Rodman says Jordan would average 40 today and LeBron would be average in the 90's

[Admin]

Is Rodman crazy? Sure I think MJ would absolutely dominate in today's NBA and that he was a far superior player to LeBron, but I think LeBron would have adjusted to the more physical play and would have still been a superstar. He only whines about calls now because that's the NBA that he's grown up in. Rodman is absolutely right that the Bulls would have killed this Heat team.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/9353089/dennis-rodman-says-lebron-james-average-played-90s

Dennis Rodman says LeBron James would be "average" if he played in the 1990s, and insists James' Miami Heat would be no match for his old Chicago Bulls team.

"It's really not a comparison. If LeBron was playing in the late '80s and early '90s he would be just an average player," Rodman said Friday on "The Dan Patrick Show." "To do what Michael has done ... what he did was more charisma, there was more articulating and stuff like that. LeBron is more like ... there's no flash to his game. He's a great player, don't get me wrong, he's a hell of player, I'll give him that. But to me Scottie (Pippen) and Michael are probably the two best 1-2 punches I've ever seen."

"I'm just sick and tired of people comparing (James) to Michael Jordan," Rodman said. "It's a whole different era, man."Rodman, who won three NBA titles with Jordan's Bulls from 1996-98, said a 28-year-old Jordan would average at least 40 points a game in today's NBA.

Rodman said Jordan thrived despite playing in a more physical era in the NBA.

"LeBron came into the age of the game at a perfect time. Michael came into the game when back then you could hit people, knock him down, shoot a free throw and get back up," Rodman said. "And LeBron can't do that. All they do today is (complain) about a foul. All they do is (complain)."

James, who has been to the NBA Finals in each of his three seasons in Miami, won his first title last season. The Heat lost Game 1 of the Finals to the San Antonio Spurs on Thursday.

Rodman believes his best Bulls team would easily defeat James' Heat.

"It would be no contest. The Heat has better talent than we had, but we had smarter players," Rodman said. "That's the only thing we had, smarter players. ... I would take Bosh out of his damn game easy. That's not even a problem. And how would Dwyane Wade match up with Scottie Pippen? Really? And Scottie Pippen would guard LeBron easy. And how are you going to cover those two guys (Jordan and Pippen)?"

[NBASupes]

Zone defenses, the length and agility of the players, the slower pace. If MJ is averaging 40PPG which is highly unlikely, his team is losing in the 1st round. NBA defenses are too good to allow other wise. Even flawed teams like the Bucks.

I think MJ is a bit overrated but that is a different subject for a different day. That has zero to do with the Hawks so I will keep my opinion to myself.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Leadership

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Automatic message This topic has been moved from "HomeCourt" to "Around the NBA".

[Admin]

Automatic message

This topic has been moved from "HomeCourt" to "Around the NBA".

[Admin]

I only posted this here because it's a historical discussion about the NBA, comparing teams and players over a generational gap. If you don't like it then :haha:

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

lol, but I have thought about this topic myself. I don't know about LBJ being just an average player in the '90's although I believe he would be MJ's little brother. The league was so much different then because the league was rougher and no one ever flopped. All of these new rules that are enforced today has softened the league. Also, players were loyal back then.

I believe LBJ would have been fine because then they had illegal defense so zone D was against the rules. LBJ would kill guys one on one. To flip the argument, I believe MJ would be about the same as Kobe during the Shaq years, so really just look at LBJ vs. Kobe for the answer of LBJ vs. MJ.

[Admin]

lol, but I have thought about this topic myself. I don't know about LBJ being just an average player in the '90's although I believe he would be MJ's little brother. The league was so much different then because the league was rougher and no one ever flopped. All of these new rules that are enforced today has softened the league. Also, players were loyal back then.

I believe LBJ would have been fine because then they had illegal defense so zone D was against the rules. LBJ would kill guys one on one. To flip the argument, I believe MJ would be about the same as Kobe during the Shaq years, so really just look at LBJ vs. Kobe for the answer of LBJ vs. MJ.

MJ was better than Kobe, a lot better IMO. Even in this softer era Kobe has a career eFG% of .487 while MJ, even with those 2 horrific years in Washington, had a career eFG% of .510. In his 3rd year MJ averaged 37 points per game and had a career average of 30 so I definitely think he'd average 40 in today's NBA. You couldn't defend him with man defense and good luck zoning up on him as he would have been a deadly 3pt shooter if all he had to do was catch and shoot against zone defenses. I know he was never a great 3pt shooter but that was going against the best defender on the other team in man defense so he rarely ever had wide open shots.

I'm not sure that anyone, even Pippen, could have stopped LeBron from scoring and sure they could have given him hard fouls but he's what 6'9 240 lbs and pure muscle? I have a feeling he could have handled it.

[Wretch]

Automatic message

This topic has been moved from "HomeCourt" to "Around the NBA".

^^epic lol

...and LOL at King Dolf! I think with the offseason and the NBA finals, a little of this "around the NBA" talk is cool.

On the subject, Rodman is wrong about LeBron, but he's not wrong about the Bulls. LeBron is like a bus playing point forward. He'd not be as effective scoring, so they'd use him at PG me thinks and he would be Magic 2.0. No doubt he could still get 20+ ppg. He's just too big, too fast, and too athletic. Hate recognizes hate....and I'm a big Bron hater. Rodman is hating.

But Pippen would shut LeBron down and MJ would shut DWade down. Bosh already hides from the paint, so Rodman would just average like...20 rebounds against them. On the other end, there ain't shit the Heat could do with Pip/Jordan. Nada. They'd kill 'em. That team was a special kind of awesome and MJ was a special player.

Michael Jordan could make baskets from ANYWHERE on the court. He's the only player I've ever seen that can just win it on jumpshots. I mean, this is a dude that would posterize you with a f***in' jumpshot!

MJ was a ridiculously talented player. Completely unstoppable.

[Admin]

^^epic lol

...and LOL at King Dolf! I think with the offseason and the NBA finals, a little of this "around the NBA" talk is cool.

On the subject, Rodman is wrong about LeBron, but he's not wrong about the Bulls. LeBron is like a bus playing point forward. He'd not be as effective scoring, so they'd use him at PG me thinks and he would be Magic 2.0. No doubt he could still get 20+ ppg. He's just too big, too fast, and too athletic. Hate recognizes hate....and I'm a big Bron hater. Rodman is hating.

But Pippen would shut LeBron down and MJ would shut DWade down. Bosh already hides from the paint, so Rodman would just average like...20 rebounds against them. On the other end, there ain't shit the Heat could do with Pip/Jordan. Nada. They'd kill 'em. That team was a special kind of awesome and MJ was a special player.

Michael Jordan could make baskets from ANYWHERE on the court. He's the only player I've ever seen that can just win it on jumpshots. I mean, this is a dude that would posterize you with a f***in' jumpshot!

MJ was a ridiculously talented player. Completely unstoppable.

Totally agree about MJ and the Bulls and LeBron... but I don't think that Pippen would shut LeBron down.

[Guest]

This is so tough to compare. Would LBJ be the specimen then that he is now, he probably started lifting weights and working out at an early age but back then it wasn't like this with all the nutritionists, therapists, technology etc. I think LBJ's mindset then would be the same as the players then - he would know nothing different. LBJ would get clobbered on every dunk attempt and him not being a great free throw shooter would that have deterred him, most likely. Can you imagine MJ's body now with all of todays advances, etc.

MJ would have a field day with the no hand checking, he would easily bust a zone.

[Admin]

This is so tough to compare. Would LBJ be the specimen then that he is now, he probably started lifting weights and working out at an early age but back then it wasn't like this with all the nutritionists, therapists, technology etc. I think LBJ's mindset then would be the same as the players then - he would know nothing different. LBJ would get clobbered on every dunk attempt and him not being a great free throw shooter would that have deterred him, most likely. Can you imagine MJ's body now with all of todays advances, etc.

MJ would have a field day with the no hand checking, he would easily bust a zone.

Steroids and HGH were just as widely used if not more so during the MJ era so I think that LeBron, who was created in a petri dish, would have been just as big if not bigger.

[AHawks89]

LeBronda wouldn't be near the same player. As JBH stated, different rules, era, technology, nutritionist, etc. I think I even remember MJ saying he could average 50+ in todays NBA. Hell, look what MJ did with the Wizards back then.

No. 23 : On Feb. 3, 2002, a 38-year old Jordan scored 23 and beat Indiana on11/19 shooting and 1/1 from three point range. He also grabbed five rebounds and dished six assists.

No. 22 : Again, Indiana was the victim. This time, Jordan scorched them for 41 points on 14/26 shooting, 3/4 three's, and 10/12 from the line. He also grabbed 12 rebounds, had four assists and three steals. Wizards win.

No. 21 : On April 12, 2003, the 40-year-old Jordan and the Wizards lost to Atlanta. Jordan, though, had an all-around great game. He scored 17 points, grabbed eight boards, and had six assists to go with a steal and a block. He did this all in 30 minutes!

No. 20 : On Feb. 4, 2003, nearing his 40th birthday, MJ spearheaded a win against Cleveland by scoring 27 points on 13/26 shooting. He also grabbed four rebounds, had eight assists, four steals and a block.

No. 19 : On Nov. 3, 2001 (his third game back), a 38 year-old Jordan scored 20 points on Philadelphia in a Wizards win. In 38 minutes, he also passed off for nine assists, grabbed six rebounds, had two steals and a block.

No. 18 : In his second game back, Jordan and the Wizards beat the Hawks when he played 40 minutes and scored 31 points. He also had six rebounds, six assists, and two steals.

No. 17 : In Detroit on Nov. 1, 2001 Jordan played an amazing defensive game. The Wizards won as Jordan, in 39 minutes, made all the difference with six steals, two blocks, four assists, nine rebounds, and 21 points.

No. 16 : In an all-around great performance on Jan 18, 2003, Jordan scored 25 points, grabbed eight boards, had seven assists, and an amazing five steals and one block in 42 minutes. Iverson got the last laugh, though, as the 76ers won.

No. 15 : Against Milwaukee on Dec. 3, 2002, Jordan scored 25 points, had seven rebounds and four assists in only 30 minutes! The Wizards won handily.

No. 14 : In Memphis, one of the few times that city's fans would ever be able to see him play, Jordan put on a show; scoring 33 points in 35 minutes. He added five rebounds, two assists, and three steals in a convincing win. He went 14/23 from the field, and 2/3 from three point range.

No. 13 : The Sonics beat the Wizards on Nov. 12, 2002, but Jordan had a great individual game. He scored 27 points to go with six rebounds, four assists, one steal, and one block in only 31 minutes.

No. 12 : On Feb. 1, 2003, against the Hornets, Jordan put on a show. Just a few days before turning 40, Jordan scored 45 points on 18/33 shooting. He also had six assists and three rebounds with a block and a steal in 44 minutes. The Wizards won.

No. 11 : At the Clippers on Feb. 13, 2003, Jordan defied age with 23 points and 12 assists, six rebounds, two steals, and a block in 39 minutes. The Wizards won.

No. 10 : On Feb. 23, 2002, a 39 year-old Jordan scored 37 points on 13/25 shooting against Miami. He also had seven assists and five rebounds.

No. 9 : On Jan. 24, 2002, a 39 year-old Jordan schooled the Cavs again. This time, he scored 40 points in 40 minutes in the win. He also added eight rebounds, two assists, and two steals.

No. 8 : Again, Jordan bashed Atlanta with 28 points on Feb. 1, 2002. He grabbed four rebounds, eight assists, two steals, and two blocks in the win. Oh, what a game for MJ.

No. 7 : Orlando fell to Washington as Jordan led the way for the Wizards with 32 points on 12/25 shooting from the field and 8/10 from the line. He added six rebounds, eight assists, and two steals in the victory.

No. 6 : In 41 minutes against the Jazz, Jordan scored 44 points on 17/33 from the field. He also recorded seven rebounds, three assists, and one steal. In the end, though, the Jazz prevailed.

No. 5 : In Phoenix on Jan. 26, 2002 Jordan scored 41 points and hit the game winner. He made 17 of 30 shots. In 40 minutes, he added seven assists and four rebounds to go with two steals.

No. 4 : Jordan became the only player over 40 to ever score 40+ points in a game against N.J. on Feb. 21, 2003. He made 18/30 shots and 7/8 free throws in the win. He also had a double-double in the game by grabbing 10 rebounds to with four steals, three assists and a block.

Before Jordan, the record for points by a player over 40 was held by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar at 27 points.

No. 3 : Another record breaking game for MJ happened on Dec. 29, 2001 when the 38-year-old scored an astonishing 51 points against the Hornets. In only 38 minutes, Jordan set two records; the oldest player to ever score 50, and for most points in one quarter against the Hornets (24). At 38, Jordan made an unbelievable 21/38 shots and 9/10 free throws.

No. 2 : The game following the 51 point performance, Jordan scored 45 on N.J. In 39 minutes, Jordan had 10 rebounds, seven assists, and three steals.

No. 1 : Jordan's best game as a Wizard is often overlooked. He scored 21 points and added four rebounds, five assists, two steals, and one block...IN ONLY 21 MINUTES!!!

In these 23 games, he averaged 32.2 points per game, 6.5 rebounds per game, 5.7 assists per game, and 1.6 steals per game! The Wizards won 19 and lost four (82.6 percent wins)! Jordan shot 50.5 percent from the field!

Even as he aged, Jordan proved he was the greatest player ever. Eat your hearts out, Kobe and LeBron!

[Guest]

Old school (Jordan)>>> New school (Kobe,Lechoke)

[capstone21]

Lebron (although I am not a fan) is a special player who would be very dominant back in the 90s and 80s just as he is in the 2000s.

Jordan is still the greatest player of all time (imo) but Lebron when all said and done will be up there

[JTB]

No offense to lebron and I swear I'm not hating but I honestly don't see the greatness...offensively lebron is limited to me and as long as the refs call a fair game the spurs will prove this.Now don't get me wrong I see the superstar in lebron but when it comes to playing zone on him he is very limited in what he can do in my opinion. If the bulls had rosé I think they could have ended the heat and lebron.Lebron does not have the offensive skill set like Jordan and Kobe has had. His size is unreal yes but there has been players that can contain lebron very well in a zone for example Lou deng, Shawn Marion, deshawn Stevenson, even Paul George did good enough to maintain lebron in a zone defense.One on one lebron is eating players no doubt but so is Kobe, melo, etc. and even a healthy Howard.I think people are missing Rodmans main point! In the 90s basketball is more physical than it is now. If I throw lebron out there in the 90s he's no longer overpowering 90 percent of the league! Where as today these soft asses are to afraid to get in front of lebron when he's attacking the goal!I swear if some of these players would take more charges lebron would be messed up. It's no secret that lebron is a power player! He rarely uses and kind of offensive key moves. Lebron is shaq in today's league everything he does shows that he's more powerful than the guys in the league today.Lets not be foolish here! You think lebron is going to beast Karl Malone at the 4? Hell no!You guys think too highly of lebron he's easier to stop than Jordan and Kobe there's no argument to that! If I could coach the in the nba today I would been exposed lebron. Only physical teams like the pacers and bulls and spurs are going to be able to control him because they actually man up!In the 90s Jordan always had a physical matchup! Pistons, supersonics, jazz, Cleveland, Houston, Knicks, etc., etc, etc look it upTHIS ARGUMENT CAN BE PUT TO SLEEP! YOU GUYS HAVE TO FIRST REALIZE THAT IN THE 90S IT WAS PHYSICAL TEAMS VS PHYSICAL TEAMS 24/7 EVERY GAME. TODAY THERE'S ONLY 5 REAL PHYSICAL TEAMS....BULLS,PACERS,GRIZZ,SPURS,HEAT. Maybe it's the refs but there has to be a reason teams aren't as physical as they use to be then.

[Admin]

LeBron is only stopped because he has to share the basketball. I guarantee you there's not a man in this planet that could contain him in a regular basis if he just decided to really take over a game a dominate. Now I don't know that his team would win that type of game but font kid yourself JTB, nobody is going to slow him down. Pippen was too light at the 3 as LeBron had 30-40 lbs on him. Malone or any other traditional 4 would get left at the 3pt line trying to defend him. Sports Science did a thing showing LeBron is the fastest man in the NBA end to end and he is probably close to the strongest and close to jumping the highest. There has never been anybody in NBA history with his combination of size, speed and athleticism. We all know Cam Newton is a beast if a physical QB but he's 4" shorter and probably 10 lbs lighter than LeBron and Cam trained for months to run the 40 and had a 4.58 and just messing around LeBron ran a 4.6. I can't stand the guy as a person but he's a physical freak the likes of which we have never seen before.

[benhillboy]

I'll take LeBron over Jordan all day. Hell, give me Bird and Magic. All three can rebound, pass, and defend more shots/ more postiions. I idolized Jordan just as much as anybody else who was a young, impressionable basketball fan. But Phil Knight is responsible for so much overblown worship of Mike. His left hand finish, pass, and dribble was far behind his strong hand. Steph Curry is already beyond Jordan's ambidexterity. Kobe's three ball at his peak puts Jordan's to shame, let alone making more Finals appearances and a much more impressive tenure at a high level. LeBron has double Jordan's playoff triple doubles and made the Finals at a younger age. Besides the Lakers team on its last leg that he dominated, he didn't beat any great teams in route to his last 5 championships. Drexler, Porter, Kersey? No. Payton, Shrempf, Kemp? Try again. Barkley, Johnson, and Majerle? Seriosly. Stockton, Malone, and who else? And who was Jordan guarding in all those series? The PG and he was the main help defender down low. Pippen took the toughest wing assignments, like Kobe and LeBron have been doing for years. You think Phil is gonna stick Melo with Jordan in the post in the fourth quarter (I know some of you are like "yes!", youre crazy.). You wanna say he was the best scorer of All-Time, no argument whatsoever. Wide gap above anybody else, even my boy Kobe. But best player ever, after Isiah trampled him for the first half of his career and Magic and Bird were trading championships without a second thought of him? Tell somebody else that mess. It's a slap in the face to Magic, Bird, Oscar, Russell, Havlicek ( who never gets any mention at all with only 8 rings at 21-6-5), West, Wilt, Baylor, Duncan, and the Bulls organization who gets treated like they did nothing to help win. I could go on and on. People act like his resume is flawless. Far from it. Lets see him take all that basketball acumen and pull himself up from being the worst executive in the NBA.

Edited June 7, 2013 by benhillboy

[Plainview1981]

Is Rodman crazy? Sure I think MJ would absolutely dominate in today's NBA and that he was a far superior player to LeBron, but I think LeBron would have adjusted to the more physical play and would have still been a superstar. He only whines about calls now because that's the NBA that he's grown up in. Rodman is absolutely right that the Bulls would have killed this Heat team.

All of these guys have been saying dumb stuff lately.

[Admin]

Oh Bennie you make me laugh!

[Wretch]

LeBron is only stopped because he has to share the basketball. I guarantee you there's not a man in this planet that could contain him in a regular basis if he just decided to really take over a game a dominate. Now I don't know that his team would win that type of game but font kid yourself JTB, nobody is going to slow him down.Pippen was too light at the 3 as LeBron had 30-40 lbs on him. Malone or any other traditional 4 would get left at the 3pt line trying to defend him.Sports Science did a thing showing LeBron is the fastest man in the NBA end to end and he is probably close to the strongest and close to jumping the highest. There has never been anybody in NBA history with his combination of size, speed and athleticism.We all know Cam Newton is a beast if a physical QB but he's 4" shorter and probably 10 lbs lighter than LeBron and Cam trained for months to run the 40 and had a 4.58 and just messing around LeBron ran a 4.6. I can't stand the guy as a person but he's a physical freak the likes of which we have never seen before.

Dolfan...first let me be clear. NOBODY can stop LeBron from scoring. He will get his 20 or so, but on a good defender...it will be a hard fought for 20. You put an active defender on LeBron like Loul Deng and you can slow him down...not stop him, but harass him enough to throw his game off - limiting the penetration and set up for other players. Deng is about the same size as Pippen, but the big difference...

Deng has one All Defensive 2nd selection to Pippen's EIGHT 1st team All Defensive selections...and playing next to another perimeter defender in MJ who has NINE. Not to mention the both of them playing next to Dennis Rodman who has SEVEN. Not only that, but you're talking about guys who defended in a physical league. Dude... Pippen would MORE than hold his own against LeBron. I'm pretty sure he'd make LeBron's life pretty f'n miserable and the three of them would be a nightmare for the Heat.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Wretch