If one star would come to Atlanta then......

[Admin]

That's a problem. If we can't win next season, those guys are going on 30 with Sap needing to be re-upped. I'm not sure that's the way to go to build our perennial championship contender.

Pierce (30), Garnett (31) and Allen (32) were 30 or older when they won their championship and they stayed competitive for 5 years after that.

[Sothron]

Don't worry. I'll try to remember to edit it out until I find a better solution. Wouldn't want to it to be a distraction.

It is appreciated not just from me but for others as well.

Also, I agree with you that we should trade Millsap at the trade deadline after he hopefully makes the All Star team. He won't have any higher value than between this trade deadline and the offseason.

[tbhawksfan]

Pierce (30), Garnett (31) and Allen (32) were 30 or older when they won their championship and they stayed competitive for 5 years after that.

Maybe we should trade Horf, Sap and Korver for Pierce (30), Garnett (31) and Allen (32). Might feel better about our chances. Naw, still rather go the youth route.

[Admin]

Maybe we should trade Horf, Sap and Korver for Pierce (30), Garnett (31) and Allen (32). Might feel better about our chances. Naw, still rather go the youth route.

Umm what?

[Guest]

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

They are now 36,37 and 38 years old.

[Admin]

It is appreciated not just from me but for others as well. Also, I agree with you that we should trade Millsap at the trade deadline after he hopefully makes the All Star team. He won't have any higher value than between this trade deadline and the offseason.

Or maybe he makes the next 3 all star games while on his next 2 year contract with the Hawks we trade him that first season. He'll basically be at the same point contract wise but coming off multiple all star appearances, which should increase his value. Or maybe we just keep him cause he's a darn good player and there's no guarantee any young guy we trade for will ever reach his level.

[Guest]

I've had enough of this topic - done!

[Admin]

I've had enough of this topic - done!

[Guest]

Nice, very nice!

[Guest]

It took me awhile - but I realized this was all about the 'T' word.I don't know how I got sucked in I'm usually on top of my game.

[tbhawksfan]

Let me make it easy. Pierce, Garnett and Allen at the age you cited we're MUCH better players than any three we have. To say that those 3 did it at that age as to imply that that is some kind of proof that Horf / Millsap and player X (because we don't even have a third player good enough to place in the example) can also do it is apples and oranges. I could care less that you agree with my perspectives; to each his/her own. It's called tolerance and respect. Despite this invigorating and instructive discussion, I maintain that we need to make bigger moves than to bring in just enough talent to be mediocre, but far from enough to be truly competitive. The win against the Heat is a prime example: some here are so happy about the win and read so much into it. Are they forgetting about the big, fat EGG laid in London? Are they forgetting about our record? I have no problem with other people's complacency (accepting, even taking pride in mediocrity). When I want to make progress, I don't spend much time on what's good; like winning one game or 40. I attack the problems. No complacency. The problem with the Hawks it that we don't have the talent to get where I want us to go.. I'll spend my time looking for solutions to that problem. If others want to cheer for their team and accept small victories...OK, but I won't join you. If they choose to attack anyone that doesn't conform to their perspective.......to be continued

[tbhawksfan]

I just went through the entire " Hawks Salary Situation as of 7/23/13 (updated Korver salary)" thread pinned and basically saw that nearly everyone was of the opinion that Ferry would add one more quality player to the team. Seems most were of mind that we wouldn't win with the present roster. Ferry didn't and we are one of the few teams under cap and we are mediocre. I guess some fans choose to accept that and cheer on the team while shooting down any negativity. I don't see people proposing solutions or even critiquing as being negative: especially if their intent is to produce a better team.

[nathan2331]

Let me make it easy. Pierce, Garnett and Allen at the age you cited we're MUCH better players than any three we have. To say that those 3 did it at that age as to imply that that is some kind of proof that Horf / Millsap and player X (because we don't even have a third player good enough to place in the example) can also do it is apples and oranges. I could care less that you agree with my perspectives; to each his/her own. It's called tolerance and respect. Despite this invigorating and instructive discussion, I maintain that we need to make bigger moves than to bring in just enough talent to be mediocre, but far from enough to be truly competitive. The win against the Heat is a prime example: some here are so happy about the win and read so much into it. Are they forgetting about the big, fat EGG laid in London? Are they forgetting about our record? I have no problem with other people's complacency (accepting, even taking pride in mediocrity). When I want to make progress, I don't spend much time on what's good; like winning one game or 40. I attack the problems. No complacency. The problem with the Hawks it that we don't have the talent to get where I want us to go.. I'll spend my time looking for solutions to that problem. If others want to cheer for their team and accept small victories...OK, but I won't join you. If they choose to attack anyone that doesn't conform to their perspective.......to be continued

I think you also underestimate the window of opportunity we have. In the next 3 years I still think we will be the 3rd seed and possibly the 2nd if Lebron leaves Miami or Wade never recovers. The reason being every team the east that has tanked will take a while to recover (not to mention some teams probably won't put an emphasis on player development). Additionally there are other teams who are either down trending or like the Raptors and don't have the talent to compete with us yet. I hope that made a little sense.While I understand you want us to make power moves we don't know when they're available. There hasn't been a rumored trade yet where I felt Ferry should pull the trigger.

[tbhawksfan]

I think you also underestimate the window of opportunity we have. In the next 3 years I still think we will be the 3rd seed and possibly the 2nd if Lebron leaves Miami or Wade never recovers. The reason being every team the east that has tanked will take a while to recover (not to mention some teams probably won't put an emphasis on player development). Additionally there are other teams who are either down trending or like the Raptors and don't have the talent to compete with us yet. I hope that made a little sense.While I understand you want us to make power moves we don't know when they're available. There hasn't been a rumored trade yet where I felt Ferry should pull the trigger.

I might be, but I would prefer us to control our own destiny and build a winner. Counting on the other teams to suck so bad that we move up is a passive plan. Even though I agree with you that the Hawks should remain a 3-4 seed next year if we stay the course; I don't think this will result in us winning a title. And I'm in no way content with a 3-4 seed and a play off exit. My position is; if we can't beat the best next season on the present course, than we need to change course. Every one thinks that Millsap was a good signing, because Ferry was able to sign him to a very reasonable contract. But almost all of these people think that he was signed to trade because of the short-term contract and the Hawks current situation. While there haven't been any interesting Hawks trades discussed, other teams have made trades to put themselves in a position that they deem better. If we don't have the team we need, why aren't we more aggressive in getting in on these trades? I completely believe that the players, Bud and Ferry want to win and are willing to do what it takes. We got rid of the complacent players and ego-maniacs. What I'm not sure about is the ASG. Why didn't Ferry fully exploit his off-season moves if we were setting up to win now? Why did he sign Sap to a 2 year deal if the thinking was short-term? If the goal is to progressively assemble a winner over a longer period of time, then we need to optimize the 3-6 year window. You can't do both at once. The dynamics of building a win now team are very different than those of longer term building. The way I'm reading the move so far is, put out a pretty good team to maintain revenue at the cost of long-term excellence.

[NBASupes]

We need Lebron.

[nathan2331]

We need Lebron.

Everyone needs Lebron

[LamarHampton]

We need Lebron.

And Melo, Rondo, Chandler, Kobe, Love, Durant, Dwight, Harden, Dirk, Curry, & Paul.If Ferry would just get off his lazy a$$ ...

[Wretch]

Part of the problem is that people want to look at this team or that team and say, "Look, they had a star and they didn't win/do anything!" The truth is that you need a complete team to win big, but you don't have a complete team without a go to guy, his sidekick (1-2 punch), a deep supporting cast, and the right coach. You have to check all of that stuff off the list if you want to even THINK about contending.

We can argue until the cows come home about which check box is most important...but IMO having that go to guy/star is by far the catalyst to contention. You have to have it. You might not win with a superstar/go to guy, but surely you will tread the middle of the pack until you get one.

...and man, I'm just shaking my head at the welfare mentality around here. People talk about LeBron and Carmelo and Dirk like they're they belong to these elite social clubs and Atlanta is not fit to host that kind of clientele. We're just dreaming... So sick of that mentality. What's in Oklahoma or Dallas that's so much more special than Atlanta? Problem is, this team just settles year after year...and the fan base settles year after year. So our expectations are, "build a competitive team, we'll be fine, make the playoffs, we don't need a star and they don't really matter anyway."

...

Also... Pacers...Pacers.... Ok, yes the Pacers built a good team without constantly panning for gold in the lottery. They made some smart picks in the middle of the 1st round and some good trades...etc. etc. I don't want to start the argument about who is more vital between Hibbert/George...because we'll start spewing per's, winshares, and all sorts of other information and drag this conversation all the way to 30 pages. So, for the sake of argument, let's just let all things be equal with the pacers. Just as they are clearly not the same team without Hibbert, they are not the same team without George either.

So yes, we could be like the Pacers...scratching around in the middle of the 1st round for projects, being shrewd in trades, and developing players. That may get us Hibbert and anything else they've got. You still need a lottery pick to get George and you need to be lucky enough for a player of that caliber to fall late...and he has to blossom into a star. Which brings us back to square one.

People..........................one way or another, we are going to have to accept the fact that we HAVE TO get a star into ATL. Period.

Edited January 22, 2014 by WretchedDamnCrow

[Admin]

People..........................one way or another, we are going to have to accept the fact that we HAVE TO get a star into ATL. Period.

Who's denying that?

[Ebert]

If one star would come to Atlanta then...

I would probably wake up.