ATL Hawks all time best GM Danny Ferry

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I agree with you Cyde. I started this thread and took the position that I did to bait out a discussion. But, we have only had one good GM and he didn't do that much even with Nique. The reason that I'm calling out Ferry and the Hawks is because I think he's taking the middle road; not rebuilding and not spending to bring in the best possible team. I also don't like the "it's only two years argument". Every year is monumental and I absolutely think Ferry took the easy path last off-season. No risks, no bold move, just a lateral move that has us at a mediocre status quo.

I do like the picks, if we're rebuilding. If not, then to use two mid firsts on future potential makes no sense.

EXACTLY!!

I agree 100%. He's definitely taking the middle road, and always using the words "competing" to try to cover up what he's doing. Hell, we've "competed" for the past 6 years. Competing wasn't the issue. Getting to that next level is the issue.

God knows I'm not in the "tank crew". I was one of the ones that wanted to use that cap space to build the best team possible. But when I saw that the first move we did, was to sign Korver to that long contract, I said "Oh Lord . . WTF is this?" That CAN'T be your first free agent signing, when you have 30+ million in cap space. It just can't.

And when Bebe wasn't brought to the team, it meant that not only was he not ready, he wouldn't be developed here ( at least in the D-League ), which also makes no sense.

Although I'm against tanking, if we DID decide to "tank", and simply played a lot of young guys, I could tolerate the losing and/or mediocrity. But it's like Ferry and Bud are trying to play like how the Spurs played whenever they rested Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli. Well, the difference is that we don't have those 3 to put right back into the lineup after a few games of rest. We actually need to develop people.

So here's what we have here.

- We're trying to win games, despite Ferry not going out to assemble the best squad possible

.

- Our young guys aren't being developed at all, because one is stuck on the bench, and one is overseas

- We're not going to have enough cap space this summer to make a significant splash for a player, which means more contracts to mid-level type players

- And we're not getting a 1st round pick that will be in the lottery

And when you combine all of this, to what came out in that Forbes article about the Hawks finances, I'm starting to believe that the ACTUAL PLAN, is to assemble a team that will consistently stay below salary cap level, and simply make the playoffs with that squad, regardless of the talent on the team.

Every year is monumental and I absolutely think Ferry took the easy path last off-season. No risks, no bold move, just a lateral move that has us at a mediocre status quo.

Couldn't agree more man. People think selling off JJ was a "bold move". There's nothing "bold" about selling a decent player for pieces of garbage, just to save money.

[Guest]

Why don't you list the bold risky move you think Ferry should have made for this discusion?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Why don't you list the bold risky move you think Ferry should have made for this discusion?

I'll take a crack at this.

How about NOT chasing after Dwight Howard ( especially after Chris Paul said that he'd re-sign with the Clippers ), and go instead after Al Jefferson and Andre Iguodala?

How about holding onto JJ the year before, and trying to get the BEST possible deal out of it, instead of coming right in and trading JJ off for useless players?

How about making a commitment to target an upgrade at PG or C, which we've needed for 1,000 years now, so that we could move Horford to PF.

How about actually trading the draft picks ( Bebe and Dennis ) for a player that could help us right now ( if they had no intentions on "tanking" )?

Ferry had options. He's simply playing everything safe. I mean, how disasterous would it had been if Josh actually ACCEPTED the 3 yr - 45 million extension that FERRY offered him before last season? Ferry was convinced that JOSH was his guy, not Horford.

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2013/4/14/4223096/josh-smith-nba-free-agency-atlanta-hawks

[tbhawksfan]

I'll take a crack at this.

How about NOT chasing after Dwight Howard ( especially after Chris Paul said that he'd re-sign with the Clippers ), and go instead after Al Jefferson and Andre Iguodala?

How about holding onto JJ the year before, and trying to get the BEST possible deal out of it, instead of coming right in and trading JJ off for useless players?

How about making a commitment to target an upgrade at PG or C, which we've needed for 1,000 years now, so that we could move Horford to PF.

How about actually trading the draft picks ( Bebe and Dennis ) for a player that could help us right now ( if they had no intentions on "tanking" )?

Ferry had options. He's simply playing everything safe. I mean, how disasterous would it had been if Josh actually ACCEPTED the 3 yr - 45 million extension that FERRY offered him before last season? Ferry was convinced that JOSH was his guy, not Horford.

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2013/4/14/4223096/josh-smith-nba-free-agency-atlanta-hawks

My big Hawksquawk question is: Why is it that so many here refuse to see this? I could cite a couple of potential reasons, but they wouldn't like it.

[Guest]

I'll take a crack at this. How about NOT chasing after Dwight Howard ( especially after Chris Paul said that he'd re-sign with the Clippers ), and go instead after Al Jefferson and Andre Iguodala? How about holding onto JJ the year before, and trying to get the BEST possible deal out of it, instead of coming right in and trading JJ off for useless players? How about making a commitment to target an upgrade at PG or C, which we've needed for 1,000 years now, so that we could move Horford to PF. How about actually trading the draft picks ( Bebe and Dennis ) for a player that could help us right now ( if they had no intentions on "tanking" )? Ferry had options. He's simply playing everything safe. I mean, how disasterous would it had been if Josh actually ACCEPTED the 3 yr - 45 million extension that FERRY offered him before last season? Ferry was convinced that JOSH was his guy, not Horford. http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2013/4/14/4223096/josh-smith-nba-free-agency-atlanta-hawks

If Ferry had not at least met with Dwight he would have been killed by the other side of this argument. If past reports are to believed Iggy only and eyes got GSW. Jefferson, meh.Why are you bringing JJ into this years convo - let that go.How do you not know if he attempted to trade the picks - there has to be another willing trade partner. I think Jody23 mentioned Frrry trying to trade up in previous drafts but with only Al, JJ and an injured Lou it made it difficult to offer a player and pick to move up.I'm glad Josh declined his extension (if only for my sanity). Signing Josh then trading him could have been an option. You saw the garbage the Bucks were offering for Josh's expiring (we would not have gotten Sap if we had taken the Bucks deal).

[turnermx]

With JJ contract there was no way in hell we could even entertain the thought of signing Dwight and/or Chris. I disagree with the ASG being cheap strategy and I feel that if a max worthy player were to knock on our door ASG would sign that player. Dwight didn't wan to come to ATL why must we keep repeating that? And I still think Paul would have signed in ATL were it not for the BS move by the celts allowing rivers to go there and coach .. I also don't think JJ was worth his contract at all. We are paying less to Horford and sap this year than we would have had to pay joe alone not good value unless JJ can play like a superstar an entire season which he has never done.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheNorthCydeRises]

If Ferry had not at least met with Dwight he would have been killed by the other side of this argument. If past reports are to believed Iggy only and eyes got GSW. Jefferson, meh.Why are you bringing JJ into this years convo - let that go.How do you not know if he attempted to trade the picks - there has to be another willing trade partner. I think Jody23 mentioned Frrry trying to trade up in previous drafts but with only Al, JJ and an injured Lou it made it difficult to offer a player and pick to move up.I'm glad Josh declined his extension (if only for my sanity). Signing Josh then trading him could have been an option. You saw the garbage the Bucks were offering for Josh's expiring (we would not have gotten Sap if we had taken the Bucks deal).

JayBird . . I think the difference between those of us who criticize Ferry, and those of you who support him, is that I believe the supporters believe that Ferry has done the best job he can possibly do up until this point. That every move he's made so far as been the right move.

Meanwhile, the critics say that he could've done something different, or even more significant. That's when the supporters shoot down any and every scenario that contradicts what Ferry has done so far.

I think the Bucks offered that garbage for Josh, because they saw Ferry flat out ACCEPT garbage for JJ.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

With JJ contract there was no way in hell we could even entertain the thought of signing Dwight and/or Chris. I disagree with the ASG being cheap strategy and I feel that if a max worthy player were to knock on our door ASG would sign that player. Dwight didn't wan to come to ATL why must we keep repeating that? And I still think Paul would have signed in ATL were it not for the BS move by the celts allowing rivers to go there and coach .. I also don't think JJ was worth his contract at all. We are paying less to Horford and sap this year than we would have had to pay joe alone not good value unless JJ can play like a superstar an entire season which he has never done.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

- Correct. With JJ still here, there's no way we could make a play for Dwight or Chris Paul. Which is why you try to flip JJ for either a disgruntled "star" level player on another team, or for a team that actually wants JJ, and are willing to give us a few useful assets for him. My thing is that Ferry didn't even legitimately try to get the best deal. He simply took the deal to get him out of here. That's fine. But when you do that, you get what you get..

- A max player isn't going to knock on the door of the ASG . . . and that's kind of the overall point in going after someone else. Dwight wasn't going to say . . . "Ooooooo . . they got Danny Ferry as GM. Let me go play for him, because he's a GM with multiple championships."

- And Chris Paul DEFINITELY was never coming here. The only possibility was if he came with Dwight. But without Dwight, there was no shot in him coming. Both of those guys simply played us for better leverage on contracts, and on the places they wanted to go.

- The fact isn't if JJ could live up to his contract. We know he couldn't. But we could've gotten more value from trading him, than what we received. All we've received up to this point, is cap space, and some pipe dream of Brooklyn being a non-playoff team, so that we can swap picks with them.

[MaceCase]

My big Hawksquawk question is: Why is it that so many here refuse to see this? I could cite a couple of potential reasons, but they wouldn't like it.

Because what you quoted is entirely wishy washy scenarios with holes in them the size of the Grand Canyon?Eschew franchise talent in favor of a career loser and tertiary wing that forced his way to his preferred destination? Burn 26 million too while at it? No, this isn't the cure for mediocrity at all.Hold onto a luxury tax first round exit core....and still pretend that that still wasn't the best deal for Joe? Real risky move there that totally blows up the first point because no free agents would be there if Hawks are capped out.Target this mythical upgrade at PG and C because they are both so readily available and easy to acquire thus why every team has done so but the Hawks.Trading draft picks for salaried players.....because the Hawks weren't in a situation where only Horford, Louis, Jenkins and Scott were the remaining non-expiring deals on the roster. Ferry should have bent the CBA to either trade an already expired deal or utilized cap space that wasn't determined until 2 weeks later to acquire this player. And then oh yes, how much of a better value would Joe of been had he accepted the 4 year 60 million extension that Sund offered him rather than the 6 year 123 million albatross? What? You mean to tell me that soon to be free agents who believe themselves to be max contract worthy rarely ever turn down an extension that pays them less money and less years?

[Guest]

JayBird . . I think the difference between those of us who criticize Ferry, and those of you who support him, is that I believe the supporters believe that Ferry has done the best job he can possibly do up until this point. That every move he's made so far as been the right move. Meanwhile, the critics say that he could've done something different, or even more significant. That's when the supporters shoot down any and every scenario that contradicts what Ferry has done so far. I think the Bucks offered that garbage for Josh, because they saw Ferry flat out ACCEPT garbage for JJ.

The only thing I've congratulated Ferry on was getting rid of JJ - he could have gotten a bag of feathers for him and I would have been happy (and I was a JJ fan when he was here). No the Bucks offered what they did because Josh was expiring with no assurances that he would resign with them. Ferry declined because of the lengths of those contracts and no pick was included.

[tbhawksfan]

Ferry neither brought in a team team with a chance to win nor an opportunity to improve through the draft. Here's a riddle for you; why sign Korver to a high 4 year deal and Sap to a low 2 year deal. Korver isn't going to take you anywhere and Sap must have said OK, but only 2 years. If Sap was such a good get, why 2 years? Because our best FA signing in years would have preferred to go to a better franchise and signed the short deal to be able to try again while still in his prime.

Good teams that snag good players DON'T sign them to 2 year deals.

Worst things is, even if he moves Sap now, it's too late to move us into the top 6 picks where top talent is.

I see this season as a total waste. No progress record wize and no moves to set us up for future success. Blahhhhh

[Guest]

- Correct. With JJ still here, there's no way we could make a play for Dwight or Chris Paul. Which is why you try to flip JJ for either a disgruntled "star" level player on another team, or for a team that actually wants JJ, and are willing to give us a few useful assets for him. My thing is that Ferry didn't even legitimately try to get the best deal. He simply took the deal to get him out of here. That's fine. But when you do that, you get what you get.. - A max player isn't going to knock on the door of the ASG . . . and that's kind of the overall point in going after someone else. Dwight wasn't going to say . . . "Ooooooo . . they got Danny Ferry as GM. Let me go play for him, because he's a GM with multiple championships." - And Chris Paul DEFINITELY was never coming here. The only possibility was if he came with Dwight. But without Dwight, there was no shot in him coming. Both of those guys simply played us for better leverage on contracts, and on the places they wanted to go. - The fact isn't if JJ could live up to his contract. We know he couldn't. But we could've gotten more value from trading him, than what we received. All we've received up to this point, is cap space, and some pipe dream of Brooklyn being a non-playoff team, so that we can swap picks with them.

There was no OTHER team interested in JJ or could afford him at that salary. Only the Nets who don't mind paying the trillion dollar luxury tax!And with that - I'm off this merry-go-round! Again. Edited January 25, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[Jody23]

If Ferry had not at least met with Dwight he would have been killed by the other side of this argument. If past reports are to believed Iggy only and eyes got GSW. Jefferson, meh.Why are you bringing JJ into this years convo - let that go.How do you not know if he attempted to trade the picks - there has to be another willing trade partner. I think Jody23 mentioned Frrry trying to trade up in previous drafts but with only Al, JJ and an injured Lou it made it difficult to offer a player and pick to move up.I'm glad Josh declined his extension (if only for my sanity). Signing Josh then trading him could have been an option. You saw the garbage the Bucks were offering for Josh's expiring (we would not have gotten Sap if we had taken the Bucks deal).

With regard to the attempts to trade into the lottery from the middle/end of the first round, the Hawks were doing that before Ferry got here. When he came aboard, he started to follow suit, but was also rebuffed. I think there were a couple of years where they tried to get top 3 or 5 picks for the likes of Josh and Marvin. By no means do I blame the Hawks for trying. We just made the mistake of over valuing certain players and as a result, hanging on to them too long.

[Guest]

With regard to the attempts to trade into the lottery from the middle/end of the first round, the Hawks were doing that before Ferry got here. When he came aboard, he started to follow suit, but was also rebuffed. I think there were a couple of years where they tried to get top 3 or 5 picks for the likes of Josh and Marvin. By no means do I blame the Hawks for trying. We just made the mistake of over valuing certain players and as a result, hanging on to them too long.

So I guess it would have been Sund trying to trade them (since BK drafted them)?The point I was making to North was an attempt was made - but a partner must also be willing. Edited January 25, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[turnermx]

Takes two to tango!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jody23]

So I guess it would have been Sund trying to trade them (since BK drafted them)?

Yep. It was Sund and ASG wasn't going to allow him to part with key pieces of a competitive team unless he got high value or high, but cheap value for them. Hence the attempts at lottery picks with those guys. No way would Knight easily part with the picks for his all 6'8 team that he defended until he left. Knight created a great opportunity for this franchise, but his ego ruined it.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

There was no OTHER team interested in JJ or could afford him at that salary. Only the Nets who don't mind paying the trillion dollar luxury tax!And with that - I'm off this merry-go-round! Again.

There was no other interested team at the TIME, that was interested in JJ. Once again, I've always said that when the Hawks wanted to shop JJ, the teams that would be calling, are the high dollar teams like the Lakers. And when the Lakers had all of their problems last season, that would've been the time to trade him.

Even with Brooklyn, maybe you simply wait . . . then make a trade with them at a later date, for a better deal.

Ferry's go was to get out from under JJ's contract as quickly as possible, and he did that. Dead roaches or feathers in return.

It flies in the face of everything we thought would happen with this core, when most of us thought that we would always be able to trade our "core" for upgrades in talent or for better fitting players. Even as late as 2011, this was the belief.

I want to see what Ferry does at the deadline this year. Does he trade a player or two for an upgrade in talent? Does he trade for a future asset? Or does he do nothing?

[Diesel]

Brooklyn leveraged Deron Williams with the JJ signing. We could have gotten more. Deron said without JJ, he would have been gone.

About Ferry...

Have we forgotten that he offered Josh an extension??

And you say this guy is the best?

Give me Stan Kasten and a plan... any day.

[tbhawksfan]

So I guess it would have been Sund trying to trade them (since BK drafted them)?The point I was making to North was an attempt was made - but a partner must also be willing.

Takes two to tango!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, and if we've been trying to trade up all along, why didn't he NOT sign Korver, Sap, JT and take the gift sealed opportunity to control our own destiny in the draft this year. We basically only had Horf and Lou and 7 recent picks.

I hope he didn't really think that we'd get some great pick from Brooklyn a team that's $30M over the tax.

Sad thing is that we basically have our "Nique" in Horford, a top 20 player, and he's been here for a while. If we're going to do something with Horf in the core, it needs to start happening pretty soon.

[MaceCase]

I can't understand how Horf can be mentioned in the same sentence as tanking. If you tanked you did it at the expense of Horf, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You roll the dice that you can both obtain a top pick and actually draft a player that can become a top 20 player like Horf but you can't expect Horf to have a shit eating grin through the process. Why do I say this? Because there are too many examples of star level players wanting no part of a rebuild.

Tracy McGrady demanded a trade from Orlando the moment Dwight Frickin Howard was drafted (he wanted Okafor because he believed him to be more win now).

Vince Carter wanted no part of Chris Frickin Bosh, half-assed on the court to the point that Toronto fans publicly booed him and their front office, due to both personal demands by Carter and public malaise, had to trade an in his prime Carter for a package that would make every dissenter of the Joe trade blush.

The NETS themselves in an attempt to appease Deron who was growing rapidly more disgruntled with losing traded away their lotto pick for Gerald Wallace.

LaMarcus Aldridge was questioning his front office blowing it up himself until that lotto pick that they acquired from the Nets turned into the Rookie of the Year Damian Lillard.

Anyone remember Kobe Bryant and this tirade over the Lakers refusing to trade Bynum for a 33 year old Jason Kidd?

"ship his ass out"

Derrick Rose is in a frickin wheelchair bitching about the Bulls making rebuilding moves for Christ's sakes.,

If Ferry wanted to tank then he'd have to go all in, no half-assing. Horf has already publicly expressed the nervousness he had over Ferry's free agency decisions, imagine his feelings if Ferry just sat on that money? So, Horf too would now be a likely casualty for this quest for a top pick.....which is fine with me, I'm still young, I still have maybe 80,60, 50,...25,...10 more years on this earth. I think Horf is expendable in a full on rebuild, I can endure a decade of perhaps whiffing and being the Kings or Bobcats or.....HAWKS, I got hobbies, I can wait on a title or even just a contender but can the city of Atlanta? Can the Hawks franchise? Can the ASG?

The Sixers at least have an exciting Rookie of the Year candidate winning some games to fill some seats while they dream of adding potentially 2 lotto picks and last draft's near consensus #1 coming back from injury. The Hawks would be entertaining an empty building to the sounds of a clanked Schröder jumper and the slimmer odds that they end up with the next Durant over the next Marvin. Not as enviable a position for either a fan or a businessman.

Edited January 26, 2014 by MaceCase