Merged: Discussion on Tanking

[RWF]

I just want to say, Ferry and Bud has seen first hand what it takes to construct a winning and respectable franchise. Why would some bash that if we don't get Howard? Let them build the team the way they see it, not how the media and fans see it. Who says Bud and Ferry sees Smith on a championship team? Howard? Of course they will try to get the big free agent signing, but don't act like it's the end of the Hawks if they start rebuilding what the Hawks once was into something better. GIVE IT TIME.

Building through the draft is welcomed by me.

Edited July 1, 2013 by RWF

[Chinky_eyed_hawk]

Danny Ainge to Globe: "We are not tanking. Thats ridiculous. This is the Boston Celtics." http://po.st/JIvkeW via @hoopshype

Oh how I wish everyone had this same sentiment

[Guest]

Oh how I wish everyone had this same sentiment

He should know - they tried tanking for Tim Duncan once, how'd that work out for them, lol.

[MaceCase]

Oh how I wish everyone had this same sentiment

Yeaaaaaaa, I can place you firmly in the get pissed on but believe it's rain crowd. Actions speak louder than words and selling your vets off for nothing more than a song says more to me than whatever proclamations Ainge makes in the media.

He should know - they tried tanking for Tim Duncan once, how'd that work out for them, lol.

They also tanked for Oden..........and turned those assets into Garnett, Allen and their first title and contending streak since the late 80s.

[Chinky_eyed_hawk]

He should know - they tried tanking for Tim Duncan once, how'd that work out for them, lol.

Ainge wasn't running things back then....

[Chinky_eyed_hawk]

Yeaaaaaaa, I can place you firmly in the get pissed on but believe it's rain crowd. Actions speak louder than words and selling your vets off for nothing more than a song says more to me than whatever proclamations Ainge makes in the media.

They also tanked for Oden..........and turned those assets into Garnett, Allen and their first title and contending streak since the late 80s.

lol .... not me. I'm just saying tanking is really never the answer. Sure a few teams have gotten lucky but I just can't concede to tanking like so many others.

Point of the post was that I wish that no matter what the situation is... this is the mindset... we are better than tanking

[AHF]

My goodness people. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Of course the Celtics are tanking this year. They just gave away Garnett and Pierce for future picks and filler.

Let's not be this naive. If they wanted to win this year, they wouldn't be trading productive vets for much less productive players and future picks.

Edited July 2, 2013 by AHF

[DJlaysitup]

He should know - they tried tanking for Tim Duncan once, how'd that work out for them, lol.

Yeah JBH...that was probably a once in half a century occurance. They had an MVP level center...he gets injured and went out for the season (but not career ending) - then they get top pick again and get a top level Center/PF....never happen again in my lifetime.

Heck - BK could have built a contender around that base.

[AHF]

Yeah JBH...that was probably a once in half a century occurance. They had an MVP level center...he gets injured and went out for the season (but not career ending) - then they get top pick again and get a top level Center/PF....never happen again in my lifetime.

Heck - BK could have built a contender around that base.

They were talking about the Celtics tanking for Duncan. They ended up drafting Chauncey Billups and Ron Mercer.

[DJlaysitup]

My goodness people. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Of course the Celtics are tanking this year. They just gave away Garnett and Pierce for future picks and filler.

Let's not be this naive. If they wanted to win this year, they wouldn't be trading productive vets for much less productive players and future picks.

Agreed AHF...I think that (while Boston can't tank longterm), Ainge sees opportunity here with a really good potential class in 2014.

They will tank for 1 year - get the best they can out of the draft - then start buying F/A's again to get back into contention.

...and if you are only tanking 1 year - you might as well go full-bore.

They were talking about the Celtics tanking for Duncan. They ended up drafting Chauncey Billups and Ron Mercer.

Yep - those ping pong balls have no favorites.

Edited July 2, 2013 by DJlaysitup

[DJlaysitup]

They were talking about the Celtics tanking for Duncan. They ended up drafting Chauncey Billups and Ron Mercer.

Well my transmission isn't what it used to be - I guess I accidentally switched gears...

[MaceCase]

lol .... not me. I'm just saying tanking is really never the answer. Sure a few teams have gotten lucky but I just can't concede to tanking like so many others.

Point of the post was that I wish that no matter what the situation is... this is the mindset... we are better than tanking

Yea, I'm also fond of the mindset of people who can't make it past noon without an 8th shot of whiskey saying that they aren't alcoholics.

You can say that you appreciate the sentiment but always, and I mean always, consider the source before you go along quoting them. Danny is tanking as sure as the sky is blue.

[Peoriabird]

My goodness people. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Of course the Celtics are tanking this year. They just gave away Garnett and Pierce for future picks and filler.

Let's not be this naive. If they wanted to win this year, they wouldn't be trading productive vets for much less productive players and future picks.

Dude..They traded 38 year olds players not 26 year old players like Horford...Big difference!

[AHF]

Dude..They traded 38 year olds players not 26 year old players like Horford...Big difference!

They are trading valuable players in order to lose and get in the lottery in a year stacked with talented players.

That is tanking.

[DJlaysitup]

. Danny is tanking as sure as the sky is blue.

Well I hate to be a Debbie Downer to all who are still hoping for D12, Al, and Smoove (or somebody else good) and Jeff...whatever....but...

...actually tanking makes sense. You can think what you want but with an ownership group who would likely be happy saving some money this coming year and a much better draft class next year - I mean c'mon - it's common sense.

DF likely had a two-fold plan (maybe) - get the cap space for this year to go for CP3/D12 - or - if that didn't work out - go for the gold next year in the lottery.

To be honest - that's exactly what I want from my GM - strategic thinking.

P.S. - once DF knew about DocR going to the Clippers (likely before we did) - that made the draft picks more logical - no need to go for "NBA ready" guys.

(this is no offense to Marvin but: "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...chances are..it's a duck")

Edited July 2, 2013 by DJlaysitup

[MaceCase]

Well I hate to be a Debbie Downer to all who are still hoping for D12, Al, and Smoove (or somebody else good) and Jeff...whatever....but...

...actually tanking makes sense. You can think what you want but with an ownership group who would likely be happy saving some money this coming year and a much better draft class next year - I mean c'mon - it's common sense.

DF likely had a two-fold plan (maybe) - get the cap space for this year to go for CP3/D12 - or - if that didn't work out - go for the gold next year in the lottery.

To be honest - that's exactly what I want from my GM - strategic thinking.

Leave it to DJ to give the Cliff-notes on an 18 page debate. Weren't in the mood for some light reading, huh?

[DJlaysitup]

Leave it to DJ to give the Cliff-notes on an 18 page debate. Weren't in the mood for some light reading, huh?

My sincere apologies

[Guest]

Yeaaaaaaa, I can place you firmly in the get pissed on but believe it's rain crowd. Actions speak louder than words and selling your vets off for nothing more than a song says more to me than whatever proclamations Ainge makes in the media. They also tanked for Oden..........and turned those assets into Garnett, Allen and their first title and contending streak since the late 80s.

how long did it take from when they tanked for TD then tanked for Oden to finally get the championship?(I'm too lazy to look it up) Edited July 2, 2013 by JayBirdHawk

[ATLBob]

Nice summary there DJ. Looks like I could've skipped a lot of pages!

I'm not going to try to get fancy with it. To me it's really simple:

Adding Howard + whoever else we'd have to sign or trade for to convince Howard to sign here would make me want to watch lots of basketball games. Unfortunately, I wasn't terribly sanguine about the prospect before Paul leaked his "promise," & without his switching teams, I see around a 5% chance of Howard coming here, ie the "how the hell did that happen, awesome!" snowball's chance. Call it a loser's mentality, but it is what it is, Now, don't get me wrong, I've still got all of my toes crossed too, but ..

If we don't land Howard, who do we add? Adding players like Jefferson & Ellis would make me NOT want to watch many games next season. (I'd still watch some, but the xx chromosome would win A LOT more of those "watch a movie with me instead" moments).

Without a true difference maker, I'd strongly prefer bringing the new draft picks over now, adding some low-risk, young players to fill out the roster, and let them see what they can do with the playing time. At least that team would be interesting to watch, even when they're losing, if for no other reason than to chart their progress. Who knows, maybe with some more consistent playing time, the proverbial light bulb really & truly goes on for a guy like Wright, Williams, or Daye. Maintain as much flexibility as possible, stockpile assets & young talent, and then aggressively target a rising player, a la Harden, when the opportunity arises. Keep Horford: we'll need him to convince that young talent to come. If we happen to win infrequently enough & simultaneously get lucky enough to get a high draft pick, so be it.

Anyway, that's my two cents ...

[MaceCase]

how long did it take from when they tanked for TD then tanked for Oden to finally get the championship?(I'm too lazy to look it up)

4 years from tanking for TD to reach an ECF then they stagnated for 3 seasons after in the 2nd round. Blew it up and tanked for 2 years, won the Finals.