still need to find a way to land a superstar or two.

I give the Spurs all the credit in the world for their ability to draft talent... especially in the late rounds.

Let's look closely:

Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 2012 NBA 2 59 Marcus Denmon University of Missouri Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 2011 NBA 1 29 Cory Joseph University of Texas at Austin 2011 NBA 2 59 Adam Hanga Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 2010 NBA 1 20 James Anderson Oklahoma State University 2010 NBA 2 49 Ryan Richards Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 2009 NBA 2 37 DeJuan Blair University of Pittsburgh 2009 NBA 2 51 Jack McClinton University of Miami 2009 NBA 2 53 Nando De Colo Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 2008 NBA 1 26 George Hill Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis 2008 NBA 2 45 Goran Dragic 2008 NBA 2 57 James Gist University of Maryland Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 2007 NBA 1 28 Tiago Splitter 2007 NBA 2 33 Marcus Williams University of Arizona 2007 NBA 2 58 Giorgos Printezis Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 2006 NBA 2 59 Damir Markota Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 2005 NBA 1 28 Ian Mahinmi Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 2004 NBA 1 28 Beno Udrih 2004 NBA 2 52 Romain Sato Xavier University 2004 NBA 2 57 Sergei Karaulov Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 2003 NBA 1 28 Leandro Barbosa Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 2002 NBA 1 26 John Salmons University of Miami 2002 NBA 2 55 Luis Scola 2002 NBA 2 56 Randy Holcomb San Diego State University Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 2001 NBA 1 28 Tony Parker 2001 NBA 2 55 Robertas Javtokas 2001 NBA 2 57 Bryan Bracey University of Oregon Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 2000 NBA 2 41 Chris Carrawell Duke University 2000 NBA 2 54 Corey Hightower Indian Hills Community College Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 1999 NBA 1 29 Leon Smith 1999 NBA 2 57 Manu Ginobili Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 1998 NBA 1 24 Felipe Lopez St. John's University 1998 NBA 2 52 Derrick Dial Eastern Michigan University Year Lg Rd Pk Player College 1997 NBA 1 1 Tim Duncan Wake Forest University

In other words, it's rare to find a first round bust and they have had a few good second round picks like Scola, Manu, and Dragic. Their overseas scouting is great.

However, it all begins and ends with that first pick overall in 1997 (that was given to them by the league).

[Gray Mule]

A great Architect must have a great blueprint in order to produce the great

structure that gets people's attention.

No matter how great the blueprints and architect are, without the proper

materials to construct the edifice, it can't possibly turn out blue ribbon perfect.

Not every NBA team has a Tim D. or King James on their roster. There are,

however, more than two teams who may, in any given season, drive toward the

championship. They are in this position, not because of one great player but

because of their blueprint and architect.

It seems to me that the Hawks may, at last, have parts of the necessary ingredients

in place that they may be more than the joke of the NBA. Some of the parts we have

right now. Materials for our construction must be added. These come by way of the

draft and free agency.

It might be foolish to expect immediate super results. I don't think any true Hawk fan

expects us to win the NBA championship next season. Building the edifice we desire

is going to be time consuming.

The question is, "How far away are we from greatness?" Remember, this past season

we were expected, by those "experts" that abound, to be a high lottery team, perhaps

not much better than our 13 win season in our recent past. Yet, with what we had, the

playoffs were reached. Sure we fell on our face when we arrived but we were there!

If you can't get excited about what we have and where we're going, how can you call

yourself a real Hawk fan?

GO HAWKS!!

[Guest]

A great Architect must have a great blueprint in order to produce the greatstructure that gets people's attention. No matter how great the blueprints and architect are, without the propermaterials to construct the edifice, it can't possibly turn out blue ribbon perfect. Not every NBA team has a Tim D. or King James on their roster. There are,however, more than two teams who may, in any given season, drive toward thechampionship. They are in this position, not because of one great player butbecause of their blueprint and architect. It seems to me that the Hawks may, at last, have parts of the necessary ingredientsin place that they may be more than the joke of the NBA. Some of the parts we haveright now. Materials for our construction must be added. These come by way of the draft and free agency. It might be foolish to expect immediate super results. I don't think any true Hawk fanexpects us to win the NBA championship next season. Building the edifice we desireis going to be time consuming. The question is, "How far away are we from greatness?" Remember, this past seasonwe were expected, by those "experts" that abound, to be a high lottery team, perhapsnot much better than our 13 win season in our recent past. Yet, with what we had, theplayoffs were reached. Sure we fell on our face when we arrived but we were there! If you can't get excited about what we have and where we're going, how can you callyourself a real Hawk fan? GO HAWKS!!

As an architect - I concur.

[macdaddy]

As an architect - I concur.

Damn JayBird. An architect, basketball expert, hawks fan, AND pee in the shower. You can't be real. Next you'll claim to like the 3 stooges.

[Duff_Man]

However, it all begins and ends with that first pick overall in 1997 (that was given to them by the league).

They won 20 games the year before. They won the lottery. They didn't tank (Robinson went down and Nique was their best player), and the league did not award them anything. That thinking is absurd.

[Guest]

Damn JayBird. An architect, basketball expert, hawks fan, AND pee in the shower. You can't be real. Next you'll claim to like the 3 stooges.

I'm as real as can be and I do like the 3 stooges. Was s staple for my dad back in the day.

[Gray Mule]

JayBirdHawk:

You're just the right age. I believe I should adopt you

for another grand daughter!