Josh on interview 92.9 right now? Blasting Hawks a bit

[MaceCase]

Thsii

Why do I care if its a hook, floater, etc that the guy is bricking? eFG is a measure of how valuable each shot a player takes is. ie, eFG on jumpers is any shot that is not considered close, dunk, tip. Take each and every 2 point/3 point shot. What is the benefit of that player taking a shot not close, dunk or tip. When measured based on last season's stats, Smith performed as well or better than all star players listed. All of the players listed shot below 40% eFG from outside a normal post player's position and all except Cousins shot more than Smith. ie all were less effective away from the basket than Smith. Spin this any way you can to make yourself feel better. Smith is not Lebron and neither are all the other players listed.

If you are trying to argue on a stat that miscategorizes what an actual jumper is.....then that stat is fruitless in a discussion on jumpers.

If you are trying to justify a player's value on these miscategorized stats by comparing him to A) a player who played only 18 games B) A 32 year old player who had his worst season C) Another 31 year old that had his worst season D) The second most inefficient player in the league next to josh and E) A center never known for his offense and call them "All Stars" no less.........then I'm sorry, sir, but the only spin going on here is with you but I will admit I'm getting dizzy reading these rationalizations.

[MaceCase]

Winning organizations don't make bad decisions to try and appease shortsighted fans.

Yes, because had we not traded Joe we would have been able to even pursue Dwight, Paul or Pekovic. No wait, the reason why we didn't actually sign Dwight, Paul or Pekovic is because we didn't want to spend over 10 million on a player. RFA status or the actual desires of those UFAs had nothing to do with it, the Hawks just were cheap. Bebe and Muscala staying or going overseas was a monumental waste of draft assets whereas the player we actually traded up for who will be on the roster, meh. Despite having only Horford, Louis and our draft picks as the only tradable assets it was another monumental mistake by the franchise not being able to or desiring to trade into the top 10 of a weak draft. We decided to wait 4 days to officially match Teague, yet another sign of a bad franchise, one that was clearly not looking at all of their options over this time because let's be real, they weren't going to spend the money anyway. Being massively below the cap also means you can spend all the way to above the lux tax and we refused to offer a comparable offer of 55 million to a player who is comparable to noted "All Stars" such as Carlos Boozer (last selection in 2008), Pau Gasol (last selection 2011), Demarcus Cousins (none) Emeka Okafor (none) and 18 games of Kevin Love with a broken shooting hand.

Did I miss anything from that bitter rant without any logical basis?

[AHF]

To take this point further I want to display a few shot charts of very successful big men who have had solid coaching in their careers.

Tyson Chandler. Although Tyson's eFG% on jump shots last year was a ridiculous .641% it still only accounted for 36% of his offense. Chandler's role has always been to put back what he rebounds and push it back out to the guards. That he played for Woody last year is a misnomer, Tyson is a product of solid coaching his whole life. If you look at older posts of mine you'll see I was pining for him 5+ years ago.

However, to show that the Josh hate is really misplaced I wanted to point to a few other known big men who people on this board have coveted.

Carlos Boozer - eFG% on jumpers 37.6%....63% of his offense.

DeMarcus Cousins - eFG% on jumpers 31.2%...53% of his offense

Paul Gasol - eFG% on jumpers 39.9%...60% of his offense.

Kevin Love - eFG% on jumpers 32.0%...57% of his offense.

Emeka Okafor - eFG% on jumpers 32%....58% of his offense.

I could go on but every player here is either worse than Smith in eFG% or similar with more shots as a percentage of his offense.

Again Smith, 38.9% for 56%. Better than Boozer, Cousins, Love, Okafor...same as Gasol effectively.

Now factor in Smith's passing, defense and general game knowledge and Atlanta fans should be sick about their prospects this upcoming season.

Others have said it, but let's review:

Carlos Boozer - eFG% on jumpers 37.6%....63% of his offense.

Considered overpaid and possible amnesty option for Chicago due to his reliance on jumpers.

DeMarcus Cousins - eFG% on jumpers 31.2%...53% of his offense

Reliance on jumpers is the single worst part of his game.

Paul Gasol - eFG% on jumpers 39.9%...60% of his offense.

This is all about misuse by D'Antoni of a guy who has traditionally been a highly efficient scorer. In fact, this is a perfect example of how shooting too many jumpers ruins a good big man.

Kevin Love - eFG% on jumpers 32.0%...57% of his offense.

Injured and small sample size. His reputation would not be high if he played like this normally. His reputation is high because he is normally much better. Look at the two prior full seasons: 43.7% efg% on jumpers for 2011-12; 44% efg% on jumpers for 2010-11.

Emeka Okafor - eFG% on jumpers 32%....58% of his offense.

Isn't his rep a guy who can't play on offense but can get you some boards and solid D?

If you want to argue that Josh's jump shooting is great, then at least compare him against guys who were good offensively in a decent season for them.

The funny thing is that you are using a list of guys who sucked last year as a justification for Josh:

Boozer - .510 TS% 2012-13 (career .563 ts%): -.053% sucked

Love - .458 TS% 2012-13 (career .557 ts%): -.099% sucked

Gasol - .512 TS% 2012-13 (career .573 ts%): -.061% sucked

Cousins - .524 TS% 2012-13 - stands out for his inefficient offense to date over his career but if you read about his season you would know his best offensive numbers were in the second half when he significantly cut his # of jumpers

Okafor - .496 TS% 2012-13 (career .537 ts%): -.041% sucked

Josh - .501 TS% 2012-13 (career .516 ts%): -.015% worse than average

This looks like damning Josh with fair praise.

[Diesel]

Players don't usually leave here to play better. Deke got the finals and JT got a championship, but they simply went to the right team.

If you look at SAR, Big Dog, Walker, Theo, JJ, Marvin and other players.... That didn't really go on to do much better. Playing with Deron actually did not make JJ a better player even.

My guess is that that is really our fault most of the time. Most of the players on your list were lead scorers with us and moved on to places where they were not lead scorers. It's the hallmark of our team. Our players are iso players expected to carry. Some stathead can tell you the difference in attempts for each of these guys and My guess is that they went down because they left as 1st options to become something else. With the exception of Marvin. Theo was injury riddled so he doesn't count.

[thecampster]

Others have said it, but let's review:

Carlos Boozer - eFG% on jumpers 37.6%....63% of his offense.

Considered overpaid and possible amnesty option for Chicago due to his reliance on jumpers.

DeMarcus Cousins - eFG% on jumpers 31.2%...53% of his offense

Reliance on jumpers is the single worst part of his game.

Paul Gasol - eFG% on jumpers 39.9%...60% of his offense.

This is all about misuse by D'Antoni of a guy who has traditionally been a highly efficient scorer. In fact, this is a perfect example of how shooting too many jumpers ruins a good big man.

Kevin Love - eFG% on jumpers 32.0%...57% of his offense.

Injured and small sample size. His reputation would not be high if he played like this normally. His reputation is high because he is normally much better. Look at the two prior full seasons: 43.7% efg% on jumpers for 2011-12; 44% efg% on jumpers for 2010-11.

Emeka Okafor - eFG% on jumpers 32%....58% of his offense.

Isn't his rep a guy who can't play on offense but can get you some boards and solid D?

If you want to argue that Josh's jump shooting is great, then at least compare him against guys who were good offensively in a decent season for them.

The funny thing is that you are using a list of guys who sucked last year as a justification for Josh:

Boozer - .510 TS% 2012-13 (career .563 ts%): -.053% sucked

Love - .458 TS% 2012-13 (career .557 ts%): -.099% sucked

Gasol - .512 TS% 2012-13 (career .573 ts%): -.061% sucked

Cousins - .524 TS% 2012-13 - stands out for his inefficient offense to date over his career but if you read about his season you would know his best offensive numbers were in the second half when he significantly cut his # of jumpers

Okafor - .496 TS% 2012-13 (career .537 ts%): -.041% sucked

Josh - .501 TS% 2012-13 (career .516 ts%): -.015% worse than average

This looks like damning Josh with fair praise.

No my argument is that this is fairly par for the course with many big men. To be fair, I just grabbed names and looked at 7 players. I just listed players under 40%. The evidence of 5 in 7 is a pretty convincing sample.

But answering your question more directly. This is fairly par for the course in the NBA. There are better coached or shorter leash players whose numbers are higher. But for most higher use big men in the NBA, an eFG% on shots outside of close range is below 45% but makes up over 50% of their offense. To hear Atlanta fans spin it, Josh was completely different than 90% of the NBA PF's. The reality is at 56% he was fairly normal and at 39% eFG on those shots he was middle of the pack.

Edited August 26, 2013 by thecampster

[AHF]

No my argument is that this is fairly par for the course with many big men. To be fair, I just grabbed names and looked at 7 players. I just listed players under 40%. The evidence of 5 in 7 is a pretty convincing sample.

But answering your question more directly. This is fairly par for the course in the NBA. There are better coached or shorter leash players whose numbers are higher. But for most higher use big men in the NBA, an eFG% on shots outside of close range is below 45% but makes up over 50% of their offense. To hear Atlanta fans spin it, Josh was completely different than 90% of the NBA PF's. The reality is at 56% he was fairly normal and at 39% eFG on those shots he was middle of the pack.

So you think his terrible TS% is purely a result of his bad FT shooting? Not buying it. Josh is among the very worst PFs in the league by TS% and that is due to his jumper.

Take Pau Gasol by comparison since he was one of the guys you hand picked. When Gasol was a key cog in a championship team, he wasn't following the Mike D'Antoni "let's chuck jumpers" philosophy. Note how much better he was:

2009-10: 39% jumpers at .382 efg%; 61% inside shots at .631 efg%

2008-09: 41% jumpers at .461 efg%; 59% inside shots at .640 efg%

That is what a championship player looks like. Not like Josh:

2012-13: 56% jumpers at .389 efg%;

2011-12: 61% jumpers at .388 efg%

What difference does it make?

Here is the difference:

Gasol 08-09: .617 ts%

Gasol 09-10: .593 ts%

Josh 11-12: .499 ts%

Josh 12-13: .501 ts%

Wow. Even I didn't think it was going to be that big.

[macdaddy]

I'll jump into the middle of your conversation and say that the real issue here isn't going to show up completely in the stats. The real issue is when have you ever seen Boozer, Okafor, Cousins etc. decline to pass to an open guard with the game on the line and take a long two or three themself? I'd say never, compared to countless.

[Bonkers]

I'll jump into the middle of your conversation and say that the real issue here isn't going to show up completely in the stats. The real issue is when have you ever seen Boozer, Okafor, Cousins etc. decline to pass to an open guard with the game on the line and take a long two or three themself? I'd say never, compared to countless.

Boom!!!

And there u have it. Great post macdaddy

[thecampster]

I totally agree with coachx here. People are going to read/see what they want to see, but in general I felt this was a very laid back interview. I thought Josh was honest, respectful, well spoken, CBA competent, cognizant of the fans (good and bad), and joked around a lot. He is a tough person not to like, which is not to say anything about him as a basketball player.

I think the thing I found most interesting was at the end of the interview when Jamie Dukes and Josh were talking about Atlanta fans not having anything to worry about now. Jamie then went on to talk about how Atlanta fans whine. That when there was talk of Josh and Dwight together in Atlanta, most every city would have said to sign them up for that but all Atlanta did was find reasons to whine.

[Colin]

I wish Smoove all the best. He is a passionate dude, and that showed in his time here in Atlanta (both good and bad). I think it has something to do with growing up and not realizing how old you are (happening to me, as I am 23 and still feel like a kid). With a new environment, Josh will HAVE TO GROW UP, and I think that is unlikely but not impossible. I hope it works out for him and he finally gets an all-star nod.