Kudos to Danny Ferry for Two F Grade Drafts.

[Ruckus]

....and still no response from the OP.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Coming on a little hard with all this and Moose is tearing it up in Bebe's league. I think Ferry is the kind of GM that will bring Bebe and Muscala to the team next season. Muscala has been proving his skills by having some spanish league leading stats, Noguieura has potential and Schröder is quickly getting it together, he has plenty of talent. Scott is coming out. If you look at other players from the last 2 drafts and our draft position, I'm giving him a wait and see B+ on his 2 drafts.

Wow.I guess every team deserves at least a B then.

[tbhawksfan]

Wow.I guess every team deserves at least a B then.

Not every team (Clev comes to mind). But, you do have to give the young guys time to integrate and establish their level. Some very productive rookies don't even get a chance because of team depth. there are a lot of variables.

I question the combination of moves made, but I'll give a decent grade, for now, and see how it plays out.

[IheartVolt]

I heart Ferry ( no homo )

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Not every team (Clev comes to mind). But, you do have to give the young guys time to integrate and establish their level. Some very productive rookies don't even get a chance because of team depth. there are a lot of variables.

I question the combination of moves made, but I'll give a decent grade, for now, and see how it plays out.

Let's look at Cleveland the past 2 years

2012 Draft

- Dion Waiters ( 4th pick ) . . . solid starter/6th man type player

- Jared Cunningham ( 24th pick ) . . . traded in a deal to obtain Tyler Zeller ( 17th pick ) . . who is a fringe rotational player these days

- Bernard James ( 33rd pick ) . . traded to obtain Tyler Zeller

- Jae Crowder ( 34th pick ) . . traded to obtain Tyler Zeller

2013 Draft

- Anthony Bennett ( 1st pick ) . . . a very underachieving 8th man type rotational player

- Sergey Karasev ( 19th pick ) . . . not in the NBA, overseas

- Allen Crabbe ( 31st pick ) . . . traded to Portland for 2 future 2nd round picks

- Carrick Felix ( 33rd pick ) . . . injury prone, D-League player

So in 2 years, Cleveland has drafted or obtained through the draft . .

- Waiters . . who is a solid young guard that is getting a lot of playing time

- Zeller . . who got a lot of minutes last year ( due to the Varejao injury ), but is now a fringe rotational player

- Bennett . . who has been a major disappointment so far, especially as a #1 pick

- Karasev . . who isn't even in the NBA yet

- Felix . . who looks to be like most 2nd rounders who never really makes it in the NBA.

What grade would you give them?

[Admin]

Let's look at Cleveland the past 2 years

2012 Draft

- Dion Waiters ( 4th pick ) . . . solid starter/6th man type player

- Jared Cunningham ( 24th pick ) . . . traded in a deal to obtain Tyler Zeller ( 17th pick ) . . who is a fringe rotational player these days

- Bernard James ( 33rd pick ) . . traded to obtain Tyler Zeller

- Jae Crowder ( 34th pick ) . . traded to obtain Tyler Zeller

2013 Draft

- Anthony Bennett ( 1st pick ) . . . a very underachieving 8th man type rotational player

- Sergey Karasev ( 19th pick ) . . . not in the NBA, overseas

- Allen Crabbe ( 31st pick ) . . . traded to Portland for 2 future 2nd round picks

- Carrick Felix ( 33rd pick ) . . . injury prone, D-League player

So in 2 years, Cleveland has drafted or obtained through the draft . .

- Waiters . . who is a solid young guard that is getting a lot of playing time

- Zeller . . who got a lot of minutes last year ( due to the Varejao injury ), but is now a fringe rotational player

- Bennett . . who has been a major disappointment so far, especially as a #1 pick

- Karasev . . who isn't even in the NBA yet

- Felix . . who looks to be like most 2nd rounders who never really makes it in the NBA.

What grade would you give them?

An incomplete, which is what you have to give EVERY team for their drafts of the past 1.5 years. You can't judge a teams draft in 1.5 years as some players will look good early and not improve or get worse (Marvin comes to mind) or some players take a few years to develop into the types of players they'll become (ala Jermaine O'Neal and others). Anyone who wants to grade Danny Ferry at this point on his drafts is doing nothing but being shortsighted as far as I'm concerned.

5 years from now we could end up having 2 cornerstone players in Schröder and Bebe, or they could end up being nothing but wasted picks, but they're so raw we really have no idea.

Jenkins looked good when he got playing time last year and you have to assume this years problems were related to his back.

Scott looks like he's going to be a good rotational player and Muscala may end up being that type of player as well as he's supposedly playing very well overseas.

The point is that just as with football you really need to give these young guys 3 years of actually playing the game before you know what you've got with them.

[kurupt]

Plus, its kind of silly to compare the quality of players drafted between Cleveland and Atlanta anyway. They picked 1st and 4th while the Hawks had the 17th and 19th picks in this draft. Quite a difference.

And I completely agree, grading later picks of young players after half a season doesn´t make any sense. Players like Nowitzki would have been a bust by that standard and Tony Parker would have been as "bad" as Schröder is supposed to be.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Lady and gentlemen, my thing is this.

I agree that you can't necessarily kill Ferry for his draft picks by giving him an F, because we do need to see if they can be developed in the future.

On the flip side, you can't act like Ferry did such a great job with his 2 drafts, that you're willing to give him a high draft grade, even though only one of his draft picks is even contributing.

The facts are that as of right now, only Mike Scott is contributing to this team on a nightly basis. Jenkins is hurt. Dennis can't crack the rotation. And Bebe and Muscala are overseas. At some point in the very near future, Ferry and Bud are going to either have to make a commitment to develop some or all of these guys, or trade them away for other project type players who may be a better fit.

It's going to be very interesting to see who Ferry decides to keep off of this current squad. These are the players who have guaranteed deals next year.

PG - Teague

G - Korver

F - Carroll

PF - Millsap

C - Horford

G - Williams

G - Schröder

G - Jenkins

1st round pick 2014

Mack, Scott, Ayón, Brand, Martin, Cunningham and Antić are guys who aren't guaranteed next year.

To me, either Williams or Mack cannot be brought back next year, in order to give Dennis the backup PG spot again and commit to developing him. And to make time for at least Bebe, two out of the three from Brand, Antić, and Ayón shouldn't be brought back.

If a guy like Bebe isn't over here next year, he may turn out to be just like Euro draft picks of the past . . . Sergiy Gladyr . . Cenk Akyol . . David Andersen. He needs to be here next year.

[MaceCase]

Draft position seems to be a point that is rather remiss in the "analysis" of Ferry's drafts.

[Guest]

Lady and gentlemen, my thing is this. I agree that you can't necessarily kill Ferry for his draft picks by giving him an F, because we do need to see if they can be developed in the future. On the flip side, you can't act like Ferry did such a great job with his 2 drafts, that you're willing to give him a high draft grade, even though only one of his draft picks is even contributing. The facts are that as of right now, only Mike Scott is contributing to this team on a nightly basis. Jenkins is hurt. Dennis can't crack the rotation. And Bebe and Muscala are overseas. At some point in the very near future, Ferry and Bud are going to either have to make a commitment to develop some or all of these guys, or trade them away for other project type players who may be a better fit. It's going to be very interesting to see who Ferry decides to keep off of this current squad. These are the players who have guaranteed deals next year. PG - TeagueG - KorverF - CarrollPF - MillsapC - Horford G - WilliamsG - SchröderG - Jenkins1st round pick 2014 Mack, Scott, Ayón, Brand, Martin, Cunningham and Antić are guys who aren't guaranteed next year. To me, either Williams or Mack cannot be brought back next year, in order to give Dennis the backup PG spot again and commit to developing him. And to make time for at least Bebe, two out of the three from Brand, Antić, and Ayón shouldn't be brought back. If a guy like Bebe isn't over here next year, he may turn out to be just like Euro draft picks of the past . . . Sergiy Gladyr . . Cenk Akyol . . David Andersen. He needs to be here next year.

Thanks for acknowledging me, lol.As of now it's an incomplete grade - Jenkins was in the regular rotation last season under LD and was decent (#23), unfortunately this season is busted due to injury. So there is no way to tell what Jenkins can be under Bud. Mike Scott is flourishing and as a 2nd rounder - great pick.I do agree that Bebe should be in a Hawks uni next season.Schröder may not be seeing regular minutes (I think he should be) but I am seeing improvements to his game, his shooting stroke looks different. Lou needs to be traded this season so Dennis can play. Period.

[Admin]

And Cleveland's great drafting with 6 first round picks in 3 years has led their GM to be fired today while ours is sitting there looking real good right now.

[MaceCase]

Does Pero factor into Ferry's grade? Not a draft pick but he is a rookie.

[HawkItus]

And Cleveland's great drafting with 6 first round picks in 3 years has led their GM to be fired today while ours is sitting there looking real good right now.

Exactly, but lets not get the merry go round started again.

[nathan2331]

Does Pero factor into Ferry's grade?  Not a draft pick but he is a rookie.

This. While it is more of an indictment on this draft class, he has been a top ten rookie this year.

[Sothron]

I still am flummoxed at how anyone is upset over the drafts Ferry has had. Who the hell was there for us to pick in those spots that would be better for us? Mike Scott as a second round pick is a beast for that kind of value. Dennis is showing once again how good he is now let alone how good he will be. Bebe is hurt, can't really comment except that when he was in SL and healthy he looked good. Jenkins I don't like but that draft was handled mainly by Sund, Ferry said coming in he was relying on his scouting.

So all this F draft, C minus...really?? GTFO with that.

[Guest]

I still am flummoxed at how anyone is upset over the drafts Ferry has had. Who the hell was there for us to pick in those spots that would be better for us? Mike Scott as a second round pick is a beast for that kind of value. Dennis is showing once again how good he is now let alone how good he will be. Bebe is hurt, can't really comment except that when he was in SL and healthy he looked good. Jenkins I don't like but that draft was handled mainly by Sund, Ferry said coming in he was relying on his scouting. So all this F draft, C minus...really?? GTFO with that.

Haaha - you said flummoxed! Well said. Edited February 6, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[Sothron]

Haaha - you said flummoxed! Well said.

Thanks. Was more polite than what I really want to say heh.

Haaha - you said flummoxed! Well said.

Thanks. Was more polite than what I really want to say heh.

[AHF]

Personally, I don't know how you do anything other than an incomplete to date. If you are going to press and give a letter grade based on production through the present, I don't see how you go far from a C. There is so much unknown to the last two drafts that Ferry could come off looking like a genius (Schröder blows up; Jenkins gets healthy and becomes a deadly sniper who spaces the floor; Scott is a super value for his draft spot; Bebe is an impact defensive player inside, etc.) or like another Atlanta Hawks GM wasting picks (Scott never learns to play defense and is a useful but limited role player; Bebe and Muscola never play in the NBA; Schröder and Jenkins are benched behind D-League pickups; etc.).

Nobody should be praising these drafts or dumping on them in the limited window of time these picks have had. My whole original point, however, was that if someone is willing to rely on their optimistic guess on player develop to work up some kind of "A" grade then they shouldn't dump on someone like the OP who similarly relies on his guess and puts up pessimistic projections. There is just a wide range of realistic projections for these guys with so much unknown.

[Vol4ever]

Schröder has a long ways to go. BeBe and Muscala will be bench players at best imo. Scott was a good pick because he has really worked on his game, Jenkins was a great shooter coming out of college, but he has been injured. The problem DF has is the ownership group in place are not focused on winning. You can drive a Chevy or a BMW, our ownership goes for the cheaper Chevy route.

[turnermx]

Thats opinion and not based on fact really.. Im frankly tired of ASG being called cheap after they overpaid JJ.. And FAs were not beating down their door for them to go over cap either.. Even when they had room and were willing to go over the cap for dwight and chris they cant control the minds of the FAs so they have done the next best thing.. Focus on value players, player development and strong team culture.. In the hopes that this will attract future FAs that Will be worth going over cap for.. Otherwise our team sucks and over the cap too like Knicks or Nets. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk