Kudos to Danny Ferry for Two F Grade Drafts.

[AHF]

I'm not sure how you can say these picks are slow growth right now. Too early. And jenkins might bounce back. Glass half full vs half empty i guess.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Slow growth = not ready to contribute this year with growth into contributors and beyond in future seasons.

One guy was so far from being ready that he isn't in the league and the other has played 277 minutes over 46 games for an average of 6 minutes per game. How can they be viewed as anything but slow growth picks at this point? It is too early to say whether these were good picks but the ballots are in as far as whether Ferry drafted them expecting them to be ready out of the gate.

I don't see Jenkins in that mold - just injured. Jenkins averaged double digit minutes and was a regular part of the rotation. That is someone expected to be ready to play.

[IheartVolt]

I tell you what, you replace LD with Budz and Josh with Millsap and you've got a contender in the East. Assuming we had this same bench anyway. Maybe even swap Marvin with Korver but I think Budz could get more out of Marvin than anyone has. But yeah you make a great point here.

with Marvin and Joe , I think we could not have the same bench.. Forget Korver..We would have Scott and Lou but no brand Pero and an important piece in DMC..I will admitt this much when we signed DMC I was like what ? But to Ferrys credit another wonderful find..Yea lets trash the first bit of basketball knowledge this org. has had in a long time..

[Admin]

Slow growth = not ready to contribute this year with growth into contributors and beyond in future seasons.

One guy was so far from being ready that he isn't in the league and the other has played 277 minutes over 46 games for an average of 6 minutes per game. How can they be viewed as anything but slow growth picks at this point? It is too early to say whether these were good picks but the ballots are in as far as whether Ferry drafted them expecting them to be ready out of the gate.

I don't see Jenkins in that mold - just injured. Jenkins averaged double digit minutes and was a regular part of the rotation. That is someone expected to be ready to play.

How can anyone expect extremely raw foreign prospects to do anything but exhibit "slow" growth? One is 3rd string on the PG depth chart and the other needed a lot of strength and conditioning and started out overseas before getting injured. If anyone had expectations of these guys being anything more than they are then it's an expectation problem on their end.

with Marvin and Joe , I think we could not have the same bench.. Forget Korver..We would have Scott and Lou but no brand Pero and an important piece in DMC..I will admitt this much when we signed DMC I was like what ? But to Ferrys credit another wonderful find..Yea lets trash the first bit of basketball knowledge this org. has had in a long time..

Well I'm ignoring salary I'm just talking about the roster.

[AHF]

I tell you what, you replace LD with Budz and Josh with Millsap and you've got a contender in the East. Assuming we had this same bench anyway. Maybe even swap Marvin with Korver but I think Budz could get more out of Marvin than anyone has.

But yeah you make a great point here.

Coming into this season (with Budz and Millsap and minus LD and Josh) we were contenders.....for a second round playoff appearance. We weren't contenders for the ECF or an NBA championship. I don't count that as being contenders.

In a historically weak East, I think we are the 3rd seed if a bit more healthy but we weren't anymore contenders than we were with JJ, Josh, etc. At least we weren't this season. We have more options to make the leap going forward but are going to deal with the same challenge the Rockets dealt with in recent seasons - trying to build a contender from the middle of the pack. That is a real challenge.

[IheartVolt]

Slow growth = not ready to contribute this year with growth into contributors and beyond in future seasons. One guy was so far from being ready that he isn't in the league and the other has played 277 minutes over 46 games for an average of 6 minutes per game. How can they be viewed as anything but slow growth picks at this point? It is too early to say whether these were good picks but the ballots are in as far as whether Ferry drafted them expecting them to be ready out of the gate. I don't see Jenkins in that mold - just injured. Jenkins averaged double digit minutes and was a regular part of the rotation. That is someone expected to be ready to play.

I believe Dennis is on a leash from Bud.. Not sure why but the guy could contribute now if given the steady minutes. Every coachhas different philosophy when it comes to these young guys , and you have to consider he is from over seas

[Admin]

Coming into this season (with Budz and Millsap and minus LD and Josh) we were contenders.....for a second round playoff appearance. We weren't contenders for the ECF or an NBA championship. I don't count that as being contenders.

In a historically weak East, I think we are the 3rd seed if a bit more healthy but we weren't anymore contenders than we were with JJ, Josh, etc. At least we weren't this season. We have more options to make the leap going forward but are going to deal with the same challenge the Rockets dealt with in recent seasons - trying to build a contender from the middle of the pack. That is a real challenge.

I disagree. I think with Horford and this current group we're a strong contender against anyone in the East. You add JJ to that mix and you've got a real 2 who can make a difference on both ends and I can easily see us being able to beat Miami or Indy. Not saying we would beat them, but I could absolutely see it as I expect a different JJ playing in Budz style.

[Admin]

I believe Dennis is on a leash from Bud.. Not sure why but the guy could contribute now if given the steady minutes. Every coachhas different philosophy when it comes to these young guys , and you have to consider he is from over seas

I think if Mack weren't playing so far above expectations that Schröder would be getting a lot more time. We have to keep in mind that these guys don't get much practice time during the season and that's where they say the young guys really get better so he's limited in that regard. Then with Mack playing so well and Teague being the unquestioned starter there just aren't many minutes for Schröder.

[turnermx]

I think Dennis will get his chance through injury or trade(hopefully the latter) and he will develop into a very good if not great PG. I think he is still experiencing culture shock and mastering english right now. I can see alot of potential in him. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AHF]

How can anyone expect extremely raw foreign prospects to do anything but exhibit "slow" growth? One is 3rd string on the PG depth chart and the other needed a lot of strength and conditioning and started out overseas before getting injured. If anyone had expectations of these guys being anything more than they are then it's an expectation problem on their end.

I wasn't criticizing the picks. I am on record as really liking this draft. I was simply pointing out that guys who are a year or two away from contributing are more often associating with rebuilding teams who can use the lack of a boost from the draft in the short-term to optimize their chances at better picks this year and then use the higher upside, slow growth players to build the team once the foundational player(s) have been drafted. Teams that are trying to win today typically want to get a positive impact in the short-term from their picks. Thus, I see why anyone who wanted to have a shot at winning the East this year is going to be frustrated by the picks because they do nothing to bolster our chances.

Yea lets trash the first bit of basketball knowledge this org. has had in a long time..

I am not trashing Ferry - just pointing out that anyone has an equally valid body of evidence to criticize Ferry's drafting as someone does to praise it. He has no starters and one good backup rotation player out of 3 second round picks and 3 first round picks (4 if you count Cunningham). If those growth players don't do the growing that we expect from them, Ferry will look at home with his draft production compared to our stable of worst-ever drafters. It is far too early to make that call, though. I think he needs another 2 years before we will really start to see how he is with the draft in Atlanta.

In Cleveland, he was mediocre with the draft. No home runs but a mix of whiffs and hits relative to the draft position.

Too early to say but I am not going to ridicule someone for loving his drafting in Atlanta so far or for hating that we haven't had any impact from our 3 (or 4 with Cunningham) first round picks so far.

[Admin]

I wasn't criticizing the picks. I am on record as really liking this draft. I was simply pointing out that guys who are a year or two away from contributing are more often associating with rebuilding teams who can use the lack of a boost from the draft in the short-term to optimize their chances at better picks this year and then use the higher upside, slow growth players to build the team once the foundational player(s) have been drafted. Teams that are trying to win today typically want to get a positive impact in the short-term from their picks. Thus, I see why anyone who wanted to have a shot at winning the East this year is going to be frustrated by the picks because they do nothing to bolster our chances.

I am not trashing Ferry - just pointing out that anyone has an equally valid body of evidence to criticize Ferry's drafting as someone does to praise it. He has no starters and one good backup rotation player out of 3 second round picks and 3 first round picks (4 if you count Cunningham). If those growth players don't do the growing that we expect from them, Ferry will look at home with his draft production compared to our stable of worst-ever drafters. It is far too early to make that call, though. I think he needs another 2 years before we will really start to see how he is with the draft in Atlanta.

In Cleveland, he was mediocre with the draft. No home runs but a mix of whiffs and hits relative to the draft position.

Too early to say but I am not going to ridicule someone for loving his drafting in Atlanta so far or for hating that we haven't had any impact from our 3 (or 4 with Cunningham) first round picks so far.

I gotcha. I just hope that nobody actually thought that we were trying to win the East this year. I see Ferry as doing nothing but collecting assets as best as he can and trying to win whatever games that we can. We're not "tanking" and we're not "going for it all" but he's making smart FA choices and hopefully drafting players who will be worth a lot more than their draft positions. If we continue to do that year after year we're going to be in great shape.

[Guest]

How many #23 picks (JJ) start for their teams after their 1st year?

[AHF]

I think Dennis will get his chance through injury or trade(hopefully the latter) and he will develop into a very good if not great PG. I think he is still experiencing culture shock and mastering english right now. I can see alot of potential in him.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am also big on Schröder. He is in 'potential' mode this season rather than production mode this season.

He hasn't done much with his minutes so far. Using per minute stats, Schröder is averaging a 6.6 PER (terrible), a -0.042 WS/48 (terrible) 10.9 pp36 on .474 ts% (terrible efficiency), 5.3 ap36 and 3.9 top36. He is definitely going through a rough transition into the league and IMO has much brighter days ahead. A guy like Klay Thompson was a year older and much more ready to step into a crowded backcourt and make an impact when he stepped on the floor. There are plenty of guys who did this who were both younger and older like Isaiah Thomas (older), Tobias Harris (younger), etc.

Slow growth isn't the wrong way to go necessarily - Lance Stephenson, Jermaine O'Neal, and many others turned out to be much better than guys who were immediate contributors. At that point, it is partly a matter of expectations for the team. I don't think we had any chance of winning anything of substance this season and so have been perfectly fine with taking our time developing higher upside talent rather than grabbing someone who could contribute more quickly (I still want us to win as much as possible because we have the Nets to lose more than us). Someone who wants to see us win as many games as possible this season as their top priority has a legit reason to be frustrated, IMO.

[Admin]

How many #23 picks (JJ) start for their teams after their 1st year?

74% start for their teams after their 1st year

63% of all statistics are made up.

[AHF]

How many #23 picks (JJ) start for their teams after their 1st year?

Are we counting Jenkins as a starter after this year?

By my count, he has 2 career starts to date.

From his draft class, the list of people accomplishing that is pretty big.

6 of the 8 players drafted immediately after Jenkins have hit that mark:

Tony Wroten

Miles Plumlee

Perry Jones

Marquis Teague

Festus Ezeli

Jeff Taylor

1 of the 2 who hasn't? Jared Cunningham

[IheartVolt]

Are we counting Jenkins as a starter after this year? By my count, he has 2 career starts to date. From his draft class, the list of people accomplishing that is pretty big. 6 of the 8 players drafted immediately after Jenkins have hit that mark: Tony WrotenMiles PlumleePerry JonesMarquis TeagueFestus EzeliJeff Taylor 1 of the 2 who hasn't? Jared Cunningham

That is a list of guys thrown to the wolves.. Plumlee is the exception..Tony Wroten is lost .. Marquis Teague? Give me a healthy Jenkins Edited February 4, 2014 by savwboy

[Admin]

Are we counting Jenkins as a starter after this year?

By my count, he has 2 career starts to date.

From his draft class, the list of people accomplishing that is pretty big.

6 of the 8 players drafted immediately after Jenkins have hit that mark:

Tony Wroten (12 career starts - all this year)

Miles Plumlee (47 career starts - all this year)

Perry Jones (3 career starts)

Marquis Teague (2 career starts)

Festus Ezeli (42 career starts - missed this whole year due to injury)

Jeff Taylor (37 carer starts - only 9 this year)

1 of the 2 who hasn't? Jared Cunningham

Out of that whole list, only Plumlee has been impressive to me and made me wish we had him instead of Jenkins.

[Guest]

You indicated that Ferry hasn't picked a player who is a starter (I assume you mean full time). None of the players you listed are starting for their teams.

Maybe I read your post wrong.

In the last 10 years how many players who were picked at #23 or later were full time starters in year 2? (excluding the Spurs, lol)

[AHF]

That is a list of guys thrown to the wolves.. Plumlee is the exception..Tony Wroten is lost .. Marquis Teague? Give me a healthy Jenkins

Wroten 2013-14 11.9 PER

Jenkins Career: PER 11.8

I am just saying that we shouldn't be calling JJ any kind of success yet. Personally, I like what I saw from Jenkins last season better than Wroten as well. Jenkins was so worthless this season as to be an instant cut so I am crossing my fingers that it was an injury that accounted for all his struggles and not anything else.

[Guest]

74% start for their teams after their 1st year

63% of all statistics are made up.

You almost had me ...I was like what the what?

[AHF]

You indicated that Ferry hasn't picked a player who is a starter (I assume you mean full time). None of the players you listed are starting for their teams.

Maybe I read your post wrong.

In the last 10 years how many players who were picked at #23 or later were full time starters in year 2? (excluding the Spurs, lol)

I probably read your post wrong.

My point was that Ferry hasn't done anything of note in the draft yet. It is too early to really judge.

Tayshaun Prince was the #23 pick overall and was an impact player in the playoffs his rookie season and a starter his second year. That is something to be proud of in the draft. You could view that as a success.

Tony Parker was the #28 overall pick and a starter from day 1 at age 19. That was a pick to crow about.

Jamaal Tinsley was the #27 overall pick and a starter on a playoff team. That was an impact pick.

Ferry isn't there yet.