Trade Horford

[NBASupes]

You're not going to get through to these people who continue to ignore the overwhelming evidence against tanking. Thankfully we have a GM and brand new 1st time head coach who aren't going to tarnish their careers by tanking.

Ferry would look like an idiot giving guys like Teague and Jefferson contracts. It's either contend or tank. If you stay in the middle and overpay for guys, what makes you any different than BK and Sund. That's what bad management does.

[Admin]

The Rockets are really crapping all over the tanking is the way mob! They haven't had a top 10 pick since 2002 and yet they have 1 superstar and are likely to get their 2nd this offseason. How? By drafting smartly in the teens, developing their young assets, keeping cap flexibility and then striking when the opportunity is there. That is the way!

[Jody23]

Ferry would look like an idiot giving guys like Teague and Jefferson contracts. It's either contend or tank. If you stay in the middle and overpay for guys, what makes you any different than BK and Sund. That's what bad management does.

Who says Ferry is going to sign Al Jefferson and re-sign Teague? After moving Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams the first chance he got, no way uses his flexibility on overpaying guys who are not difference makers.

[wolvetigers]

We got to get a top 6 pick. We would really suck with Green/Brown/Mack or comparable scrubs out there. The odd of falling out of the top 6 would be extremely low. We would be as bad as Orlando would be next year if not worse.

If we miss on CP3/D12, what are our options. We can't win with anyone else in FA. Why waste the money and the time?

We will most likely miss out on D12/ CP3 - but tanking offers no guarantees...The funny thing is no free agent wants to play for an organization that doesnt value winning. It's a reason why the National Media always clowns Atlanta Hawks attendance, etc., and those sentiments will continue....

Bring in a good coach - Check

Talented Players - Horford, Teague (somewhat)

Supplement players (draft, trades)

Sign free agents ( Jefferson, Center from Minnesota)

and build a reputable team...tanking will set up back tremendously and we will once again be a laughing stock of the league

[NBASupes]

The Rockets are really crapping all over the tanking is the way mob! They haven't had a top 10 pick since 2002 and yet they have 1 superstar and are likely to get their 2nd this offseason. How? By drafting smartly in the teens, developing their young assets, keeping cap flexibility and then striking when the opportunity is there.That is the way!

We been in the middle before and we are in the middle right now. How can you rebuild in the middle? Houston is still in the middle and are built to be capped out in the middle. They are just hoping D12 goes there. If he doesn't, they would either have to wait till 2014 or sign someone like Smoove. They would still be in the middle. How is Houston an example? They don't have a superstar either. How you can be a superstar when you team is better with you on the bench then on the floor? There is a reason why OKC traded him, they found him to be replaceable. Superstars aren't replaceable.

[NBASupes]

We will most likely miss out on D12/ CP3 - but tanking offers no guarantees...The funny thing is no free agent wants to play for an organization that doesnt value winning. It's a reason why the National Media always clowns Atlanta Hawks attendance, etc., and those sentiments will continue....

Bring in a good coach - Check

Talented Players - Horford, Teague (somewhat)

Supplement players (draft, trades)

Sign free agents ( Jefferson, Center from Minnesota)

and build a reputable team...tanking will set up back tremendously and we will once again be a laughing stock of the league

This team will place where we are now. That's not rebuilding. That's staying the same and being a joke.

If we are tanking, you are at least trying to get assets. Get assets for Teague, Smoove, and for our cap space. That's rebuilding. What signing guys like Jefferson does is not reputable and no guarantee Bud will be any good with these guys. You are only as good as the players you have in the NBA. You can put them in the right spots but if they have too do too much, you will be over matched regardless.

[wolvetigers]

Who says Ferry is going to sign Al Jefferson and re-sign Teague? After moving Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams the first chance he got, no way uses his flexibility on overpaying guys who are not difference makers.

I wouldnt be surprise if Ferry Traded Teague for a lottery pick

This team will place where we are now. That's not rebuilding. That's staying the same and being a joke.

If we are tanking, you are at least trying to get assets. Get assets for Teague, Smoove, and for our cap space. That's rebuilding. What signing guys like Jefferson does is not reputable and no guarantee Bud will be any good with these guys. You are only as good as the players you have in the NBA. You can put them in the right spots but if they have too do too much, you will be over matched regardless.

How did tanking work for us before? Exactly - maybe it's time to try something new - this is a business

Edited June 24, 2013 by wolvetigers

[NBASupes]

I love rebuilding if it is done correctly, getting assets, understanding how to gut your roster, tanking during the right years which takes timing, coming into to rebuilding with a gameplan. That's smart GM.

Staying in the middle is the easiest job in the NBA. It take no talent. Just sign FA's who are decent. throw them on the floor and let them get you to the playoffs, more than likely a late seed. Look at Billy King, he did an amazing job getting Brooklyn in the middle. Now they can't get to the top with a stud like Deron on the squad.

[NBASupes]

I would hire Diesel if I wanted to stay in the middle. Any poster can get hired but if we want a contender, we need a great GM. If we want to rebuild correctly, we need a great GM.

[Admin]

We been in the middle before and we are in the middle right now. How can you rebuild in the middle? Houston is still in the middle and are built to be capped out in the middle. They are just hoping D12 goes there. If he doesn't, they would either have to wait till 2014 or sign someone like Smoove. They would still be in the middle. How is Houston an example? They don't have a superstar either. How you can be a superstar when you team is better with you on the bench then on the floor? There is a reason why OKC traded him, they found him to be replaceable. Superstars aren't replaceable.

We didn't have a smart GM or good scouting back then. This is a completely different organization now among the talent evaluators and decision makers. Ferry has a pretty good track record with draft picks and has put in a very good system to find talent so I fully expect that he can build a quality team, just like Daryl Morey has done, by picking in the teens.

[Jody23]

I wouldnt be surprise if Ferry Traded Teague for a lottery pick How did tanking work for us before? Exactly - maybe it's time to try something new - this is a business

Teague cannot be traded for a pick in this years draft because he is a free agent.

[NBASupes]

We didn't have a smart GM or good scouting back then. This is a completely different organization now among the talent evaluators and decision makers. Ferry has a pretty good track record with draft picks and has put in a very good system to find talent so I fully expect that he can build a quality team, just like Daryl Morey has done, by picking in the teens.

A great GM would realize you couldn't even get Josh for Monta Ellis, he isn't much of an asset.

A great GM would realize your starting PG who is talented is just an average PG and the best you can get a late 1st and you would probably have to take a bad contract just to get that.

A great GM would realize this roster only has one real asset with true value.

A great GM would realize that if you can't get hit a home run, you should probably build up the farm so you can hit a lot of home runs in the future.

A bad GM would realize hey, if I rebuild, I would have to work extremely hard, it would be easier to resign Jeff who I couldn't get a 1st for straight up anyway, I could sign Al Jefferson since he is a post scorer even if he doesn't answer my issues and I could resign Josh since he seems like a fan favorite. Yep, I am happy we have great management. Where assets and superstars are more valuable then overpaid role players and guys with potential but are flawed in general.

Teague cannot be traded for a pick in this years draft because he is a free agent.

Even so, no team is giving us a 1st 2014 for just Jeff. He's not worth it especially if they have to pay him. They would give us that if we take a contract off of their hands.

[Jody23]

Even so, no team is giving us a 1st 2014 for just Jeff. He's not worth it especially if they have to pay him. They would give us that if we take a contract off of their hands.

No one is suggesting that he is.

[KB21]

You're not going to get through to these people who continue to ignore the overwhelming evidence against tanking. Thankfully we have a GM and brand new 1st time head coach who aren't going to tarnish their careers by tanking.

Ah, most fans don't understand what actually contributes to winning basketball anyway. For example, most Hawks fans were thinking the team would fall to 25 or so wins last year because they lost Joe Johnson. "How are we going to replace Joe's scoring?" There is still this mindset that volume box score stats mean anything by themselves.

Another example is they see the flashy player on another team and immediately say we need someone like him on the team. An example is Paul George. He's a great young player. However, when Larry Drew decided to put Josh Smith on him in game 3 of that series instead of Kyle Korver, Josh DESTROYED him. Paul George was 10 for 27 shooting in games 3 and 4 when Josh was guarding him, and Josh abused him in the post on offense. It gives you an idea of what Josh can do if he stays within himself.

I want to win a championship, and the data shows that I have more than twice as much of a chance to have a team that can win a championship if I maintain the competitiveness of the team than I would if I decided to blow up the roster and tank.

[Admin]

Ah, most fans don't understand what actually contributes to winning basketball anyway. For example, most Hawks fans were thinking the team would fall to 25 or so wins last year because they lost Joe Johnson. "How are we going to replace Joe's scoring?" There is still this mindset that volume box score stats mean anything by themselves.

Another example is they see the flashy player on another team and immediately say we need someone like him on the team. An example is Paul George. He's a great young player. However, when Larry Drew decided to put Josh Smith on him in game 3 of that series instead of Kyle Korver, Josh DESTROYED him. Paul George was 10 for 27 shooting in games 3 and 4 when Josh was guarding him, and Josh abused him in the post on offense. It gives you an idea of what Josh can do if he stays within himself.

I want to win a championship, and the data shows that I have more than twice as much of a chance to have a team that can win a championship if I maintain the competitiveness of the team than I would if I decided to blow up the roster and tank.

That's exactly how I feel as well. I know I've beaten this point to death and that the Rockets haven't yet won anything, but they are the model of the team that we should be imitating with our strategy. No bad contracts, drafting in the teens and acquiring as much solid young talent as possible, and then using your cap flexibility and assets to acquire star/superstar players when the opportunity is there.

Atlanta is now in an excellent position to do that with Horford being on a great contract relative to his production and no bad contracts on the roster at all plus some young talent and a couple of 1st round picks this year. I am very excited about our future and trust that Ferry is going to built this thing the right way... well outside of the mingling with the common folk at the draft party during the draft, of course LOL.

[Guest]

Here's my deal. I love Horford. I love Ferry. I trust Ferry/Bud. I love the Morey model in Houston. I'm not a huge stats guy. I want cp Dwight. I want to be a winner. I want some stars in Atlanta. I want a top 5 pick in 2014 if we don't get cp Dwight. That's everything I'm all about.

[Guest]

I'm tired of 2nd round exits..(sometimes 1st). I want championships.

[KB21]

I'm tired of 2nd round exits..(sometimes 1st). I want championships.

You want championships, but you want to take the least effective route to get a championship. It doesn't make sense. It ignores the data that is out there.

I'm a doctor. What you are doing with ignoring the tanking data would be like me ignoring the data on Zocor. The number needed to treat to prevent one heart attack for Zocor is 4. Most other drugs, you need to treat 100 patients to prevent 1 heart attack. So, if I were prescribing medication the way you suppor tanking, I would tell people that zocor is not a good drug despite the evidence that proves otherwise, and I would prescribe something like pravastatin where the number needed to treat is 45.

[NBASupes]

You want championships, but you want to take the least effective route to get a championship. It doesn't make sense. It ignores the data that is out there.

I'm a doctor. What you are doing with ignoring the tanking data would be like me ignoring the data on Zocor. The number needed to treat to prevent one heart attack for Zocor is 4. Most other drugs, you need to treat 100 patients to prevent 1 heart attack. So, if I were prescribing medication the way you suppor tanking, I would tell people that zocor is not a good drug despite the evidence that proves otherwise, and I would prescribe something like pravastatin where the number needed to treat is 45.

Your route isn't effective as it doesn't relate to us. Your idea is to keep a tweener forward who can't even get Monta Ellis in a trade for. Your idea and to draft a Khawi Leonard when Leonard would be asked to do too much and would be slow to develop here and your idea is to add an Al Jefferson is a criminally flawed player who his team has no interest in bring back. Your idea just isn't as attractive as gutting the team for assets, keeping Horf, putting 3rd stringers around him and doing some mass losing. Getting a top 5 pick hopefully the #1 pick. Get Wiggins. Tank again, get Okafor or Jones. Then playoffs and a year later contending.

I like a roster of

(PG) asset 1st/Lou/Mack

Jenkins/1st round asset from trade

Wiggins/Gianaiss/

Horf/Scott/???

Okafor/asset 1st rounder

That would give us two potential superstars, a good potential PG if we draft well, Horf who is a top 15-20 NBA player and Jenkins who in three years should be a good player for us.

That would give us an elite squad in the future. Wiggins giving you highlights as well as Okafor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLsK-ZoL9sY

[Sothron]

You want championships, but you want to take the least effective route to get a championship. It doesn't make sense. It ignores the data that is out there.

I'm a doctor. What you are doing with ignoring the tanking data would be like me ignoring the data on Zocor. The number needed to treat to prevent one heart attack for Zocor is 4. Most other drugs, you need to treat 100 patients to prevent 1 heart attack. So, if I were prescribing medication the way you suppor tanking, I would tell people that zocor is not a good drug despite the evidence that proves otherwise, and I would prescribe something like pravastatin where the number needed to treat is 45.

Medical trivia aside the data you provided is fallacious and quite frankly almost nonsensical in its application to this discussion. The only subject of import to this franchise is its ability to garner superstar talent because it has been proven that superstar(s) are needed to win a title. How you get the superstar is simply the process to arrive at the desired outcome: having a superstar(s).