Without a Lottery pick, what will Ferry do?

[tbhawksfan]

You clearly aren't an NBA team owner.

I assume you arn't either. i.e. you're a fan, like me. As a fan I want them to win a championship; every year. If they arn't going to win it, they should either be close enough to stand pat or building the team that will win it.

If my ownership doesn't want to win, then they should be run out of ownership...tarring and feathering comes to mind

[Vol4ever]

Unfortunately this shows the state of the Hawks over the last 13 years or so.

I think we have a great coach, not sold on the GM yet, he has to show me something on the draft and trade front first, until then he is no different than the others.

[Jody23]

Orl, Phi, Chi, Bos are openly tanking and Cha and Mil are ghetto tanking. The only teams in the East outside of the big two actually trying to make the playoffs are Atl, Cle, NYK, Bkn, Was, Det and Tor. That gives us a "cushion" of maybe two teams that might beat out the Nets for the last playoff spot. And frankly it wouldn't shock me to see both Tor and Was blow up their rosters and go into tank mode at the deadline.

I think Boston's trade of Jordan Crawford and Marshon Brooks for Joel Anthony should further solidify the fact that Boston is tanking. Once Rondo is healthy enough, I think he'll be the next to go before the deadline. Edited January 15, 2014 by Jody23

[tbhawksfan]

Yeah, Boston really knows how to rebuild. Won championship last time they did it. I WANT Ferry to make some moves that show a direction. Even without the Horf injury our chances were minimal of being anything but a #3 seed LIGHT. This team has no depth and isn't top heavy on talent.

So, what was this season? Rebuild? Play for the playoffs with no chance to win? Trade the youth or picks to make a run. Trade the valuable assets? What the hell are we doing? What moves have been made to set this VERY incomplete team up for next year?

[Admin]

Yeah, Boston really knows how to rebuild. Won championship last time they did it. I WANT Ferry to make some moves that show a direction. Even without the Horf injury our chances were minimal of being anything but a #3 seed LIGHT. This team has no depth and isn't top heavy on talent.

So, what was this season? Rebuild? Play for the playoffs with no chance to win? Trade the youth or picks to make a run. Trade the valuable assets? What the hell are we doing? What moves have been made to set this VERY incomplete team up for next year?

Just as Ferry said we are BUILDING something. He never said they were trying to win this year and his draft picks (young, highly talented but raw picks this year) and his signings (great value, short deals) signal that he's building the team and getting as many trade assets as he can. You guys just need to learn to be patient, this is 1.5 years into Ferry's term and he's already gotten us a significantly brighter looking future than we had before he took over.

[tbhawksfan]

Just as Ferry said we are BUILDING something. He never said they were trying to win this year and his draft picks (young, highly talented but raw picks this year) and his signings (great value, short deals) signal that he's building the team and getting as many trade assets as he can. You guys just need to learn to be patient, this is 1.5 years into Ferry's term and he's already gotten us a significantly brighter looking future than we had before he took over.

Those assets he's collecting have to make sense. The short signings only seem to make sense if he flips them. I'll just keep asking what the plan is until it becomes clear. Collecting mid round picks and second tier players (at best) might not be good enough.

If he's in the collecting assets mode, then what's the plan with Millsap?

[MaceCase]

I assume you arn't either. i.e. you're a fan, like me. As a fan I want them to win a championship; every year. If they arn't going to win it, they should either be close enough to stand pat or building the team that will win it. If my ownership doesn't want to win, then they should be run out of ownership...tarring and feathering comes to mind

You better prepare a diesel tanker full of tar and start gutting all your pillows then. I believe the theme of the recent lockout by the owners was "we aren't making enough money" but I could be entirely wrong on the matter.

[tbhawksfan]

You better prepare a diesel tanker full of tar and start gutting all your pillows then. I believe the theme of the recent lockout by the owners was "we aren't making enough money" but I could be entirely wrong on the matter.

I can deffinately believe that the owners want more money, the players want more money. I want better basketball and a fair shake.

The new CBA has resulted in less guananteed deals and the low salaried players are getting less. They are also letting good players sit out and signing them to non-guaranteed deals which affects team chemistry...etc... The money side is bitting into the quality side.

I don't mind "tanking". At least you can get some young high picks and if things are done right, you can watch them grow up and possibly contend. Buy a champ through FA or trade; OK. You got to have a plan and I don't want treadmill.

[Guest]

How long was it from when Boston did their rebuild to when they won the Championship?

They tanked for Tim Duncan in 1997 (was so glad they didn't get him), drafted PP in 1998 (it took him 4 years to get to playoffs and they got to the ECF, Celtics hadn't been to the playoffs for 7 years prior) traded for Ray and KG in 2007, so that's....let see carry the 1 subtract 2 - 9 years.

Ferry has completed one full season.

Edited January 15, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[yungsta]

im jealous of the magic and celtics rebuild. Both of their GM's already set their team up nicely for the future.

The celtics are loaded with a bunch of future picks and the magic are loaded with a bunch of young assets and have their picks. They were able to do this in a short amount of time.

Not only that but they will both get high picks in this year's loaded draft.

[Admin]

Those assets he's collecting have to make sense. The short signings only seem to make sense if he flips them. I'll just keep asking what the plan is until it becomes clear. Collecting mid round picks and second tier players (at best) might not be good enough.

If he's in the collecting assets mode, then what's the plan with Millsap?

Man we're still over a month from the trading deadline of his 1st season actually having assets. The lack of patience here is mind boggling.

[Vol4ever]

Man we're still over a month from the trading deadline of his 1st season actually having assets. The lack of patience here is mind boggling.

What are the assets you speak of? We have a middle of the first round pick, a injured Horf, Sapp, and Teague. I would add Schröder as an asset, but everyone else has no value. Who would we trade for at the deadline? We have no cap available.

[Guest Zone]

Yeah, that's another aspect of the current situation that's pretty frustrating. This team doesn't have the assets a team like Phoenix, or Boston currently has. When a big player ends up on the trade block, I just can't see a team particularly dealing with Atlanta when some of the other squads could offer more.

[tbhawksfan]

Patience is good, but you have to be waiting for something, not just waiting. other teams have decided; win or lose, and have already positioned themselves. Why sign Sap, but not complete the job. If Ferry wanted to win now, Sap, Korver, JT and Scrubs was not good enough. If he's building, then why sign Sap short and not move him?

I can be patient IF I see a plan. If mediocrity and thriftiness are the plan, then I have no patience.

Sometimes supporting your team means NOT supporting the clowns at the top. If they aren't going to do what needs to be done, then they shouldn't be there. No support from me.

These are some of the reasons that I'm frustrated with money ball. Some percentage of owners really can't or won't win, they are just there to own and exploit for profit. They aren't really even playing the game. Take out the money and let picking and developing talent and chemistry decide the winners, not budget.

NBA is really just a microcosm of society in general. The haves play a game that is inaccessable to most, the have nots have to find their niche, usually just existing to serve the haves. Where is the compettition when your playing a stacked deck against priviledge.

Look at the list of the past winners and you see the same teams represented year after year. look at the list of losers and you see the same teams year after year.

What do I want the Hawks to do; be bold, rock the boat, take risks.

I can see why some here are saying that Ferry hasn't done anything yet. Yes he unloaded bad contracts and players, but did he replace them with better players? NO; not as a whole.

Are we building or trying to win now? There is a difference and you have to commit to something, unless you'rd playing mediocre ball.

I don't care how long it took Boston; they made the moves and they won. Squeezed everything out of that group and now they're reloading. I expect them to climb back to the top within 3 years. I have no idea what Ferry is going to do to try to take us to that level based on his recent moves. Right now he should be either selling high or buying low. All I see is a team with a couple of players and a bunch of guys that should be in the DL.

How do you think we'll fare against BOS in 3 years? When our #15 picks are trying to beat their #5 picks? How are we going to fare next year when Horf and Sap have to try to beat the best? Bluffing works in Poker, not in the NBA

The Millsap signing makes no sense; unless he's sold high.

[Guest]

You are right - you have no idea what Ferry is doing!

[Admin]

I just can't respond to this thread any more if some of you actually believe we have no assets. Smh

[tbhawksfan]

I'm asking for people to show me the plan and I get sarcasm. Nice.

I asked what teh plan is. In your great wisdom you must see what I don't. Please have the kindness to describe what you see and tell me how you think it's a viable plan.

Unless something happens to show me otherwize, I'm leaning towards Sap's signing as stupid. It made us not good enough to win and not bad enought to improve throught he draft.

If you see a plan that will compete to beat all the other teams and you can lay out how it will unfold, I'd love to see it. Specifically, why sign Sap to a 2 year deal, if not to trade him? After the deadline his value will decline due to his short contract. Trade him now or lose value. Keep him and then he's a highly paid 2-3 tier 30 year old. Is the plan to keep him and trade Horf? Play Horf at C?

Horford has made it clear multiple times tha t he wants to play PF. Wonder how he feft when the only valuable move (player-wise) that Ferry has made, plays PF.

Korver was not a good signing for the Hawks. He's basically just a 3 point contest guy. Not going to put us over the top in the next year or 2.

So we had a nothing team; Horf the only good player still under contract and we sign Sap (who plays the same position that Horf wants to play), Korver, Carroll and re-sign JT. Did anyone think this would win something? I think not. Was it going to improve our Draft spot? How do these signing transition into next season? Bad, Sap will be expiring and lost much of his trade value, we won't win enough to challenge the best and we won't lose enough to draft true potential.

Please argue with me. I'm really hoping that I'm missing something. I want the Hawks to be the best asap

[macdaddy]

I'm asking for people to show me the plan and I get sarcasm. Nice.

I asked what teh plan is. In your great wisdom you must see what I don't. Please have the kindness to describe what you see and tell me how you think it's a viable plan.

Unless something happens to show me otherwize, I'm leaning towards Sap's signing as stupid. It made us not good enough to win and not bad enought to improve throught he draft.

If you see a plan that will compete to beat all the other teams and you can lay out how it will unfold, I'd love to see it. Specifically, why sign Sap to a 2 year deal, if not to trade him? After the deadline his value will decline due to his short contract. Trade him now or lose value. Keep him and then he's a highly paid 2-3 tier 30 year old. Is the plan to keep him and trade Horf? Play Horf at C?

Horford has made it clear multiple times tha t he wants to play PF. Wonder how he feft when the only valuable move (player-wise) that Ferry has made, plays PF.

Korver was not a good signing for the Hawks. He's basically just a 3 point contest guy. Not going to put us over the top in the next year or 2.

So we had a nothing team; Horf the only good player still under contract and we sign Sap (who plays the same position that Horf wants to play), Korver, Carroll and re-sign JT. Did anyone think this would win something? I think not. Was it going to improve our Draft spot? How do these signing transition into next season? Bad, Sap will be expiring and lost much of his trade value, we won't win enough to challenge the best and we won't lose enough to draft true potential.

Please argue with me. I'm really hoping that I'm missing something. I want the Hawks to be the best asap

I haven't read this whole thread but i'd say you can't build something on a pile of crap. Everyone is worried about Horford being angry that he's still playing center. Think how he'd feel if our opening day lineup was Dennis/jenkins/Childress/Horf/zaza.

How Korver wasn't a good signing i have no idea. The dude is like top 5 in the league in points per shot. Basically up there with the superstars. Milsap is widely regarded as the best deal signed in the whole off season.

Ferry did what you should do which is find guys who play the way you want your team to play. Find the best talent you can at the time. We're talking a very limited number of choices in any given offseason.

Frankly before Horf went down we were threatening the elites in the East. There is only Indy and Miami and it's not like we were going to just lay down in the playoffs for them.

Anyway, the plan.

1. Be able to make a trade for an exceptional player on the move. In the past we've not had what was needed to pull this off. Now we can do it. Brand/Lou/milsap/korver could all in theory be moved plus we have a whole bunch of young guys and that can fill a deal. Usually players get moved for nothing much in return but filler and draft picks.

2. We have the right to swap first rounders. Sure we may not get a lottery pick this year but that doesn't mean we can't improve in the draft further down. And the difference between say the 18th and 13th pick may be huge.

3. The plan to build something and change our image has worked much faster than i think anyone imagined. We aren't getting blown out routinely, we aren't making sports center for bone headed play, Kenny Smith isn't diagraming how poorly we run the offense. In fact, its the exact opposite. The rest of the league is noticing that we're more than the sum of our parts. That we've lost our best player and are still winning.

For a variety of reasons tanking wasn't what the Hawks wanted or needed. So we've fielded a squad that is maxing its potential and still flexible enough finanically to improve going foward.

[BrazilianHawk]

Jesus.

GO ASK FERRY, MAN!

I, for one, am glad he's taken the reins and is building a very different team than we had before.

Got rid of JJ

Got rid of Marvin

Hired Bud

Re-signed KK

Let Birdbrain go

Signed Millsap

Signed Carroll

Re-signed Teague

Which of the moves above wouldn't you do? I can't see a single bad move in the list.

C'mon, man. Enjoy the ride.

Or you could phone Morey and see whether he wants to be our GM.

Man the tank squadron can be really annoying!

[Jody23]

I haven't read this whole thread but i'd say you can't build something on a pile of crap. Everyone is worried about Horford being angry that he's still playing center. Think how he'd feel if our opening day lineup was Dennis/jenkins/Childress/Horf/zaza. How Korver wasn't a good signing i have no idea. The dude is like top 5 in the league in points per shot. Basically up there with the superstars. Milsap is widely regarded as the best deal signed in the whole off season. Ferry did what you should do which is find guys who play the way you want your team to play. Find the best talent you can at the time. We're talking a very limited number of choices in any given offseason. Frankly before Horf went down we were threatening the elites in the East. There is only Indy and Miami and it's not like we were going to just lay down in the playoffs for them. Anyway, the plan. 1. Be able to make a trade for an exceptional player on the move. In the past we've not had what was needed to pull this off. Now we can do it. Brand/Lou/milsap/korver could all in theory be moved plus we have a whole bunch of young guys and that can fill a deal. Usually players get moved for nothing much in return but filler and draft picks. 2. We have the right to swap first rounders. Sure we may not get a lottery pick this year but that doesn't mean we can't improve in the draft further down. And the difference between say the 18th and 13th pick may be huge.3. The plan to build something and change our image has worked much faster than i think anyone imagined. We aren't getting blown out routinely, we aren't making sports center for bone headed play, Kenny Smith isn't diagraming how poorly we run the offense. In fact, its the exact opposite. The rest of the league is noticing that we're more than the sum of our parts. That we've lost our best player and are still winning. For a variety of reasons tanking wasn't what the Hawks wanted or needed. So we've fielded a squad that is maxing its potential and still flexible enough finanically to improve going foward.

I don't totally disagree with everything you said, but the Hawks were never threatning the Heat or the Pacers this year at all.