The "All-In" approach

[Dragitoff]

I have a question for those far more knowledgable than me on this. In order for the Hawks to sign guys like Paul and Howard, wouldn't they have to first renounce all our FA's thus making it a very risky proposition? In other words, we either make QO to the restricted FA's and miss out on Paul and Howard unless our RFA sign with a team before they do or we just flat out renounce all our FA's including the UFA to leave our cap space available for them. According to the report that cap may be at $58.5 million roughly, that means we would only be able to offer each Paul and Howard about $17.5 million each barring a trade.

Paul $17.5

Howard $17.5

Horford $12.0

Williams $5.23

Jenkins $1.30

2-1st round picks $2.6

Tyler cap hold $0.10

That's $56.23 for 7 roster spaces. Fill out the rest with min. salaries ($0.49 each) to 12 slots and you're at $58.68 million. We could use our 2-2nd round picks and sign vet mins. to fill out the roster, but the way I understand it is, even a guy like Ivan couldn't be offered his QO in order to do this. Am I understanding this correctly?

[NBASupes]

I have a question for those far more knowledgable than me on this. In order for the Hawks to sign guys like Paul and Howard, wouldn't they have to first renounce all our FA's thus making it a very risky proposition? In other words, we either make QO to the restricted FA's and miss out on Paul and Howard unless our RFA sign with a team before they do or we just flat out renounce all our FA's including the UFA to leave our cap space available for them. According to the report that cap may be at $58.5 million roughly, that means we would only be able to offer each Paul and Howard about $17.5 million each barring a trade.

Paul $17.5

Howard $17.5

Horford $12.0

Williams $5.23

Jenkins $1.30

2-1st round picks $2.6

Tyler cap hold $0.10

That's $56.23 for 7 roster spaces. Fill out the rest with min. salaries ($0.49 each) to 12 slots and you're at $58.68 million. We could use our 2-2nd round picks and sign vet mins. to fill out the roster, but the way I understand it is, even a guy like Ivan couldn't be offered his QO in order to do this. Am I understanding this correctly?

For your totals, that would be correct. I would put Scott and Mack contract in as it seems Atlanta wants them for next year. So Dwight and CP3 will have to take less than that. But we still have a full MLE which we can over the salary cap for. That could fill our void at SF.

[Dragitoff]

For your totals, that would be correct. I would put Scott and Mack contract in as it seems Atlanta wants them for next year. So Dwight and CP3 will have to take less than that. But we still have a full MLE which we can over the salary cap for. That could fill our void at SF.

Regardless of a few minor discrepencies on the numbers (especially since I rounded alot), what about the basis of my main question? Wouldn't the Hawks have to officially renounce every FA (let's say sans Mack and Scott) in order to go after these guys? That would then mean we wouldn't be able to re-sign guys we might want if D12 and CP3 don't sign here like Teague, Korver, Ivan, Zaza, etc...? Hence the meaning of my title "All-in approach"

[Admin]

Is this the opposite of the "pull out" approach?

[Admin]

Regardless of a few minor discrepencies on the numbers (especially since I rounded alot), what about the basis of my main question? Wouldn't the Hawks have to officially renounce every FA (let's say sans Mack and Scott) in order to go after these guys? That would then mean we wouldn't be able to re-sign guys we might want if D12 and CP3 don't sign here like Teague, Korver, Ivan, Zaza, etc...? Hence the meaning of my title "All-in approach"

Yes we would renounce anyone we don't want bird rights on. Teague is the only one I'd worry about losing with that approach but that's only a concern if we don't get CP3. I'm 100% certain that scot is coming back after how Budz praised him. He's going to have a nice future coming off the bench for us.

[Guest]

I love the titles of threads on Hawksquawk. Keeps me smiling all day :-) Great humor.

[Dragitoff]

Yes we would renounce anyone we don't want bird rights on. Teague is the only one I'd worry about losing with that approach but that's only a concern if we don't get CP3. I'm 100% certain that scot is coming back after how Budz praised him. He's going to have a nice future coming off the bench for us.

But wouldn't we have to renounce Teague as well or can we withdraw our QO? Obviously we could just wait until he signs an offer sheet and refuse to accept it, but if he signed it with another team that wanted to make things difficult for us, they could hold off and draw it out or something. Just thinking about what the ramifications of each move would mean.

Is this the opposite of the "pull out" approach?

You're terrible Dolf! lol

[Admin]

But wouldn't we have to renounce Teague as well or can we withdraw our QO? Obviously we could just wait until he signs an offer sheet and refuse to accept it, but if he signed it with another team that wanted to make things difficult for us, they could hold off and draw it out or something. Just thinking about what the ramifications of each move would mean. You're terrible Dolf! lol

We can withdraw the QO anytime as long as Teague hasn't signed it yet. I think his QO is something like $4.3 million, if I remember HF correctly on that one. Teague will more than likely to accept the QO but as long as we offer it we can still have the right to match any offer he gets. If it gets to the point where we know CP3 is signing with us then we simply withdraw it, which would mean we could no longer guarantee being able to match a Teague offer. Teague would be an UFA but he could give us the chance to match if he wanted to. If we sign CP3 I see that as highly unlikely though.Yes sir you set em up and I will knock em down!

[Dragitoff]

We can withdraw the QO anytime as long as Teague hasn't signed it yet. I think his QO is something like $4.3 million, if I remember HF correctly on that one. Teague will more than likely to accept the QO but as long as we offer it we can still have the right to match any offer he gets. If it gets to the point where we know CP3 is signing with us then we simply withdraw it, which would mean we could no longer guarantee being able to match a Teague offer. Teague would be an UFA but he could give us the chance to match if he wanted to. If we sign CP3 I see that as highly unlikely though.

So it's still a dangerous game. While it's expected that Teague wouldn't sign the QO, he realistically could and we'd be forced to trade Lou and use Teague as our 6th man which might not be terrible, but we'd get very little for Lou since teams would know we're essentially stuck and only teams under the cap (meaning the same teams that are most likely suitors for CP3 and D12) would be able to take him on without sending us salaries back (future picks only)

[Admin]

So it's still a dangerous game. While it's expected that Teague wouldn't sign the QO, he realistically could and we'd be forced to trade Lou and use Teague as our 6th man which might not be terrible, but we'd get very little for Lou since teams would know we're essentially stuck and only teams under the cap (meaning the same teams that are most likely suitors for CP3 and D12) would be able to take him on without sending us salaries back (future picks only)

He could but its highly unlikely as he'd be signing to come off the bench, take less than he would get on the open market, and it would only be a 1 year deal. That's very unlikely to happen.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Regardless of a few minor discrepencies on the numbers (especially since I rounded alot), what about the basis of my main question? Wouldn't the Hawks have to officially renounce every FA (let's say sans Mack and Scott) in order to go after these guys? That would then mean we wouldn't be able to re-sign guys we might want if D12 and CP3 don't sign here like Teague, Korver, Ivan, Zaza, etc...? Hence the meaning of my title "All-in approach"

Yes. And that's why Ferry needs to have a good idea of if he has a good shot to get Howard and/or Paul, before free agency even starts.

We might play a game, in which we try to hold onto certain guys for as long as we can, before renouncing them. The problem with that, is that as soon as someone submits an offer sheet to one of our guys, we'll have 3 days to match the offer, or lose them for nothing. I'm specifically talking about Jeff Teague and Ivan Johnson, in that case.

Our hand could be forced right away on Teague, if someone gives him an offer sheet right when free agency starts. SMH . . . what if Milwaukee decides that they don't want Jennings back, and decides to throw Teague an offer sheet? I can see Drew now talking about . . "go get the kid in Atlanta."

Now of course, Teague doesn't have to sign the offer sheet. But I don't know if he's going to play around with someone offering him his first big money deal, and wait to see what the Hawks are going to do. And a guy like Ivan definitely isn't going to wait, if he gets a 2 yr - 4 million deal from somebody. He's taking the money, regardless of who offers it.

So yeah. Ferry can't play around with a quest to get Howard and Paul, if he really doesn't have a shot at them. He needs to know really by draft day, if he has a good shot to land those two.

The scenario that's still most likely to go down, is for Dwight to re-sign with the Lakers, and Paul to re-sign with the Clippers. The Hawks need to properly plan for that, which I'm sure they're doing.