If one star would come to Atlanta then......

[Jody23]

"People..........................one way or another, we are going to have to accept the fact that we HAVE TO get a star into ATL. Period."I can't knock anything you said. The one person that we all hope realizes this is Ferry. I think he does, although I think it's going to be VERY difficult to acquire a star (and legit sidekick) with the avenue he's taking. I could be wrong, but I believe he's looking for another James Harden situation to take advantage of.

Edited January 22, 2014 by Jody23

[Wretch]

Who's denying that?

Oh take your pick man... People imply it with their comments and I've listened to it for YEARS.

Some people will flat out say we don't need a star. They'll tout defense, coaching, supporting players...anything and everything is necessary but having a "go to" player.

Some people downplay the significance of a star...

"Oh, look at how far Cleveland got with their star!"

"Oh, the Hawks had a star here for years and they never supported him...and look how far THEY got!"

"Oh, look at all those STARS in Brooklyn!"

Some people go so far as to deny the existence of stars altogether... "Oh, there's really only 4 or 5 stars in the NBA - you're talking about LeBron, Chris Paul, Carmelo, Durant, & maybe Dwight Howard."

Some people lump the star in as just an individual COG in in the greater TEAM machine. "[Contender X] has a complete team and that's what you need to win. [superstar X] is just one guy...he's not the whole team. You need a complete team and that's what Danny Ferry is building."

Some people think all you need is a bunch of really good 3rd and 4th tier players - in this scenario we are always looking for one of the following mystery men that will put us on par with a contender:

[*]a playmaking SG

[*]a serviceable big man (my personal favorite)

[*]a defensive SF that can score (I think this is the current FoTM)

[*]a quality point guard

I could go on and on, but you can read it for yourself in this thread and all throughout the history of the board. What really gets me though is how some of you guys think that we can either a) piecemeal a contender together without a true star or b) tip toe around the draft and free agency and have a Parker or Ginobili quality player land in our lap..."because Danny Ferry worked for the Spurs and that's what happened to them!"

Meanwhile, we can't offer any criticism of the current regime because "Rome wasn't built in a day!" and "He's BUILDING something the right way here."

And people argue that everything is fine because there is this magical promised land that we're building and it will reveal itself on a magical day in the future....and I'm just sitting here looking at Horford and Millsap on the short end of their contracts wondering if people are really counting on them being a part of this beautiful basketball wonderland the Hawks are headed to.

Truth is, we need a star in the worst way. I have my doubts we're going to get it by...whatever this is Danny Ferry is doing. I'll eat a double dose of crow if we land a marquee player in free agency and a triple dose if we land one in the draft outside of the lottery. As it were, we're either hanging onto the fading music of the Brooklyn Shuffle...or running on the same ol' competitive treadmill.

"People..........................one way or another, we are going to have to accept the fact that we HAVE TO get a star into ATL. Period."

I can't knock anything you said. The one person that we all hope realizes this is Ferry. I think he does, although I think it's going to be VERY difficult to acquire a star (and legit sidekick) with the avenue he's taking. I could be wrong, but I believe he's looking for another James Harden situation to take advantage of.

That is exactly my thinking.

*edited for Wretchfoolery-fast-typing-fat-finger-notpayingattentioness....

Edited January 22, 2014 by WretchedDamnCrow

[HawkItus]

Star, blah, blah, blah, star, blah, blah.......

It gets old. For every star success story you can point to a star failure. A star is not the end all be all. We need one, but how we go about it is up to debate. The draft is viable, so is free agency. Player development and trade are also a good direction. Now what if, I know, but just what if, Danny Ferry is like a good investor. He is not going all in on any of these. He will align himself to make a move into drafting a target if he sees the opportunity. He is also setting himself up to make the trade or FA splash if the opportunity presents itself. But, in reality he is hedging his bets against the only true thing he can control. Developing the talent on this team and supporting that development with a rock solid culture of winning. Now if that is what he is doing and that is wrong then I don't care about right. Because the teams that I see with staying power have the first three intermittently. But, that last one.......the culture, that is a lasting formula.

[Wretch]

I rest my case.

[Wretch]

(Oh...and let's hear all those "non-star" success stories!)

*crickets*

[HawkItus]

(Oh...and let's hear all those "non-star" success stories!)

*crickets*

Don't be an @ss. Just because I don't 100% share in the superstar fetish doesn't mean I'm against it. I clearly stated in the last post and earlier ones I'm all for getting a star. But, tanking I just don't agree with. I see Cleveland and the Pelicans. I see the Clippers and Wolves. The drafting of the next great blah doesn't promise anything more than what we have now. How wretched it must be to only see things through the keyhole you choose to peep and not think there are other valid viewpoints.

[Wretch]

Don't be an @ss. Just because I don't 100% share in the superstar fetish doesn't mean I'm against it. I clearly stated in the last post and earlier ones I'm all for getting a star. But, tanking I just don't agree with. I see Cleveland and the Pelicans. I see the Clippers and Wolves. The drafting of the next great blah doesn't promise anything more than what we have now. How wretched it must be to only see things through the keyhole you choose to peep and not think there are other valid viewpoints.

Didn't say anything about tanking.

Did ask you to provide a non-superstar success story.

[JTB]

Oh take your pick man... People imply it with their comments and I've listened to it for YEARS.

Some people will flat out say we don't need a star. They'll tout defense, coaching, supporting players...anything and everything is necessary but having a "go to" player.

Some people downplay the significance of a star...

"Oh, look at how far Cleveland got with their star!"

"Oh, the Hawks had a star here for years and they never supported him...and look how far THEY got!"

"Oh, look at all those STARS in Brooklyn!"

Some people go so far as to deny the existence of stars altogether... "Oh, there's really only 4 or 5 stars in the NBA - you're talking about LeBron, Chris Paul, Carmelo, Durant, & maybe Dwight Howard."

Some people lump the star in as just an individual COG in in the greater TEAM machine. "[Contender X] has a complete team and that's what you need to win. [superstar X] is just one guy...he's not the whole team. You need a complete team and that's what Danny Ferry is building."

Some people think all you need is a bunch of really good 3rd and 4th tier players - in this scenario we are always looking for one of the following mystery men that will put us on par with a contender:

[*]a playmaking SG

[*]a serviceable big man (my personal favorite)

[*]a defensive SF that can score (I think this is the current FoTM)

[*]a quality point guard

I could go on and on, but you can read it for yourself in this thread and all throughout the history of the board. What really gets me though is how some of you guys think that we can either a) piecemeal a contender together without a true star or b) tip toe around the draft and free agency and have a Parker or Ginobili quality player land in our lap..."because Danny Ferry worked for the Spurs and that's what happened to them!"

Meanwhile, we can't offer any criticism of the current regime because "Rome wasn't built in a day!" and "He's BUILDING something the right way here."

And people argue that everything is fine because there is this magical promised land that we're building and it will reveal itself on a magical day in the future....and I'm just sitting here looking at Horford and Millsap on the short end of their contracts wondering if people are really counting on them being a part of this beautiful basketball wonderland the Hawks are headed to.

Truth is, we need a star in the worst way. I have my doubts we're going to get it by...whatever this is Danny Ferry is doing. I'll eat a double dose of crow if we land a marquee player in free agency and a triple dose if we land one in the draft outside of the lottery. As it were, we're either hanging onto the fading music of the Brooklyn Shuffle...or running on the same ol' competitive treadmill.

That is exactly my thinking.

*edited for Wretchfoolery-fast-typing-fat-finger-notpayingattentioness....

I can agree with what your saying but with what your saying you are either all for this....

1. Trade away all quality players (horford, sap, Korver, etc.) to get a star that has atleast 2 years left on his contract. So that in the off season ferry can work his magic and try to put quality players around him.

Or for this....

2. Trade away all quality players for a very high draft pick...which is really like a rebuild type of thing but for this franchise it's worth it.

What we want to happen is this.....

-get a quality center like asik..move horford down to PF....sap can play major minutes at both SF and pf ....hope Teague becomes a star like player with all this talent around him or hope Brooklyn loses and we get their high draft pick.

But the above isn't possible or has a very short window with Teague and Brooklyn! But let me put some excitement into this.....

WHAT CAN HAPPEN FOR OUR HAWKS IS THIS....

Ferry should go ahead and do all he can to get asik while holding back sap and horford. So I'm saying package anybody else to bring asik or some other true center but leave sap and horford out of it. Next find a new PG!....that should be easy to do, this is a point guard driven league I'm sure finding a quality pg will be ferrys easiest move. Now with the draft pick because it's so deep this year draft a sg or SF....this doesn't make us instant contenders but with a front court of sap,horford, asik and a backcourt of a new pg which should be easy to find and a new sg or SF that we draft we have a lot of opportunity to actually grow and get better! Right now with this team we are just at a stopping point and there is no get better or improve we are what we are.

[Admin]

Don't be an @ss. Just because I don't 100% share in the superstar fetish doesn't mean I'm against it. I clearly stated in the last post and earlier ones I'm all for getting a star. But, tanking I just don't agree with. I see Cleveland and the Pelicans. I see the Clippers and Wolves. The drafting of the next great blah doesn't promise anything more than what we have now. How wretched it must be to only see things through the keyhole you choose to peep and not think there are other valid viewpoints.

I agree with this as I don't believe in tanking either, at least not for us. If we had a crappy team with players who aren't borderline All-Star types at 3 positions then I'd be singing a different tune. I just don't believe in throwing away what we've got and praying the young guys we draft will be any better.

[Admin]

Didn't say anything about tanking.

Did ask you to provide a non-superstar success story.

You know full well that the only one would be the Big Ben Pistons. If the Grizzlies can get their act together they'd be another one. If the Spurs keep winning with Duncan and Parker and Manu in their 40's then they'd be another.

[Admin]

I rest my case.

I'm all for having a superstar, just not willing to throw away all of our good players for the remote chance that one becomes who scouts think he'll be.

[HawkItus]

You know full well that the only one would be the Big Ben Pistons. If the Grizzlies can get their act together they'd be another one. If the Spurs keep winning with Duncan and Parker and Manu in their 40's then they'd be another.

You could make an argument for the Celtics. Without each other none of those guys sniffed the finals. I would counter with out of all the "Super Star" scenarios only Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, and DWADE have done it with their original team. And outside of Duncan and Dirk it has not been done without another Super Star being on the roster.

[Sothron]

I talked with one of my old sources today and he shared a nugget: There is in fact one superstar that Ferry is sitting on if the team he is on now decides that they can't resign him. If a trade happened it would be in the offseason after that team tried to talk him into staying.

That guy is one of my favorite players. I think it would probably split the board in half if we got him because I know some here don't consider him a superstar. But if we could somehow get him and get him to stay here...wow. I'd be so happy I would even break my vow to go pay to see the Hawks and give A$G money again.

[Admin]

You could make an argument for the Celtics. Without each other none of those guys sniffed the finals. I would counter with out of all the "Super Star" scenarios only Duncan, Kobe, Dirk, and DWADE have done it with their original team. And outside of Duncan and Dirk it has not been done without another Super Star being on the roster.

Yeah you definitely don't win it with just one superstar. You've got to have some damned good players around him to have a shot. Not even Lebron could do it and he's the best in the league.

[Wretch]

I'm all for having a superstar, just not willing to throw away all of our good players for the remote chance that one becomes who scouts think he'll be.

I don't want to throw away anything. I want to rebuild and I don't think you can do it EXCLUSIVELY with mid-late 1st round draft picks. Teams just don't do it that way. Moreover, just as you know, teams don't contend with "borderline all star" players...especially not with your better guys being on the short end of their deals. At best, this is a wait and see game...I certainly don't have the warm fuzzy bright future outlook you guys have.

[Admin]

I don't want to throw away anything. I want to rebuild and I don't think you can do it EXCLUSIVELY with mid-late 1st round draft picks. Teams just don't do it that way. Moreover, just as you know, teams don't contend with "borderline all star" players...especially not with your better guys being on the short end of their deals. At best, this is a wait and see game...I certainly don't have the warm fuzzy bright future outlook you guys have.

You pro tank guys want to flip our borderline All Stars for future 1sts and I think that's a horrible idea. If you want a superstar then you trade for one with our borderline All Stars. There's absolutely nothing that could convince me to swap them for future firsts and to tank this thing.

I talked with one of my old sources today and he shared a nugget: There is in fact one superstar that Ferry is sitting on if the team he is on now decides that they can't resign him. If a trade happened it would be in the offseason after that team tried to talk him into staying.

That guy is one of my favorite players. I think it would probably split the board in half if we got him because I know some here don't consider him a superstar. But if we could somehow get him and get him to stay here...wow. I'd be so happy I would even break my vow to go pay to see the Hawks and give A$G money again.

Hmmm... I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about and I'd certainly be happy about it.

[Wretch]

Yeah you definitely don't win it with just one superstar. You've got to have some damned good players around him to have a shot. Not even Lebron could do it and he's the best in the league.

That's another thing people do...they assume that because you say that a superstar is vital and the key to success, that you also believe the superstar is the be all/end all.

...and I'm sitting here a living contradiction in that those kinds of players are not my favorite. I love role players. Specifically, big defensive, brutish PF's. I just know what's going to happen in the big games (and big possessions) when you need a bucket.

[Wretch]

You pro tank guys want to flip our borderline All Stars for future 1sts and I think that's a horrible idea. If you want a superstar then you trade for one with our borderline All Stars. There's absolutely nothing that could convince me to swap them for future firsts and to tank this thing.

Hmmm... I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about and I'd certainly be happy about it.

Dolfan....what is going to happen with Horford in 2 years. Just riddle me that Batman.

[Sothron]

I honestly don't know why we're still talking about tanking. There is no way Ferry tanks. None. He'll keep us a playoff team with a good brand of basketball in the hopes he could either sign a star as a FA or trade for one and convince them to stay here as a building block.

[Admin]

Dolfan....what is going to happen with Horford in 2 years. Just riddle me that Batman.

How would I know? I'm not opposed to trading him, but I'm not trading him for a future 1st and praying that guy doesn't become the next Marvin, Sheldon, Childress or Law.