Anyone besides me just wonder 24/7 about Ferrys direction?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

JTB . . . this is like the Will Smith movie "I, Robot". You are correct in your skepticism of the GM. And you're close in understanding the true answer to your question. Keep searching, and the answer will be revealed to you in due time.

[Wretch]

I can argue with one thing you said "Dennis being an intriguing player"...now that's true but you would think Dennis would atleast get 15 minutes a game especially in a downhill season.And just my two cents on the part if you put horford and sap on the table statement you made....I hate to say it but I see more teams trying to get over on us than teams trying to make a fair deal which will ultimately force ferry to keep them both. In other words I don't think you can get back as much as we may want to believe for horford and sap, not because they aren't good players but because recent past trades don't work out too well when one team is giving up their best players and the other team has nothing to offer.If anyone believes we can trade sap and horford for a star caliber player they are kidding theirselves or that star player will be a free agent after the season (which may be a risk to take honestly).

Totally agree with you dude. This is why I brought up the subject of Horford LAST SUMMER. We could still get a decent offer for him - he's got 2 full years left. If we stumble through next season though and we don't move him, his value is going to plummet simply because he will be an expiring. I said this all summer, but the Horford situation is not something we want to d*ck around with. We need a real team in a hurry if we want to have any hopes of keeping him.

Either way, Ferry's playing the optimistic side of this. That's all he can be doing along with waiting for the right deal to pounce on because he's not rebuilding. I know a lot of people don't see it, but even though it looks like Ferry is playing it smart and safe...this is a gamble.

As far as Dennis...what if we showcase him and he exposes himself. He is a rookie afterall. At least right now we have the luxury of saying that he's looked good in limited minutes and has potential hanging over him. You play him right now and, God forbid, he gets exposed...

In any case, like I said...can't argue with you dude. Been saying the same thing since we moved JJ and Marv. Should have changed gears right then and there and started rebuilding.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Wretch

[HawkItus]

So let me get this straight.........

[*]A smart guy, duke graduate [*]Former NBA player [*]2nd time GM [*]refined under Pop and the Spurs brain trust [*]got rid of the biggest obstacles to this team being a contender [*]sought and hired by a group who has made nary a peep since giving him the keys to his vision

is going along at this half-assed and reacting to every little issue that pops up with no guiding principles or plan of action? But, a bunch of couch gm's have this figured out(I'm sure you all are excellent at your day jobs). Never was good at math, but it doesn't add up to me.

[AHF]

JTB . . . this is like the Will Smith movie "I, Robot". You are correct in your skepticism of the GM. And you're close in understanding the true answer to your question. Keep searching, and the answer will be revealed to you in due time.

Does that mean this is a soulless, paint-by-numbers product that rips out the soul of the source material but still uses the name to generate additional sales?

[Guest]

Agree that we're in a bit of a tenuous situation. What I don't understand is what the actual plan was even dating back to the JoeJohn/Marv moves. I contend he wanted to trade Millsap all along but Horford's injury was an "oh, crap" moment and we've been treading water ever since. Well, you can't tread water or you'll end up reactive or on the bad end of lopsided, unfavorable deals.

There's no Harden-esque deal out there IMHO so what in the actual f*ck is the supposed asset accumulation for? That deal was luck and happenstance meeting opportunity.

Matching Teague was also weird (although I don't have a big problem with his deal size/years) if he was supposedly open to trading him this season.

I don't know. I'm talking into and out of circles at this point so I'll shut-up. Tl;dr version: I don't think Ferry has a solid plan.

Just because you don't see one AT THIS MOMENT doesn't mean one MIGHT not become available. There is nothing static about player movement in the NBA.

I'll throw this out as food for thought: What if Kyrie Irving decides not to take the extension Cleveland offer over the Summer and they decide they want to move him in lieu of letting him leave like LBJ? What if OKC flubs in the playoffs this season because Russell Westbrook takes too many shots over KD and OKC decides to move him? What if the Kings get tired of DMC's attitude? Or what if they like Sap enough to pair with DMC and decides they don't need another young draft pick. (we trade our pick and Sap for their pick)? What if GSW decides to trade one of Klay or Harrison?

It's all fluid. It's not only one direction that is available.

[AHF]

Just because you don't see one AT THIS MOMENT doesn't mean one MIGHT not become available. There is nothing static about player movement in the NBA.

I'll throw this out as food for thought: What if Kyrie Irving decides not to take the extension Cleveland offer over the Summer and they decide they want to move him in lieu of letting him leave like LBJ? What if OKC flubs in the playoffs this season because Russell Westbrook takes too many shots over KD and OKC decides to move him? What if the Kings get tired of DMC's attitude? Or what if they like Sap enough to pair with DMC and decides they don't need another young draft pick. (we trade our pick and Sap for their pick)? What if GSW decides to trade one of Klay or Harrison?

It's all fluid. It's not only one direction that is available.

I think this is how they play out:

Cleveland decides to shop Kyrie - Hawks don't get him because we get outbid by teams like Boston that have lottery picks and more first rounders to offer. A team like Boston, Philly, Phoenix, etc. gets him.

OKC flips Westbrook - Hawks have a better chance here if OKC wants Horford. If OKC models this deal after the Harden one, the Hawks have no chance because they haven't collected draft assets. (Two lottery picks and a useful vet on an expiring deal was the Harden equation).

Sacramento shops their lottery pick for a vet. Probably outbid by a team like Minnesota but this would be our best case scenario. Sacramento's owners are not smart and when dumb owners get desperate, you occasionally end up with trades like Lilliard for Gerald Wallace.

GS trades Klay (unlikely) or Harrison (likely). We are probably outbid here. They will want cheap talent, not to take on salary. Queue Boston, etc. who can offer firsts.

I recognize that we could succeed along multiple lines but I don't see a % play on any of them:

Trades - Hawks have limited assets compared to other rebuilding teams. On the plus side, we have movable vets to include in a deal but few of them are assets that would drive a significant deal. Tough to see the pieces fitting together here but maybe this is the best option for this moment in time.

Free agency - Hawks have tied up their cap room for the immediate future. We can still add value here, just not a proven star without more moves and we are in a market where it is tough to draw a star.

Draft - We are positioned for a pick after the elite prospects are gone this year. We can still hope for a Paul George but the odds are against us and Ferry has yet to truly mine a gem from the draft in Cleveland or Atlanta.

Edited February 26, 2014 by AHF

[Guest]

I think this is how they play out:

Cleveland decides to shop Kyrie - Hawks don't get him because we get outbid by teams like Boston that have lottery picks and more first rounders to offer. A team like Boston, Philly, Phoenix, etc. gets him.

OKC flips Westbrook - Hawks have a better chance here if OKC wants Horford. If OKC models this deal after the Harden one, the Hawks have no chance because they haven't collected draft assets. (Two lottery picks and a useful vet on an expiring deal was the Harden equation).

Sacramento shops their lottery pick for a vet. Probably outbid by a team like Minnesota but this would be our best case scenario. Sacramento's owners are not smart and when dumb owners get desperate, you occasionally end up with trades like Lilliard for Gerald Wallace.

GS trades Klay (unlikely) or Harrison (likely). We are probably outbid here. They will want cheap talent, not to take on salary. Queue Boston, etc. who can offer firsts.

I recognize that we could succeed along multiple lines but I don't see a % play on any of them:

Trades - Hawks have limited assets compared to other rebuilding teams. On the plus side, we have movable vets to include in a deal but few of them are assets that would drive a significant deal. Tough to see the pieces fitting together here but maybe this is the best option for this moment in time.

Free agency - Hawks have tied up their cap room for the immediate future. We can still add value here, just not a proven star without more moves and we are in a market where it is tough to draw a star.

Draft - We are positioned for a pick after the elite prospects are gone this year. We can still hope for a Paul George but the odds are against us and Ferry has yet to truly mine a gem from the draft in Cleveland or Atlanta.

Then I guess we are just effing DOOMED!!!

We get nothing, we have nothing - we lose!!!

Edited February 26, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[AHF]

Then I guess we are just effing DOOMED!!!

If the notion is that we have such valuable assets and so much flexibility that we are the leading guys to land the next big star that comes onto the trade market, then we are doomed, IMO. The Houston/Harden situation was something that is rare enough that I don't consider it a viable franchise building model, but even if it is a viable model it needs to be fed with the draft assets and lottery picks that Houston used to land Harden. Being mediocre in record like Houston and signing good contracts like Houston without the draft assets of Houston seems like a losing hand to me.

If the goal is to acquire a foundational star sometime in the next few years, we have our fair share of opportunity and Ferry has kept open multiple paths that could lead to a % chance of success in landing that foundational star. I just don't see us being on any high % path yet. I am not calling for Ferry's head and think he needs more time to develop his vision for the team. I'm not sure where he is going to go with it.

[Guest]

I think this is how they play out:

Cleveland decides to shop Kyrie - Hawks don't get him because we get outbid by teams like Boston that have lottery picks and more first rounders to offer. A team like Boston, Philly, Phoenix, etc. gets him. All those teams you've mentioned have PG's currently who they want to keep.

OKC flips Westbrook - Hawks have a better chance here if OKC wants Horford. If OKC models this deal after the Harden one, the Hawks have no chance because they haven't collected draft assets. (Two lottery picks and a useful vet on an expiring deal was the Harden equation). Why not if the idea is to get a SUPERSTAR. The useful vet they got was Kevin Martin? Horford trumps him so Horford and our 13th pick would suffice.

Sacramento shops their lottery pick for a vet. Probably outbid by a team like Minnesota but this would be our best case scenario. Sacramento's owners are not smart and when dumb owners get desperate, you occasionally end up with trades like Lilliard for Gerald Wallace. How would Minny trump us in this scenario? As it currently stands we would own the #13 pick, Minny #16 and Sacto #6. Sap and #13 for #6 beats anything Minny can offer unless they are shopping Love or Rubio.

GS trades Klay (unlikely) or Harrison (likely). We are probably outbid here. They will want cheap talent, not to take on salary. Queue Boston, etc. who can offer firsts.

I recognize that we could succeed along multiple lines but I don't see a % play on any of them:

Trades - Hawks have limited assets compared to other rebuilding teams. On the plus side, we have movable vets to include in a deal but few of them are assets that would drive a significant deal. Tough to see the pieces fitting together here but maybe this is the best option for this moment in time.

Free agency - Hawks have tied up their cap room for the immediate future (Don't we have 10 mil in cap space next season). We can still add value here, just not a proven star without more moves and we are in a market where it is tough to draw a star.

Draft - We are positioned for a pick after the elite prospects are gone this year. We can still hope for a Paul George (still a lottery pick) but the odds are against us and Ferry has yet to truly mine a gem from the draft in Cleveland or Atlanta. Picking late teens and twenties in both places, that is tough to do. We can hope though.

[Jody23]

Where are you getting the 13th pick from? We are currently the eighth seed which means we don't get any of the top 14 picks.

[Guest]

Where are you getting the 13th pick from? We are currently the eighth seed which means we don't get any of the top 14 picks.

My mistake - I was looking at the overall league record and just counted off the slots. Total brain fart.You are correct. My point still stands that if Sacto covets a vet like Sap to pair with DMC in lieu of another young player it's possible. Edited February 26, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[tbhawksfan]

So let me get this straight.........

[*]A smart guy, duke graduate

[*]Former NBA player

[*]2nd time GM

[*]refined under Pop and the Spurs brain trust

[*]got rid of the biggest obstacles to this team being a contender

[*]sought and hired by a group who has made nary a peep since giving him the keys to his vision

is going along at this half-assed and reacting to every little issue that pops up with no guiding principles or plan of action? But, a bunch of couch gm's have this figured out(I'm sure you all are excellent at your day jobs). Never was good at math, but it doesn't add up to me.

Agree and like all your bullets, but the biggest job remains; reaching contender status. Got to get the players.

[Jody23]

My mistake - I was looking at the overall league record and just counted off the slots.You are correct. My point still stands that if Sacto covets a vet like Sap to pair with DMC in lieu of another young player it's possible.

I don't see the Kings trading their lottery pick in this draft for a vet on a one year deal and at best a mid first round pick. They'd be stupid to do that when Sap could (and most likely would) walk after the season. The Hawks do everything they possibly can to avoid being in the lottery during the season, but when the draft roles around they'll be trying to trade up with their standard "vet + our pick" offer. And just like always, teams will turn them down.

[turnermx]

I think the Sacto situation is very plausible. Cousins could want some veteran help in the frontcourt instead of another kid from the draft.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HawkItus]

Well, first, it's ok to disagree with what I'm asserting without trying to belittle my opinion. We don't all view things the same way, that's what makes the board great IMO.

Also, the first 4 things you said about Ferry were true when he flamed out spectacularly in Cleveland so I'm not sure how any of it is relevant here. I'd argue the JoeJohn trade was more poor GMing in NJ than brilliant GMing by Ferry and I think Gearon's fade to black had more to do with his own ineptitude than some vote of confidence in Ferry.

I'm sure he has some semblance of a "plan". I just don't think it's some masterpiece most people here think it is.

I think you're overall point is a salient one, we don't truly know what'll happen. My pessimism is just based on (1) my personal distrust in Ferry's genius and (2) the Hawks snakebit past. I just can't see it ending up roses for us. Hope I'm dead wrong.

CLE 2005-06 50 32 .610 2nd in Central Division 7 6 Lost In Second Round CLE 2006-07 50 32 .610 2nd in Central Division 12 8 Lost In NBA Finals CLE 2007-08 45 37 .549 2nd in Central Division 7 6 Lost in Secnd Round CLE 2008-09 66 16 .805 1st in Central Division 10 4 Lost in Third Round CLE 2009-10 61 21 .744 1st in Central Division 6 5 Lost In Second Round

That is a spectacular failure? If he pulled that off here he would go down as the greatest GM we ever had. I'm not belittling you I'm accounting the position that has championed in this thread. Disagree with the man, question his direction, but to imply he is a bumbling executive is just not valid.

[Jody23]

As far as trading into the lottery is concerned, wouldn't doing so be an indictment on the direction Ferry took this season? If you trade Sap and/or Horford to draft a rookie, won't that likely make the Hawks a non-playoff team?

[HawkItus]

If the notion is that we have such valuable assets and so much flexibility that we are the leading guys to land the next big star that comes onto the trade market, then we are doomed, IMO. The Houston/Harden situation was something that is rare enough that I don't consider it a viable franchise building model, but even if it is a viable model it needs to be fed with the draft assets and lottery picks that Houston used to land Harden. Being mediocre in record like Houston and signing good contracts like Houston without the draft assets of Houston seems like a losing hand to me.

If the goal is to acquire a foundational star sometime in the next few years, we have our fair share of opportunity and Ferry has kept open multiple paths that could lead to a % chance of success in landing that foundational star. I just don't see us being on any high % path yet. I am not calling for Ferry's head and think he needs more time to develop his vision for the team. I'm not sure where he is going to go with it.

AHF let's just reason that many of these stars have moved to places that they choose. How many bad deals have we seen where it was dictated by the player saying he wouldn't re-up with anyone else? Or even reaching free agency and choosing the destination they feel more at home. Atlanta the city is a destination spot for athletes. And as the Falcons have shown, once you get the culture right players will opt to come here. I guess I being older than many of you have seen the exact scenario y'all say can't happen happen twice in Atlanta. I saw the Braves do it first. How it all changed was the culture changed first. The front office started getting good press. Respected coaches were put in place. The game was played the right way and people were treated the right way. Next thing you know the Falcons and Braves became destination franchises.

[Guest]

I don't see the Kings trading their lottery pick in this draft for a vet on a one year deal and at best a mid first round pick. They'd be stupid to do that when Sap could (and most likely would) walk after the season. The Hawks do everything they possibly can to avoid being in the lottery during the season, but when the draft roles around they'll be trying to trade up with their standard "vet + our pick" offer. And just like always, teams will turn them down.

If the player they want is gone why not? They are desperately trying to make the playoffs and are in for another disappointing season. Did they not trade for Rudy Gay who can opt out of his contract after this season?

[Jody23]

If the player they want is gone why not? They are desperately trying to make the playoffs and are in for another disappointing season. Did they not trade for Rudy Gay who can opt out of his contract after this season?

They didn't exactly trade a lottery pick or any other high valued assets for Rudy now did they? The Kings may very well want to make the playoffs, but that's not going to cause them to give up a valuable lottery pick for a one year vet rental.

[Guest]

As far as trading into the lottery is concerned, wouldn't doing so be an indictment on the direction Ferry took this season? If you trade Sap and/or Horford to draft a rookie, won't that likely make the Hawks a non-playoff team?

No - because he couldn't foresee the injuries that would have us at this point in time.How about we trade Sap draft Embiid, we no longer have Saps contract so then Melo decides he's tired of Woody and NY andwants to come to Atlanta and 'voila' - championship team.But since we never get anything good and nobody wants to come here - it won't happen. Edited February 26, 2014 by JayBirdHawk