Trade Horford

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I think Jeff sucks badly at the PnR. Horrible at reading screens, horrible at making reads, below average decision making. The only thing that seem to do is the PnP which most SG's with decent court vision can do well at. Jeff can't hit the pocket, isn't a smart playmaker and really isn't a playmaker. I think we take a huge stepback in terms of passing without Smoove. I am not sold on Teague and if anything, he really pisses me off more than Smoove used to do in his early years.

Jeff has good talent. He can really be a top 50 NBA player for a season or two if he has a role like Bobby Jackson, but as a starting PG. Thinking Al will be anything more than what he is right now is extremely wishful thinking. If we are talking about Al as a cornerstone, we would be foolish to make Jeff his running mate.

Note: One thing Jeff does a good job at is using the PnR to create offense for himself like Jamal used to do.

I'd like to see what a real coaching staff can do with Jeff. You have to admit that Woody and Drew had no interest in developing Teague. If the likely occurs with CP3 staying in LA, Teague is the next best option. I believe Coach Bud would do wonders for ole Jeffrey.

[Buzzard]

The Rockets have built up a ton of assets picking in that range since 2002 and they've used that to acquire Harden and are now on the verge of adding Dwight as well.

And you're wrong about Teague and Horford making each other better. With Horford being skilled in the pick n roll and Teague being like a young Parker and now having a coach who's coached Parker his entire career and whom specializes in teaching the PnR I'm pretty optimistic that they can indeed make each other better.

Exactly. We make solid picks and keep adding assets that are valuable/attractive. We are not the Bobcats and there is no need to panic now and step back that far.

[NBASupes]

Here is my thing with guys like Jeff. If you aren't a PG who can create for others, you need to be one of these to have a positive impact on a NBA level as a starting PG:

A. You need to be an elite scoring PG. Guys like Westbrook, Rose, and Irving come to mind. All greatly struggle at creating for others unless they are attacking the basket and doing a drive and kick.

B. You need to be an extremely smart PG who understands, pace, tempo, and what players excel from. Guys like Rondo, Bibby, and Billups were legends at this.

C. You just aren't a starting PG in the NBA. If you can't create for others consistently, you aren't this elite scoring PG, and you aren't extremely smart, you aren't a starting PG.

Now you could be great off the bench. Bobby Jackson who was an average starting PG at best was an amazing 6th man for a great team like Sacramento.

[NBASupes]

I'd like to see what a real coaching staff can do with Jeff. You have to admit that Woody and Drew had no interest in developing Teague. If the likely occurs with CP3 staying in LA, Teague is the next best option. I believe Coach Bud would do wonders for ole Jeffrey.

I hate when people say that. They been saying for years with Smith. At least with Smith, you know you can place him in a role which would be better for him to produce like we did in 09-10 than he did recently as a #1 offensive option. Teague is what he is. His BBIQ is average at best. He isn't an elite scoring PG nor is he close. He can't create for others. He is your typical good talent undersized SG who is playing PG due to a lack of position.

No coaching staff is changing that. None. Nada. Nil. He is what he is. Wasting our time on him is just bad management if our plan is for him to be the starter. Look at Grevis Vasquez. He too is outproduced like Jeffery. While his stats look nicer than Jeff's, his team is better when he's off the court and he gets outproduced. What does that say. He is not a starter even if his stats look nice. Why is that? He can't create for others. He is not an elite scoring PG. He has average BBIQ. He just doesn't have the ability to be a starting PG but he does have talent as many on the Pelicans forum will tell you but if you ask what their biggest need is, it's PG. Since the Smoove era, we have clamored over these athletic talented players who aren't starting level players. We love Jamal. We love Smoove who have great talent, we love Teague. None of these guys are championship players as starters and will never be championship players as starters. Even Smoove is best coming off the bench like a Manu Gilinobi.

[NBASupes]

The Rockets have built up a ton of assets picking in that range since 2002 and they've used that to acquire Harden and are now on the verge of adding Dwight as well.

In all seriousness, James Harden is a flavor of the month player. I don't see Dwight leaving LA to play in Houston. They have just as much of a shot to win it all next year and after that, LA can build a new roster and Houston is stuck. LA would be the best option for Dwight and even Dwight knows that unless he can team up with CP3.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Leadership

[Admin]

I hate when people say that. They been saying for years with Smith. At least with Smith, you know you can place him in a role which would be better for him to produce like we did in 09-10 than he did recently as a #1 offensive option. Teague is what he is. His BBIQ is average at best. He isn't an elite scoring PG nor is he close. He can't create for others. He is your typical good talent undersized SG who is playing PG due to a lack of position.

No coaching staff is changing that. None. Nada. Nil. He is what he is. Wasting our time on him is just bad management if our plan is for him to be the starter. Look at Grevis Vasquez. He too is outproduced like Jeffery. While his stats look nicer than Jeff's, his team is better when he's off the court and he gets outproduced. What does that say. He is not a starter even if his stats look nice. Why is that? He can't create for others. He is not an elite scoring PG. He has average BBIQ. He just doesn't have the ability to be a starting PG but he does have talent as many on the Pelicans forum will tell you but if you ask what their biggest need is, it's PG. Since the Smoove era, we have clamored over these athletic talented players who aren't starting level players. We love Jamal. We love Smoove who have great talent, we love Teague. None of these guys are championship players as starters and will never be championship players as starters. Even Smoove is best coming off the bench like a Manu Gilinobi.

You act as if Jeff didn't take major strides this year towards improving himself. I see absolutely no reason to think that once he's actually put in a system that fits his talents that he won't continue to improve.

[NBASupes]

You act as if Jeff didn't take major strides this year towards improving himself. I see absolutely no reason to think that once he's actually put in a system that fits his talents that he won't continue to improve.

Honestly, Jeff looks average as a PG to me. I didn't see the major strides. I saw flashes. I saw him having a good month then having two bad ones. I saw a player who was getting outproduced by his opponent more times than not. I saw a player who struggled with his confidence. I saw a player who had more fun moments to watch but was disappointing more times than not. Given that he doesn't really have PG skills, that was probably the most frustrating thing of all. With that said, he is a talented player. If you can use him in the right role, he can be a difference maker for your squad. That much is true.

There is no system that will making Jeff a starting NBA level PG. None. No coach. He just doesn't have the tools, mind, or ability for it.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Leadership

[AHawks89]

You're not going to get a lot of positive opinions with this thread because a lot of people LOVE Horford, .... and as well as I do. If we're going to be rebuilding, I think we need at least one piece and that's Horford. He is on a cheap contract and he can hit mid range shots and rebounds pretty well. Horford knows what we're doing. If we don't land CP3 and Howard, I think Horford will wait around because he trust DF and Coach Bud. I believe we will have a championship team very soon.

[Guest]

In all honesty, I love Horford. The thought of trading him makes me sick. I just want to either put a couple all stars with Horford or Horford and scrubs to land a high pick in 2014. If we do neither, then it's not fair to Horford to keep stringing him along. The guy is entering his prime and we need to take advantage of it.

[NBASupes]

You're not going to get a lot of positive opinions with this thread because a lot of people LOVE Horford, .... and as well as I do. If we're going to be rebuilding, I think we need at least one piece and that's Horford. He is on a cheap contract and he can hit mid range shots and rebounds pretty well. Horford knows what we're doing. If we don't land CP3 and Howard, I think Horford will wait around because he trust DF and Coach Bud. I believe we will have a championship team very soon.

I don't think trade Horford is the best method because it wouldn't get us a top 5 pick in next year draft and trading him for a future 2014 pick wouldn't get a us a top five pick either. So we are kind of stuck with him. He's only making 12 mil per. He is still very productive and whatnot.

[yungsta]

Nah we dont have to trade horford yet.

Lets see how horford plays with jbrick out of the way and with a coach like budenholzer to push him to be more aggressive offensively.

We gotta keep teague too. Gotta see how he plays without jbrick taking the ball out of his hands on fast breaks and yelling at him and see how he reacts to coach bud. If it doesnt work out we can still use him at a trading asset as long as we dont overpay him.

[NBASupes]

Nah we dont have to trade horford yet.

Lets see how horford plays with jbrick out of the way and with a coach like budenholzer to push him to be more aggressive offensively.

We gotta keep teague too. Gotta see how he plays without jbrick taking the ball out of his hands on fast breaks and yelling at him and see how he reacts to coach bud. If it doesnt work out we can still use him at a trading asset as long as we dont overpay him.

Why do we blame Josh for Jeff's failures. Josh was yelling at Jeff to get the right positions and run the offense which Jeff struggled at. While most just did their job, Josh is vocal about it.

Josh was our best passer last year. He actually created points for Horf and even Zaza. Something Jeff rarely did. Running the PnP is not creating for others in my opinion as most NBA players can do that. Joe use to do it at times if needed. It doesn't take much to do.

Josh running the break with the ball has always been smh worthy but it never stopped us from saying Bibby was a good at running the offense even if he was slow as molasses and he really had no quickness in Atlanta. Sorry but Josh wasn't the reason Jeff sucks at running an offense. Jeff is the reason Jeff sucks at running an offense.

I swear there is not a NBA player who pisses me off more than Jeff. At times, Devin makes me wonder as well. He too can't run an offense well. Can't create for others. Is not an elite scorer but at least he has great aggression and a workman's attitude.

We haven't had a real PG since Bibby and Bibby was our first real PG since Mookie.

Smh.

[NBASupes]

If CP3 is not available, PG should be our #1 focus in this draft. C should be our #2 focus. Flip a future 1st and our 1st to move up for a PG and use our Hou 1st for a center.

[KB21]

Love him to death but we need to tank for 2014..I'm talking serious 2004 style, 13 wins style tanking. Get Wiggins, Parker or Randle. But watch if we are worst team record wise nba will screw us and give us the 4th pick in the 2014 draft...bs

So, you want to spend the next 6-8 years being one of the worst teams in the league, constantly in the lottery, and constantly wondering if the team is ever going to win again?

Because that's what happens more often than not when you tank to get a better draft pick.

A much better strategy would be to keep Horford and surround him with players and assets that keep the team competitive, then when the opportunity presents itself, deal those assets for that player in the draft like San Antonio did with Kawhi Leonard or acquire your star via a trade.

[Buzzard]

If CP3 is not available, PG should be our #1 focus in this draft. C should be our #2 focus. Flip a future 1st and our 1st to move up for a PG and use our Hou 1st for a center.

Not in agreement. SG/SF/ and Center should be our focus in the draft and free agency. We are good at PG and PF. I will say this, if Dennis Schröder drops to us, I would be tempted to take him.

[Guest]

I think we need an additional first round pick this year. Either that or get up into the top 7 for Oladipo or Burke. We need to make moves.

[NBASupes]

Not in agreement. SG/SF/ and Center should be our focus in the draft and free agency. We are good at PG and PF. I will say this, if Dennis Schröder drops to us, I would be tempted to take him.

If your idea is having an average PG who helps you win games but is too good to keep you out of the bottom but not good enough to get you further than the 7th or 8th seed so we become the new Milwaukee, I'll rather tank or bring in a PG who at least provides the ability to either create for others, score at an elite rate which you can't get outside of the top 10 of most drafts, or elite BBIQ PG which is next to impossible to get outside of the top 10 of a NBA draft unless he suck physically then I'll rather move on without him.

Your idea of getting assets is flawed. Only James Harden has been traded for of the last five years that's been overly productive and we did you method before with Joe and failed greatly.

Tank in very strong draft years have been great to well managed organizations.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Leadership

[NBASupes]

I think we need an additional first round pick this year. Either that or get up into the top 7 for Oladipo or Burke. We need to make moves.

Agreed. If we can get into the top 5, we can land Burke or Oladipo. One of those guys would give us hope especially Burke. I wouldn't give anything in 14' in the top 5 and nothing in the top 3 for 15'. After that, you can have what you want.

I would even look at overpaying in free agency for a guy like Greg Oden.

[buckeye242424]

Is this thread a joke? I'm reading trading our best player and comparing us to the Bobcats? We've been in the playoffs the last six years....Charlotte? really? Dump Horford.... for younger talent?? He's 26!!! Who's better? Stupid.....

[NBASupes]

Is this thread a joke? I'm reading trading our best player and comparing us to the Bobcats? We've been in the playoffs the last six years....Charlotte? really? Dump Horford.... for younger talent?? He's 26!!! Who's better? Stupid.....

The logic isn't terrible. We need a top 5 pick in a deep draft so we can tank better. The problem is we are vastly under the cap floor. We need some big contracts. Al's contract is reasonable. It just makes sense to keep him then trade him. Al might made the other team too good for us to get a top 5 pick from.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Leadership