Millsap...

[Guest]

Is there some sort of software that is changing what I type to something else?I'll put this as simple as possible.Rockets want Sap.Rockets can't afford Sap.Hawks want Center.Hawks have money for Center but no Center want sign.Hawks trade for Center .Rockets afford Sap.

Is this the low hanging fruit loops you were talking about? Or were they coco puffs. I forget.

[MrMeltdown]

Spencer Hawes is not a better all around player than Asik and it is not even close. Hawes has better offense but Asik is better on the boards and defensively and impacts the game more. Gortat would be better than Asik in this system.

[NBASupes]

Spencer Hawes is not a better all around player than Asik and it is not even close. Hawes has better offense but Asik is better on the boards and defensively and impacts the game more. Gortat would be better than Asik in this system.

Solid man defender, decent team defender, solid offensive player, good size, good BBIQ compared to great defensive player, below average offensive player, very good size, and good BBIQ. I can see why some would rather Hawes over Asik. Hawes has been much better this year than Asik and it's not close.

[GameTime]

Spencer Hawes is not a better all around player than Asik and it is not even close. Hawes has better offense but Asik is better on the boards and defensively and impacts the game more. Gortat would be better than Asik in this system.

Spencer Hawes has been very good positionally this year (manhandled Dwight); is a MUCH better shot blocker (gives you 2 blocks a game); Gives you 10-11 rebounds a game; Stretches the floor (Shooting 47% from 3) while not being afraid to post up; Is one of the best passing bigs in the league (3-4 assists a game); Is a perfect fit for Bud's offense. Meltdown I am surprised you even want to debate this.

Edited November 20, 2013 by GameTime

[Sothron]

Spencer Hawes is not a better all around player than Asik and it is not even close. Hawes has better offense but Asik is better on the boards and defensively and impacts the game more. Gortat would be better than Asik in this system.

lol you got the not even close part right. Asik has ZERO as in ZERO offense. Hawes can at least defend and board. Hawes is light years ahead of Asik in overall ability. LIGHT years.

[JTB]

He's closer in ability to Milsap than Asik but Asik answers a lot of our needs. Defense, size, getting an anchor back since Josh is gone, and someone who can rebound on the offensive boards. Both players allow Horf to go to play his true position.

I'm not gon lie nbasup you make a lot of good sense on this one and I can actually agree with you but man there's something about this deal that's just doesn't seem right.To me we lose a lot of offense if we trade milsap but gain better defense with asik. But I don't see how that puts us in any greater position for a title than we are now.

[NBASupes]

I'm not gon lie nbasup you make a lot of good sense on this one and I can actually agree with you but man there's something about this deal that's just doesn't seem right.To me we lose a lot of offense if we trade milsap but gain better defense with asik. But I don't see how that puts us in any greater position for a title than we are now.

I don't think either player helps us become contenders. We are still seriously missing a superstar type but both players brings different things to the table which can us. Seriously, we need a true center more than a stretch PF since Horf is one as well.

[LamarHampton]

I don't think we are going after Asik for the simple reason that next year he makes $15M. I don't care about the salary cap hit only being $8M, I just don't see DF or the ASG going for that. That is reason enough. But when coupled with his lack of offense, that's just one more reason not to do that deal.So it's either keep Sap or trade for someone with a better deal and real value. Hawes or Gortat would be interesting.Now, if Asik could go ahead and agree to and sign an extension with us, well that would be worth considering. But not where he just comes here for 1.5 yrs, makes a ton of cash, then likely walks. And I don't know for sure, but I don't think Asik could sign an extension until next year. So stick a fork in that discussion as far as I am concerned.

Edited November 20, 2013 by LamarHampton

[Guest]

I actually believe Asik is better overall than Hawes. Asik is solid on defense and is a beast on the boards and actually plays an inside game, the way a center is supposed to play. Physical down low, bangin people around. Hawes on the other hand is a finess 5, a guy that stands at the 3 point line waiting to shoot. We already have our shooting guard Korver doing that. Horford wants to be a power forward to bang around less with big centers inside. If we got Hawes, Horford would be called a pf, but would really still play center. I guarantee you Horford would want a center like Asik more than a center like Hawes.IMHO

[Diesel]

Solid man defender, decent team defender, solid offensive player, good size, good BBIQ compared to great defensive player, below average offensive player, very good size, and good BBIQ. I can see why some would rather Hawes over Asik. Hawes has been much better this year than Asik and it's not close.

Hawes has one thing that these other guys don't. His dad played for Ferry's dad. Ferry knows the Hawes family. A little family business might ensue... but I'd rather have Asik and the first.

[Jody23]

I think Houston has set there sites a little higher than Millsap when it comes to dealing Asik.

[NBASupes]

I think Houston has set there sites a little higher than Millsap when it comes to dealing Asik.

lol, they aren't getting Rondo. That's like us getting Melo for Josh Smith.

[MaceCase]

I actually believe Asik is better overall than Hawes. Asik is solid on defense and is a beast on the boards and actually plays an inside game, the way a center is supposed to play. Physical down low, bangin people around. Hawes on the other hand is a finess 5, a guy that stands at the 3 point line waiting to shoot. We already have our shooting guard Korver doing that. Horford wants to be a power forward to bang around less with big centers inside. If we got Hawes, Horford would be called a pf, but would really still playcenter. I guarantee you Horford would want a center like Asik more than a center like Hawes.IMHO

You'd have a bigger issue with Asik considering that teams don't bother defending him at all outside of putting a body on him for boxouts. It'll actually be worse for Al because not only does he still have to bang against the big guys, he'll also have less space to operate with considering that two or more defenders will be zoning after him instead of one and they'll do this knowing that Asik isn't going to make them pay for it. This is even trickles down to Teague having less space to penetrate and if you thought Zaza had bad hands shovels, hand offs, dump offs, etc. you should check out the granite mittens on Asik.

[NBASupes]

You'd have a bigger issue with Asik considering that teams don't bother defending him at all outside of putting a body on him for boxouts. It'll actually be worse for Al because not only does he still have to bang against the big guys, he'll also have less space to operate with considering that two or more defenders will be zoning after him instead of one and they'll do this knowing that Asik isn't going to make them pay for it. This is even trickles down to Teague having less space to penetrate and if you thought Zaza had bad hands shovels, hand offs, dump offs, etc. you should check out the granite mittens on Asik.

Naw, Asik is good for 10 ppg given the mins and he does a respectable close basket game so Al would be more free with Asik than what you are saying. Because he has decent mobility for a center and he is extremely good at setting picks, he is not a liability especially if he is playing with a stretch four. He seem to play his best with a stretch four and seemed to be okay when it was playing with Gibson but excelled with Boozer. So I cannot agree with the statement he will make it harder for Al at all. I will say that I worry about taking a legit 16 ppg out of the starting five that needs all the scorers it can get. Asik is a 10 ppg player but more in the mold of Zaza where it is close basket and hustle points and the occasional jumper.

[Watchman]

Hawes has one thing that these other guys don't. His dad played for Ferry's dad. Ferry knows the Hawes family. A little family business might ensue... but I'd rather have Asik and the first.

His uncle played for the Hawks, but like his uncle, he is more of a finesse center than a banger.

[MaceCase]

Naw, Asik is good for 10 ppg given the mins and he does a respectable close basket game so Al would be more free with Asik than what you are saying. Because he has decent mobility for a center and he is extremely good at setting picks, he is not a liability especially if he is playing with a stretch four. He seem to play his best with a stretch four and seemed to be okay when it was playing with Gibson but excelled with Boozer. So I cannot agree with the statement he will make it harder for Al at all. I will say that I worry about taking a legit 16 ppg out of the starting five that needs all the scorers it can get. Asik is a 10 ppg player but more in the mold of Zaza where it is close basket and hustle points and the occasional jumper.

Sorry, Scout, but your assessment just isn't consistent. 10 points on 8 shots isn't efficient at all especially once you factor in the amount that he turns the ball over too which is rather ridiculous for someone who handles the ball so little and in such a limited area on offense.

You say he excels with a stretch 4 and offensive post player, which Al either isn't or doesn't want to limit himself to. Al's ability is that he can attack off of multiple opportunities created by others and inserting Asik in just means that the HiLo is gone so already his game is being limited in that regard. He no longer has a frontcourt passer or guy who can reasonably create his own scoring opportunities like Sap or even Josh before him to open up space for him or hit him in the seams.

You are incorrect in that he is in mold of Zaza because Zaza was a shockingly better offensive player. Asik may be a better finisher when he can actually gather the ball and put it up but he has worse hands, is a worse passer, has less range (attempted all of 18 shots outside of 10 feet all last year to Zaza's 64 in considerably less minutes) so yea, really is limited to setting screens and putbacks whereas Zaza could dabble in a bit more (even to his own detriment at times)

You are correct in that this team can't afford to lose any scorers. You aren't only removing Sap's PPG but Al's numbers will take a slight dip, same with Jeffrey who's scoring average is only being buoyed by his ridiculous FTrate which is harder to maintain with a more packed paint. Yes there'll be a boost in defense but there aren't any Derrick Roses or James Hardens on this squad to actually put the ball in the basket at a consistent rate and Asik isn't exactly transforming your defense to near historic levels to offset it. The current rankings will just flip from where it is now to a top 10 defense with middle of the pack O, which just means no net change.

[NBASupes]

Sorry, Scout, but your assessment just isn't consistent. 10 points on 8 shots isn't efficient at all especially once you factor in the amount that he turns the ball over too which is rather ridiculous for someone who handles the ball so little and in such a limited area on offense.

You say he excels with a stretch 4 and offensive post player, which Al either isn't or doesn't want to limit himself to. Al's ability is that he can attack off of multiple opportunities created by others and inserting Asik in just means that the HiLo is gone so already his game is being limited in that regard. He no longer has a frontcourt passer or guy who can reasonably create his own scoring opportunities like Sap or even Josh before him to open up space for him or hit him in the seams.

You are incorrect in that he is in mold of Zaza because Zaza was a shockingly better offensive player. Asik may be a better finisher when he can actually gather the ball and put it up but he has worse hands, is a worse passer, has less range (attempted all of 18 shots outside of 10 feet all last year to Zaza's 64 in considerably less minutes) so yea, really is limited to setting screens and putbacks whereas Zaza could dabble in a bit more (even to his own detriment at times)

You are correct in that this team can't afford to lose any scorers. You aren't only removing Sap's PPG but Al's numbers will take a slight dip, same with Jeffrey who's scoring average is only being buoyed by his ridiculous FTrate which is harder to maintain with a more packed paint. Yes there'll be a boost in defense but there aren't any Derrick Roses or James Hardens on this squad to actually put the ball in the basket at a consistent rate and Asik isn't exactly transforming your defense to near historic levels to offset it. The current rankings will just flip from where it is now to a top 10 defense with middle of the pack O, which just means no net change.

We agree to disagree. I respect your opinion regardless.