Without a Lottery pick, what will Ferry do?

[frosgrim]

I have been reading the post for some time so I decided to join for this thread Jusuf Nurkic is a center and if he applies for the draft he would probably be a 15-20 pick so in theory Atlanta could sing him.Also I think that Atlanta should look at Sergio Rodriguez from Real Madrid he is a 27 year old classical PG.He last played in the NBA 3 years ago so he should be a free agent.

My understanding is that Sergio is very happy in Europe and doesn't want to come back to the US (per NBA radio yesterday). If the Hawks traded Jeff and promised Sergio a shot at starting he might come back, but from what I heard yesterday he's making a ton of money and has a lot of endorsements in Europe.

[Plainview1981]

Our pick this year, if we stay as is, will likely be around #12, whether or not we trade picks. Neither Brook nor the Hawks are bad enough to slip much farther.

Basically, this year is worthless.

Outside of a decent coaching hire, Ferry looks to be mediocre just like the rest.

[Plainview1981]

That's my thinking. The whole "wait and see if we get lucky" approach isn't going to be effective. I think Bud will always have us playing good team ball, but I just don't see the assets needed to put us over the top.

Pretty much. He will fail just like he did this past offseason.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Hotlanta1981

[Jody23]

I guess what Ferry has been doing is to rid the team of bad contracts and/or players, acquire nice players (Korver, Millsap) and decent draft picks to acquire assetts and then look to either trade for the big player or sign a key FA. Looks like a tactic that a few teams have used. Will it work for the Hawks? Our pick this year, if we stay as is, will likely be around #12, whether or not we trade picks. Neither Brook nor the Hawks are bad enough to slip much farther. This season can only be seen as developmental, especially after the Horford injury. So hopefully the plan is for next and following seasons. Our ROOKIE coach seems to have clearly demonstrated that he is a big success, another one of Ferry's good moves. With Millsap becoming an expiring next season, I think we should quickly choose between short term success or long term success. If we want to make a run next season, keep the key players and trade some of the young assetts and/or picks. If we don't think we can put a 2015 title competitor together for next year, trade Millsap, Korver, Lou, JT and invest in the younger Hawks. Keep Horford as our one good player and/or future trade asset for a total rebuild. This choice should be made now to profit in the pre- deadline moves. With all the tankers, it's an interesting time to maybe pick up a nice player from a tanking team, or to trade our good players to some contender that wants to make a run. Unless the choice is to collect assets keeping what we have

A team that makes the playoffs does not get the 12th pick in the draft no matter what their record is.

[tbhawksfan]

A team that makes the playoffs does not get the 12th pick in the draft no matter what their record is.

I think the rule is; top three based on lottery, then based on record. If correct, a #8 team from the East could very well pick 12th

[DatWerkk]

Pretty much. He will fail just like he did this past offseason.

Fail, really? Not getting Dwight Howard completely wipes out the fact that he made probably the best value FA signing in the entire league? Not to mention that Korver's $6m/year doesn't look quite so ridiculous when you compare his production to that of other shooters who were signed for similar (or higher) amounts by other teams.

Is everything all or nothing with you?

[Jody23]

I think the rule is; top three based on lottery, then based on record. If correct, a #8 team from the East could very well pick 12th

That is not correct. The lottery determines the draft order of the 14 teams who do not make the playoffs. After that, the remaining order is determined by the regular season records of the teams that do make the playoffs. Therefore, a team that makes the playoffs cannot receive the 12th pick in the draft order.

[Peoriabird]

Is everything all or nothing with you?

Believe me...He aint the only one like this around these parts

[tbhawksfan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_draft_lottery

"Under the current rules, only the top three picks are deemed lottery picks and are chosen from the 14 teams that do not make the playoffs (with the number of lottery chances per each of the 14 teams being weighted according to record/finish (i.e. the worst team gets the most chances -- in the form of additional ping pong balls randomly drawn one at a time). The lottery is weighted so that the team with the worst record, or the team that holds the draft rights of the team with the worst record, has the best chance to obtain a higher draft pick. The lottery process determines the first three picks of the draft. After the top three selections are made (from the lottery slotting system), the remainder of the first-round draft order is in inverse order of the win-loss record for the remaining teams, or the teams who originally held the lottery rights if they were traded. The lottery does not determine the draft order in the subsequent rounds of the draft."

I cross checked this info on a couple more sites and found the same explication. Also looked at the new CBA and didn't see anything to change this. Another site:

"Four balls will be drawn to the top to determine a four-digit combination. The team that has been assigned that combination will receive the number one pick. The four balls are placed back in the drum and the process is repeated to determine the number two and three picks. (Note: If the one unassigned combination is drawn, the balls are drawn to the top again.)The order of selection for the teams that do not win one of the top three picks will be determined by inverse order of their regular season record.Read more at http://www.insidehoops.com/nba_draft_lottery.shtml#eHQ8PlJhiOI0vaBK.99

Four balls will be drawn to the top to determine a four-digit combination. The team that has been assigned that combination will receive the number one pick. The four balls are placed back in the drum and the process is repeated to determine the number two and three picks. (Note: If the one unassigned combination is drawn, the balls are drawn to the top again.)"

Edited January 12, 2014 by tbhawksfan

[Jody23]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_draft_lottery

"Under the current rules, only the top three picks are deemed lottery picks and are chosen from the 14 teams that do not make the playoffs (with the number of lottery chances per each of the 14 teams being weighted according to record/finish (i.e. the worst team gets the most chances -- in the form of additional ping pong balls randomly drawn one at a time). The lottery is weighted so that the team with the worst record, or the team that holds the draft rights of the team with the worst record, has the best chance to obtain a higher draft pick. The lottery process determines the first three picks of the draft. After the top three selections are made (from the lottery slotting system), the remainder of the first-round draft order is in inverse order of the win-loss record for the remaining teams, or the teams who originally held the lottery rights if they were traded. The lottery does not determine the draft order in the subsequent rounds of the draft."

I cross checked this info on a couple more sites and found the same explication. Also looked at the new CBA and didn't see anything to change this. Another site:

"Four balls will be drawn to the top to determine a four-digit combination. The team that has been assigned that combination will receive the number one pick. The four balls are placed back in the drum and the process is repeated to determine the number two and three picks. (Note: If the one unassigned combination is drawn, the balls are drawn to the top again.)

The order of selection for the teams that do not win one of the top three picks will be determined by inverse order of their regular season record.

Read more at http://www.insidehoops.com/nba_draft_lottery.shtml#eHQ8PlJhiOI0vaBK.99

Four balls will be drawn to the top to determine a four-digit combination. The team that has been assigned that combination will receive the number one pick. The four balls are placed back in the drum and the process is repeated to determine the number two and three picks. (Note: If the one unassigned combination is drawn, the balls are drawn to the top again.)"

Those explanations refer solely to the teams that do not make the playoffs and not the ones that do. If you've ever watched the lottery process, you'd see that the 14 teams that miss the playoffs are ALL awarded a pick in the top 14 at THAT time. The best pick a playoff team can be awarded is the 15th pick.

[Jody23]

Start watching at 14:20. This was the determination of the top 14 picks last year.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVgE2M7fZIQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Guest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_draft_lottery

"Under the current rules, only the top three picks are deemed lottery picks and are chosen from the 14 teams that do not make the playoffs (with the number of lottery chances per each of the 14 teams being weighted according to record/finish (i.e. the worst team gets the most chances -- in the form of additional ping pong balls randomly drawn one at a time). The lottery is weighted so that the team with the worst record, or the team that holds the draft rights of the team with the worst record, has the best chance to obtain a higher draft pick. The lottery process determines the first three picks of the draft. After the top three selections are made (from the lottery slotting system), the remainder of the first-round draft order is in inverse order of the win-loss record for the remaining teams, or the teams who originally held the lottery rights if they were traded. The lottery does not determine the draft order in the subsequent rounds of the draft."

I cross checked this info on a couple more sites and found the same explication. Also looked at the new CBA and didn't see anything to change this. Another site:

"Four balls will be drawn to the top to determine a four-digit combination. The team that has been assigned that combination will receive the number one pick. The four balls are placed back in the drum and the process is repeated to determine the number two and three picks. (Note: If the one unassigned combination is drawn, the balls are drawn to the top again.)The order of selection for the teams that do not win one of the top three picks will be determined by inverse order of their regular season record.Read more at http://www.insidehoops.com/nba_draft_lottery.shtml#eHQ8PlJhiOI0vaBK.99

Four balls will be drawn to the top to determine a four-digit combination. The team that has been assigned that combination will receive the number one pick. The four balls are placed back in the drum and the process is repeated to determine the number two and three picks. (Note: If the one unassigned combination is drawn, the balls are drawn to the top again.)"

The lottery is not defined in the CBA. The CBA is an agreement between the Players and the Owners and the ordering of the draft does not pertain to the Players. So the draft order is not something that can be collectively bargained upon. The draft order is determined in the NBA Constitution and By-Laws, an agreement between the owners on how they will operate against themselves. This would also include waiver wire procedures, playoff seeding, tie-breakers, etc. Those are not directly related to a player performing services and are rather ways of presenting the product.

The public has no ability to look at the NBA Constitution and By-Laws, we only go with what the NBA Owners release. And what they stipulate is how Jody23 is describing the procedure.

[Eddielives]

I for one still think the Nets probably will not make the playoffs. If Deron keeps having these nagging health issues, there's still a very good chance we get a pick somewhere around 10-15. When you consider that with the fact that Garnett is pretty much finished and Lopez out for the year, I see many more losses in Brooklyn's season.

[Jody23]

I for one still think the Nets probably will not make the playoffs. If Deron keeps having these nagging health issues, there's still a very good chance we get a pick somewhere around 10-15. When you consider that with the fact that Garnett is pretty much finished and Lopez out for the year, I see many more losses in Brooklyn's season.

I just don't see them missing the playoffs in this conference although I'll continue to hope they do. I just want Ferry to have ENOUGH fire power to get us championship caliber talent. A lottery pick in this draft would be huge, whether it is used to select a player or in a trade. Outside of that, it's going to be difficult.

[tbhawksfan]

Thanks for the info.

If you take a look at the standings and figure in the teams that are truly in tank mode, it looks very unlikely that Brook will miss the playoffs. Very little chance that they will give us a bunch of ping pong balls. If we want a high lott pick, our best chance is to tank. Too many teams tanking and have a head start, so it looks like a top 8 pick is VERY unlikely no matter what.

[Sothron]

I for one still think the Nets probably will not make the playoffs. If Deron keeps having these nagging health issues, there's still a very good chance we get a pick somewhere around 10-15. When you consider that with the fact that Garnett is pretty much finished and Lopez out for the year, I see many more losses in Brooklyn's season.

Take a minute to go look, objectively, at every team in the Eastern conference. Then look at the standings. There has never been so many teams blatantly tanking as this season before. Any team that wants to make the playoffs in the East will be able to do so. There are simply too many teams tanking. A spot will be open for the Nets.

[MaceCase]

Take a minute to go look, objectively, at every team in the Eastern conference. Then look at the standings. There has never been so many teams blatantly tanking as this season before. Any team that wants to make the playoffs in the East will be able to do so. There are simply too many teams tanking. A spot will be open for the Nets.

I think you are confusing tanking with just being bad....of which the Nets are also culprits.

Only Orlando and Philly strike me as teams "blatantly" tanking but that was evident even from their offseason moves and even then Philly still manages to compete night in and out. Milwaukee really is in a place where tanking wasn't their motive but it's their only option now.

Bos doesn't appear to have a tank in mind given that they are talking of bringing Rondo back before the end of this month but this is a TBD.

Cle doesn't appear to be tanking given the package that they just gave up for Deng. No matter the results, their intention is the playoffs.

The Knicks have zero to gain from tanking, are clearly a win now core and have put together just as good of a win streak as the Nets.

Charlotte didn't set out to tank, they've just been beset by injuries and hit a rough stretch of opponents.

Then there are the Pistons, Wizards and Bulls who aren't tanking either and are ahead of the Nets for the last few playoff spots. That is 6 teams all within 3 games and competing for the 7th and 8th seed. I don't see any of them fading soon so it is still premature to declare the Nets as favorites for the playoffs and claim everyone else to be tanking. The Nets, after all, had to put together their longest win streak of the season just to hold the 8th seed by half a game. You have to imagine that they would require similar efforts to hold it to speak nothing of moving up the standings.

[Sothron]

I think you are confusing tanking with just being bad....of which the Nets are also culprits.

Only Orlando and Philly strike me as teams "blatantly" tanking but that was evident even from their offseason moves and even then Philly still manages to compete night in and out. Milwaukee really is in a place where tanking wasn't their motive but it's their only option now.

Bos doesn't appear to have a tank in mind given that they are talking of bringing Rondo back before the end of this month but this is a TBD.

Cle doesn't appear to be tanking given the package that they just gave up for Deng. No matter the results, their intention is the playoffs.

The Knicks have zero to gain from tanking, are clearly a win now core and have put together just as good of a win streak as the Nets.

Charlotte didn't set out to tank, they've just been beset by injuries and hit a rough stretch of opponents.

Then there are the Pistons, Wizards and Bulls who aren't tanking either and are ahead of the Nets for the last few playoff spots. That is 6 teams all within 3 games and competing for the 7th and 8th seed. I don't see any of them fading soon so it is still premature to declare the Nets as favorites for the playoffs and claim everyone else to be tanking. The Nets, after all, had to put together their longest win streak of the season just to hold the 8th seed by half a game. You have to imagine that they would require similar efforts to hold it to speak nothing of moving up the standings.

Orl, Phi, Chi, Bos are openly tanking and Cha and Mil are ghetto tanking. The only teams in the East outside of the big two actually trying to make the playoffs are Atl, Cle, NYK, Bkn, Was, Det and Tor. That gives us a "cushion" of maybe two teams that might beat out the Nets for the last playoff spot. And frankly it wouldn't shock me to see both Tor and Was blow up their rosters and go into tank mode at the deadline.

[tbhawksfan]

Fail, really? Not getting Dwight Howard completely wipes out the fact that he made probably the best value FA signing in the entire league? Not to mention that Korver's $6m/year doesn't look quite so ridiculous when you compare his production to that of other shooters who were signed for similar (or higher) amounts by other teams.

Is everything all or nothing with you?

I have to say that I'm feeliing frustrated by the teams situation. I loved Ferry's early moves shedding us of the bad contracts and players. Love the coach. Not so sure about the Millsap signing or Korver signings. Taking into account their signings, it's clear that Ferry was playing to win, without breaking the bank. But the best player we signed plays the same position as our best player should play. Korver is a great role/complement player, but his age, contract and the teams position leave me doubting. Even without Horf's injury, we were not going to win it this season.

"Is everything all or nothing"? Yes, play to win, not to be OK and make money. You can't do it all at once, but you should decide on a path and consistently work towards it. Last off-season's moves are only good if Millsap and Korver are traded to build towards the goal of being the best. If the plan was to keep Sap, then the contract is too short.

[MaceCase]

Yes, play to win, not to be OK and make money.

You clearly aren't an NBA team owner.