Anyone besides me just wonder 24/7 about Ferrys direction?

[tbhawksfan]

I don't see the Kings trading their lottery pick in this draft for a vet on a one year deal and at best a mid first round pick. They'd be stupid to do that when Sap could (and most likely would) walk after the season.The Hawks do everything they possibly can to avoid being in the lottery during the season, but when the draft roles around they'll be trying to trade up with their standard "vet + our pick" offer. And just like always, teams will turn them down.

Yep, if the plan was to move Sap, shouda been done before the deadline.

[Jody23]

No - because he couldn't foresee the injuries that would have us at this point in time.How about we trade Sap draft Embiid, we no longer have Saps contract so then Melo decides he's tired of Woody and NY andwants to come to Atlanta and 'voila' - championship team.But since we never get anything good and nobody wants to come here - it won't happen.

Even if we didn't have the injuries, the Hawks would still try to trade into the lottery. And who is gonna trade a shot at Embiid for Paul Millsap? Furthermore, Melo's not going to a rebuild. He's probably LA bound as Kevin Love is also. Edited February 26, 2014 by Jody23

[Guest]

Even if we didn't have the injuries, the Hawks would still try to trade into the lottery. And who is gonna trade a shot at Embiid for Paul Millsap? Furthermore, Melo's not going to a rebuild. He's probably LA bound as Kevin Love is also.

Like I said nobody will want to trade with the Hawks and no Free agents want to come here.

[Jody23]

Like I said nobody will want to trade with the Hawks and no Free agents want to come here.

That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that we don't have the assets to get difference maker type talent.

[AHF]

AHF let's just reason that many of these stars have moved to places that they choose. How many bad deals have we seen where it was dictated by the player saying he wouldn't re-up with anyone else? Or even reaching free agency and choosing the destination they feel more at home. Atlanta the city is a destination spot for athletes. And as the Falcons have shown, once you get the culture right players will opt to come here. I guess I being older than many of you have seen the exact scenario y'all say can't happen happen twice in Atlanta. I saw the Braves do it first. How it all changed was the culture changed first. The front office started getting good press. Respected coaches were put in place. The game was played the right way and people were treated the right way. Next thing you know the Falcons and Braves became destination franchises.

Can't believe what you are leaving out from this picture.

The Falcons became a destination place after drafting Michael Vick #1 overall. That jazzed the fan base, led to multiple playoff appearances, and gave the team tons of favorable press. They built up enough respect as an organization to survive his fall from grace but the turning point was not "culture" it was star power and then culture maintained the respect. (Without having improved the Falcons' culture they would have fallen back off after Vick).

The Braves became a destination after their homegrown stars blossomed. The Braves jumped straight from "irrelevant" to "World Series" by seeing David Justice, Tom Glavine, Ron Gant, John Smoltz, and Steve Avery become highly publicized stars. They got magazine covers, sportscenter highlights, etc. After that injection of star talent and two consecutive World Series appearances, suddenly the Braves were a desirable location for players to come and we were able to land our first big free agent in Greg Maddux. With a team of star talent, the Braves exceptional management maintained that new found status to make Atlanta a premium destination for free agents and still a desirable one today.

I have no doubt that if we landed an elite young talent we could suddenly be an attractive free agent location ala Dwight Howard in Houston after Harden. I have no doubt that a couple of NBA finals appearances could put us on the map.

Until those things happen, though, promoting our great "culture" and our 1st round playoff exit isn't going to attract any elite NBA free agents. I would call it wishful thinking to believe that Korver and Millsap or the #15 pick in the draft is likely to draw us Lebron or some other elite UFA who could jump this team into contention.

So the question returns to how you get that foundational star in place in the first instance and then maximize the talent around him. I don't see us in the running for a foundational star.

[tbhawksfan]

I think our pursuit for a top talent should be in the draft. That's where we got Horf. We really were set up for a great tank last summer. Imagine...; Instead of re-signing JT and Korver, we let them go our trade. We don't sign Sap and we maneuvor into tank position. Season starts and we suck. Ouch, early in the season our only player, save ALL of our recent picks who are brought in to develop, goes down for the season (Horf / hind-sight etc). We are in line for a top pick.

Don't know what the result would have been, but if we want a shot at the top talents, I think the draft is the most viable solution. Too late for this one though.

[HawkItus]

Can't believe what you are leaving out from this picture.

The Falcons became a destination place after drafting Michael Vick #1 overall. That jazzed the fan base, led to multiple playoff appearances, and gave the team tons of favorable press. They built up enough respect as an organization to survive his fall from grace but the turning point was not "culture" it was star power and then culture maintained the respect. (Without having improved the Falcons' culture they would have fallen back off after Vick).

The Braves became a destination after their homegrown stars blossomed. The Braves jumped straight from "irrelevant" to "World Series" by seeing David Justice, Tom Glavine, Ron Gant, John Smoltz, and Steve Avery become highly publicized stars. They got magazine covers, sportscenter highlights, etc. After that injection of star talent and two consecutive World Series appearances, suddenly the Braves were a desirable location for players to come and we were able to land our first big free agent in Greg Maddux. With a team of star talent, the Braves exceptional management maintained that new found status to make Atlanta a premium destination for free agents and still a desirable one today.

I have no doubt that if we landed an elite young talent we could suddenly be an attractive free agent location ala Dwight Howard in Houston after Harden. I have no doubt that a couple of NBA finals appearances could put us on the map.

Until those things happen, though, promoting our great "culture" and our 1st round playoff exit isn't going to attract any elite NBA free agents. I would call it wishful thinking to believe that Korver and Millsap or the #15 pick in the draft is likely to draw us Lebron or some other elite UFA who could jump this team into contention.

So the question returns to how you get that foundational star in place in the first instance and then maximize the talent around him. I don't see us in the running for a foundational star.

No I have to disagree. Before Vick there was Dan Reeves then Arthur Blank for the Falcons. Vick was a by product of the 1998 Super Bowl run and then bad luck with injuries. Dan Reeves made us respectable and place Vick and his people were willing to make a deal with. The Braves had Schurholz and Cox come in and make the savvy trades and player acquisitions that helped us overachieve in 91. Sid Bream and Pendleton. No sir I don't agree with your revisionist history.

[tbhawksfan]

You're both right

[AHF]

No I have to disagree. Before Vick there was Dan Reeves then Arthur Blank for the Falcons. Vick was a by product of the 1998 Super Bowl run and then bad luck with injuries. Dan Reeves made us respectable and place Vick and his people were willing to make a deal with. The Braves had Schurholz and Cox come in and make the savvy trades and player acquisitions that helped us overachieve in 91. Sid Bream and Pendleton. No sir I don't agree with your revisionist history.

You are conflating two separate issues - what leads to a winning team and what leads to the transformation into a desirable NBA free agent destination. The items you mention are not incidental to the Braves' or Falcons' success - they are crucial components. The teams did not become desirable to free agents, however, before the star talent blossomed and free agents saw a franchise that was perceived to have the pieces to win a championship. Reeves did great things with the Falcons prior to Vick but there was no free agent draw to Atlanta until Vick.

Let's look at the Braves because they are the simplest situation. Braves' management had to draft their home grown talent for years prior to them blossoming but the team wasn't a free agent draw until the stars emerged and the trips to the World Series happened. Bream and Pendleton are great examples that you brought up. Neither was a desirable free agent being courted by lots of teams that the Braves signed. Bream was not even given a competitive offer from his current team let alone a legitimate priority for them to resign. His last year in Pittsburgh he hit 15 home runs, had 67 RBIs and scored 39 runs and some of those were near career highs after 8 years in the majors!

Pendleton was coming off a season in which he hit .230. His free agent signing was literally reported after the headlines with the tag line "In other free agent signings..."

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/12/04/sports/baseball-mcgee-signed-by-giants-expos-retain-martinez.html

These guys turned out to be very smart free agent signings but they were not "destination" signings that represented Atlanta suddenly being a desired free agent location. Not even close. The Braves won their first competitive war for a top free agent with Greg Maddux. That was the sign that free agents now viewed the Braves differently.

Please don't mistake my comments for belittling the importance of culture and top management. Those items are critical to success for any team in any sport. The transformation of a team from a undesirable free agent location to one where guys are excited about going, however, isn't directly a product of signing a Cox or a Ferry.

Again, look at the Braves. They signed Bobby Cox to be the GM in 1987. Who were the desirable free agents who were swooning to join the Braves in 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, etc.? No one. It was only after the stars emerged and the team made the World Series that free agents suddenly wanted to go play in Atlanta when given similar offers from other teams.

How did Atlanta make the transition from doormat to winner? Smart management. Give Cox and Schuerholz all the credit -- just like Ferry would deserve all the credit if he pulls off a similar transformation for the Hawks.

How did Atlanta become a desirable free agent destination? By flashing star talent and big wins.

Without the star talent and big wins, the Braves would have been like the Royals (where a certain offspring of the Schuerholtz GM tree went to GM but never made the leap to big wins, stars and free agent desirability despite trying to import the Braves' cultural model).

Ferry can make the Hawks a desirable free agent location but it won't be by signing DMC or getting bounced in the first round of the playoffs even if those things are accomplished by smart management and a positive culture.

[JTB]

Enjoying all of you guys comments in this thread. I guess the real pain is that even looking into the off season most of us still don't see where a major change can happen.I don't feel that ferry is set and ready for this off season for trades or draft and free agency again is just a joke for this franchise.WHAT THE HAWKS CAN DO.... is only two things that come to mind.1. Trade for a star who will become a free agent after the season and do your best to put assets around him so that he may stay (kevin love)2.Throw in the young guys like Dennis and Scott to the wolves and actually start a real rebuild.Most won't like neither but I'm all for either one.

[turnermx]

I dont think houston rockets fans foresaw the Harden trade.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MrMeltdown]

Playing Dennis more is definitely tanking either way. Can't see the greatness gleaming from him and unless you get a top 3 pick I don't see the point.

Longterm Possibilities

Horford/Mus/Bebe

Horford/Scott

Lou/Jenkins

Teague/Dennis/Shelvin

Intermediate

Demarre

Kyle

Millsap

The way I see it we are atleast 4 quality players away from being something worthy of talking about and I don't think Ferry deserves 4 more drafts to prove himself. He needs to make something happen with a longterm piece in FA or trade.

This year we could have made it to the 2nd rd without the Horford injury but when he decided to do nothing after that happen it was going to eventually catch up to us. Even if we get into the lottery a late lottery pick is one of the worst places to be drafting. You will be paying a guy more than the beloved Dennis Schröder from day one. On the flip side, if you can turn that late lotto pick into multiple 1st's it would be good.

Edited February 27, 2014 by MrMeltdown

[Wretch]

You are conflating two separate issues - what leads to a winning team and what leads to the transformation into a desirable NBA free agent destination. The items you mention are not incidental to the Braves' or Falcons' success - they are crucial components. The teams did not become desirable to free agents, however, before the star talent blossomed and free agents saw a franchise that was perceived to have the pieces to win a championship. Reeves did great things with the Falcons prior to Vick but there was no free agent draw to Atlanta until Vick.

Let's look at the Braves because they are the simplest situation. Braves' management had to draft their home grown talent for years prior to them blossoming but the team wasn't a free agent draw until the stars emerged and the trips to the World Series happened. Bream and Pendleton are great examples that you brought up. Neither was a desirable free agent being courted by lots of teams that the Braves signed. Bream was not even given a competitive offer from his current team let alone a legitimate priority for them to resign. His last year in Pittsburgh he hit 15 home runs, had 67 RBIs and scored 39 runs and some of those were near career highs after 8 years in the majors!

Pendleton was coming off a season in which he hit .230. His free agent signing was literally reported after the headlines with the tag line "In other free agent signings..."

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/12/04/sports/baseball-mcgee-signed-by-giants-expos-retain-martinez.html

These guys turned out to be very smart free agent signings but they were not "destination" signings that represented Atlanta suddenly being a desired free agent location. Not even close. The Braves won their first competitive war for a top free agent with Greg Maddux. That was the sign that free agents now viewed the Braves differently.

Please don't mistake my comments for belittling the importance of culture and top management. Those items are critical to success for any team in any sport. The transformation of a team from a undesirable free agent location to one where guys are excited about going, however, isn't directly a product of signing a Cox or a Ferry.

Again, look at the Braves. They signed Bobby Cox to be the GM in 1987. Who were the desirable free agents who were swooning to join the Braves in 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991, etc.? No one. It was only after the stars emerged and the team made the World Series that free agents suddenly wanted to go play in Atlanta when given similar offers from other teams.

How did Atlanta make the transition from doormat to winner? Smart management. Give Cox and Schuerholz all the credit -- just like Ferry would deserve all the credit if he pulls off a similar transformation for the Hawks.

How did Atlanta become a desirable free agent destination? By flashing star talent and big wins.

Without the star talent and big wins, the Braves would have been like the Royals (where a certain offspring of the Schuerholtz GM tree went to GM but never made the leap to big wins, stars and free agent desirability despite trying to import the Braves' cultural model).

Ferry can make the Hawks a desirable free agent location but it won't be by signing DMC or getting bounced in the first round of the playoffs even if those things are accomplished by smart management and a positive culture.

OH...................EM..............GEEE..... How are people so blind that they can't see this? Culture change doesn't happen because you SAY it does. It doesn't happen just because you make smart moves or play smart or you bring in high character/hard working guys.

It happens when by chance you acquire or groom to fruition, core franchise talent that can win big games. Not always all of a sudden, but it is certainly the catalyst. That doesn't make everything else inconsequential. There's a lot of things that put teams over the top and keep them at the top - but you can't really even be thinking about the top until you have the talent to take you there.

THAT kind of talent is what changes the culture and is what makes a franchise appealing. Honestly, the only thing that's really changed with us is the management philosophy.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Wretch

[CrazyEye]

As a german, we see a lot through the Dirk perspective and also the Dallas one ... Cuban stated in some

interviews, that when he took over the franchise his Coach(i believe it was Nelson) ask him, if they should go for the top pick since the mavs was a "bad" team ... And Cuban replied, that they should go for as many wins as possible since winning mentality have to be build ...

And as i see it, he always acted like that, and yes you can say that they drafted Nowe had Nash(i understood that they traded him, even when he came back even stronger after his injury) etc. But the championship was quite surprising, and many people though they already should be in rebuilding mode.