Discussion from game thread about Hawks attendance

[Admin]

((searches for World's Best Moderator mugs))

~lw3

It's only right since I started the side tracking of the discussion lol

[NBASupes]

Chris Paul and Blake Griffin are in the top 10 in NBA jersey sales for this year so they are about as big as you're going to get, outside of Miami, of a fan draw for non-Hawks fans.

Atlanta generally doesn't get behind Western Conference teams outside of the Lakers which is truly Atlanta's #1 team.

[NBASupes]

The announcers were correct. Atlanta has plenty of basketball fans, but not many Hawks fans. If not for this message board I would have assumed that I was the only hardcore Hawks fan left on the planet.

I remember being in High School and my freshman year of college being the only Hawks fan of the crew. No one watched or talked about the Hawks. It was always about the Lakers, Kings and the Sixers. Then T-Mac and then Lebron. Atlanta is a star driven Basketball market. The only teams people care about are the contenders or the ones with stars. The Hawks have never been in either position.

[NBASupes]

The simple truth is their aren't a lot of Hawks fans in Atlanta. People love the football and baseball. Hoops? Not so much. When we play big market teams their fans come out. If we find a way to attract these fans the attendance will rise. This brand of basketball is a nice start. Getting the player out there would be another. The Hawks don't do enough promotion. Most people don't even know when they have a game. Blame it on the team and not the fans.

I know a lot more Basketball fans than Football fans for pro sports in Atlanta. Now I know a lot more fans of the Falcons and Braves than the Hawks. I knew more Thrashers fans than Hawks fan and I been all over the state.

[NBASupes]

Atlanta is either third, fifth or seventh in NBA total revenue in America. It goes up or down but every metric the NBA shares or some other outside company does for them shows time and time again that Atlanta is a top ten at minimum city for NBA fans and viewers. People know the Hawks are in Atlanta. They just choose not to go to the games. Which I agree with you is sad.

This is sad because Dolfan should know this. This board is a prime example. Look how little members we have even compared to truemagicnation and bobcatsplanet. Pelicansreports shits on us in terms of members. Is it Dolf fault who has the best site visuals and content wise on the net? No. We just don't have many Hawks fans. This city is not like Charlotte where they support anything that says Charlotte. This isn't like Memphis or Milwaukee, where there isn't much to do. This is Atlanta. The only city comparable is Philadelphia and Los Angeles. We flat out don't support without a marquee player. Unlike Philly or LA, we never have one from the start so it makes it harder to complain.

I already said, outside of a couple of games, until this team gets a potential superstar or Dennis gets close, I have no interest in spending money on this product. Not entertained at all. I hate it to be honest. I only support them because I support Atlanta. I would rather be a fan of the Heat and Lebron. They win, it's great Basketball, and Lebron dominates. The Hawks need to do what it takes to get players who can do that for us.

Edited December 19, 2013 by nbasupes40retired

[Guest]

I know you feel that the blame is on the team but I just don't agree. We've had the same crappy owners and the same mess in the public eye for what 8 years now? The fans came out and supported us pretty well in the latter half of the 2000's but this decade the fan support has gotten progressively worse, while the team has maintained the status quo and has built for the future and as far as I know haven't done anything publicly embarrassing in the past 2 years. At the end of the day the Hawks players are putting out a good product and the fans aren't showing up to support them. That's my angle on things.

It should be on the team, I don't see any other way to get around that. This isn't a charity or a school, it is a business. What other business sits there and produces a product then yells about how no one is buying the product? Maybe the Microsoft Zune or something, but the business has to react. Why is it the consumers fault at all? The consumers are clearly signaling to the team "we don't like your product" by not attending the game. Try a different technique, do not try to keep forcing the same lame shit year after year. Move prices, get a new marketing agency, improve your team, change the in-game experience, push for different transportation options, lobby the city to expand Marta. SOMETHING!

I will add that it appears the Hawks have been trying different things lately. Earlier this year, the players went out to High School football games on a random Friday and handed out free swag or what have you. Good. That is an improvement. Fox SportSouth stole my idea about having a bus to the games, but that is also a step in the right direction of improving your product (FSS has an interest in the Hawks doing well and the Hawks have an interest in FSS doing well, so I think of it as A$G by extension). Good!

I also just now caught your guess a few posts back that this team will average less than 14k a game. I doubt that as our attendance generally increases around this time of the year. I will even be generous and say you were trying to embellish the effects of crappy fans and we will actually average more than 15k per game.

Let's make that a bet, loser has to donate $100 to the Hawksquawk? (you're playing with house money here!)

Edited December 19, 2013 by hawksfanatic

[Admin]

This is sad because Dolfan should know this. This board is a prime example. Look how little members we have even compared to truemagicnation and bobcatsplanet. Pelicansreports shits on us in terms of members. Is it Dolf fault who has the best site visuals and content wise on the net? No. We just don't have many Hawks fans. This city is not like Charlotte where they support anything that says Charlotte. This isn't like Memphis or Milwaukee, where there isn't much to do. This is Atlanta. The only city comparable is Philadelphia and Los Angeles. We flat out don't support without a marquee player. Unlike Philly or LA, we never have one from the start so it makes it harder to complain.

I already said, outside of a couple of games, until this team gets a potential superstar or Dennis gets close, I have no interest in spending money on this product. Not entertained at all. I hate it to be honest. I only support them because I support Atlanta. I would rather be a fan of the Heat and Lebron. They win, it's great Basketball, and Lebron dominates. The Hawks need to do what it takes to get players who can do that for us.

Aww you're too kind Soup!

[Guest]

Aww you're too kind Soup!

I never thought the objective of the Hawksquawk was to have the most posters. If it was, then you could spam the internets trying to get more and more posters. Seems like the objective is to have good quality posters on here that are also civil. I have been to other boards, and as far as top quality posters go we have just as many.

[Admin]

It should be on the team, I don't see any other way to get around that. This isn't a charity or a school, it is a business. What other business sits there and produces a product then yells about how no one is buying the product? Maybe the Microsoft Zune or something, but the business has to react. Why is it the consumers fault at all? The consumers are clearly signaling to the team "we don't like your product" by not attending the game. Try a different technique, do not try to keep forcing the same lame shit year after year. Move prices, get a new marketing agency, improve your team, change the in-game experience, push for different transportation options, lobby the city to expand Marta. SOMETHING!

I will add that it appears the Hawks have been trying different things lately. Earlier this year, the players went out to High School football games on a random Friday and handed out free swag or what have you. Good. That is an improvement. Fox SportSouth stole my idea about having a bus to the games, but that is also a step in the right direction of improving your product (FSS has an interest in the Hawks doing well and the Hawks have an interest in FSS doing well, so I think of it as A$G by extension). Good!

I also just now caught your guess a few posts back that this team will average less than 14k a game. I doubt that as our attendance generally increases around this time of the year. I will even be generous and say you were trying to embellish the effects of crappy fans and we will actually average more than 15k per game.

Let's make that a bet, loser has to donate $100 to the Hawksquawk? (you're playing with house money here!)

If a business puts out a proven quality product and the people don't use it, who's fault is that? Do we blame the business for making a quality product or the consumers for not supporting it? That's pretty simple to me. And I get what you're saying about the team needing to stop forcing the same stuff down the people's throats but that argument doesn't fly as we've gotten a new GM, new head coach, new players, quality draft choices for the first time in forever and yet attendance continues to trend downwards. The people may be screaming but they have no idea what they're screaming about.

You got it on the bet of 15k but you're really not making a good bet here. They've got 27 home games left to make up a difference of 1,300 fans per game to get to 15k, meaning from here on out they've got to average (carry the 1) 15,674 per game to make up that difference. You sure you want to bet on there being an average of almost 2,000k fans per game more than what we've averaged thus far?

[NBASupes]

I never thought the objective of the Hawksquawk was to have the most posters. If it was, then you could spam the internets trying to get more and more posters. Seems like the objective is to have good quality posters on here that are also civil. I have been to other boards, and as far as top quality posters go we have just as many.

We have good fans but more fans equal more topics. Of course, it could be worse but it could also be much better. I like traffic on a message board. Sure, the quality isn't always there but more topics usually gives you a board you check more often which is more money for Dolf and sturt.

[Watchman]

45 miles to the arena, horrible traffic, bad neighborhood. I bet that if the Hawks played in Gwinnett or Cobb (assuming that they did not choose I-285/I-75 or I-285/I-85 interchanges for the arena location) or even the airport area would do better than railroad gulch.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Watchman

[Admin]

I never thought the objective of the Hawksquawk was to have the most posters. If it was, then you could spam the internets trying to get more and more posters. Seems like the objective is to have good quality posters on here that are also civil. I have been to other boards, and as far as top quality posters go we have just as many.

No the objective has never been to have the largest membership. That's why I require double authentication and I hand review every new member to make sure they aren't a spammer or already a member. I want the best members we can have so that discussion here is great and I think we have a terrific group of people who make this one of the more educational and entertaining places around with very little of that the sky is falling crap you see on a daily basis at most other sites. My Dolphins site has 123,000 total members, while Hawksquawk has 2,764 members and let me tell you, I won't go on that site for 5 days after a loss because it's unbearable with how many horrible posts there are. Here we've got a few who are pretty negative, Hotlanta and Vol4ever and MrMeltdown I'm speaking to you, but other than them we've got a pretty level group who don't get too down after a loss. That's the way I think it should be.

[Admin]

We have good fans but more fans equal more topics. Of course, it could be worse but it could also be much better. I like traffic on a message board. Sure, the quality isn't always there but more topics usually gives you a board you check more often which is more money for Dolf and sturt.

I wish we had more good members but we don't has the fanbase that other sites have and we don't just let anyone say whatever the hell they want to say to anyone here and that turns a lot of people off. And there's no money in this for me (and certainly not Sturt as he's not the owner of the site for the past 11 years lol... that would be Chillz) but we don't make money here we actually lose money as we only have about 10 people who help support the site.

[Guest]

If a business puts out a proven quality product and the people don't use it, who's fault is that? Do we blame the business for making a quality product or the consumers for not supporting it? That's pretty simple to me. And I get what you're saying about the team needing to stop forcing the same stuff down the people's throats but that argument doesn't fly as we've gotten a new GM, new head coach, new players, quality draft choices for the first time in forever and yet attendance continues to trend downwards. The people may be screaming but they have no idea what they're screaming about.

I'm not sure this is a proven product. And this is the first time in what, 8 years we have made a significant change to the team? Let's give it some time before we condemn the fans for reacting "poorly" as I see this as the fans being cautious about the uncertainty surrounding the team. When a new product comes out, are you the first to buy it? Or in other words, would I find a Sega Dreamcast on the Dolfan purchase list? Probably not from Nolan Ryan, that's for sure.

You got it on the bet of 15k but you're really not making a good bet here. They've got 27 home games left to make up a difference of 1,300 fans per game to get to 15k, meaning from here on out they've got to average (carry the 1) 15,674 per game to make up that difference. You sure you want to bet on there being an average of almost 2,000k fans per game more than what we've averaged thus far?

Oh I'm sure about the bet. It is a win-win-win situation for me. Either I am right, it gets you to shutup about "crappy fans" and the 'Squawk gets some more money to go into their marketing budget. Or I am wrong, in that case the 'Squawk gets some more money to go into their marketing budget. How can I lose?

[Admin]

45 miles to the arena, horrible traffic, bad neighborhood. I bet that if the Hawks played in Gwinnett or Cobb (assuming that they did not choose I-285/I-75 or I-285/I-85 interchanges for the arena location) or even the airport area would do better than railroad gulch.

That's really the only fair and objective argument for the fans that I can see here. I don't know that area, the traffic or anything like that so I have to take you all's word for it but it doesn't sound like someplace you'd want to take your family.

[Admin]

I'm not sure this is a proven product. And this is the first time in what, 8 years we have made a significant change to the team? Let's give it some time before we condemn the fans for reacting "poorly" as I see this as the fans being cautious about the uncertainty surrounding the team. When a new product comes out, are you the first to buy it? Or in other words, would I find a Sega Dreamcast on the Dolfan purchase list? Probably not from Nolan Ryan, that's for sure.

Oh I'm sure about the bet. It is a win-win-win situation for me. Either I am right, it gets you to shutup about "crappy fans" and the 'Squawk gets some more money to go into their marketing budget. Or I am wrong, in that case the 'Squawk gets some more money to go into their marketing budget. How can I lose?

I think we've a proven product as we've got the longest playoff streak in the NBA (fact check that for me) and that's saying something. We don't have a proven product as in being a legit championship contender and I think that's part of the problem is that Atlanta fans don't love the team enough to support them if they aren't a championship contender at the least... might even require a superstar player on top of it as Lethal mentioned earlier.

Haha actually I love testing out new stuff and buying it. I'm constantly using alpha and beta software and trying out new stuff so that argument isn't good for me but I get your point. Not that I agree that the Hawks are a new product, but I see what you're saying.

Well you've got a bet then!

[Guest]

Atlanta residents who are bball fans in general just don't care about the Hawks. They won't until we have a bonified electric star.

They want highflying dunks, blocks out of bounds that kind of stuff. All I heard on the radio when Josh left was this team won't be exciting anymore, highlight factory no more, etc. They didn't even give this product a chance.

The game before last we went to - this guy two rows down from me looked back at me and asked 'you a Hawks fan' (I get loud at games) with an incredulous look, as if I shouldn't be....smh.

[Admin]

Atlanta residents who are bball fans in general just don't care about the Hawks. They won't until we have a bonified electric star.

They want highflying dunks, blocks out of bounds that kind of stuff. All I heard on the radio when Josh left was this team won't be exciting anymore, highlight factory no more, etc. They didn't even give this product a chance.

The game before last we went to - this guy two rows down from me looked back at me and asked 'you a Hawks fan' (I get loud at games) with an incredulous look, as if I shouldn't be....smh.

Off topic but I wonder if you were in The Hunger Games, would you be a mockingjay or a jabberjay?

[NBASupes]

That's really the only fair and objective argument for the fans that I can see here. I don't know that area, the traffic or anything like that so I have to take you all's word for it but it doesn't sound like someplace you'd want to take your family.

They overstate how bad it is. It's much worse in DC but there is a lot to do in DC than in Atlanta after a game. I can walk down a street and Fuddruckers or Hooters is right there as well as Mickey D's. Then you can take the metro to Ben's Chill Bowl and go club hopping. It's a lot to do in a short area. Atlanta is kind of spaced out.

[Guest]

Off topic but I wonder if you were in The Hunger Games, would you be a mockingjay or a jabberjay?

I guess a mockingjay since the jabberjays are all male.

what's it with you trying to hi-jack this newthread YOU created with Hunger Games talk.