Does the Melo way make sense?

[EazyRoc]

He isn't close to them. Why do people only focus on PPG without looking at how many shots and possessions are needed to put up those numbers? Carmelo25.3 ppg.547 TS% Durant27.2 ppg.599 TS% James27.5 ppg .580 TS% Carmelo is reasonably close in PPG, although obviously not as good as either. He is worlds away in TS%. The difference in Carmelo's scoring efficiency and Durant's is significantly bigger than the difference between Carmelo and Josh Smith: .599 TS% (Durant) - .547 TS% (Carmelo) = .052%.547 TS% (Carmelo) - .511 TS% (Smith) = .036% They aren't even close.

A half of a tenth of a percent is not worlds apart.

[EazyRoc]

He doesn't make his teammates better.

Most guys who aren't PGs, prolific shooters, or dominant post players don't. Kobe Bryant doesn't and he's been considered the best player of the century (arguably).

[benhillboy]

Your leader, your best player, your highest paid player, HAS to set the tone defensively. No if, ands, or buts about it. Pippen and Jordan, Duncan, Olajuwon, KG, Kobe and his Bigs. Dirk was an outlier because he was surrounded by outstanding defenders at their position (Shawn Marion is one of the most underrated players of his era but I digress). As phenomenal as Durant is, I just don't see the size, strength, and attention to detail on that end to get it done in June. Melo is a gifted rebounder, but he has never nor will he ever be as passionate on defense as he is about jab stepping, driving with reckless abandon, and indiscriminately hoisting funky looking threes. Show me some losse ball dives, hard fouls, tough man D contributing to a clock violation, or chase down blocks from Melo and I'll retort some, cause I havent. The Bulls talk is the craziest I've heard. I could see Thibodeau DNP-ing Melo for awful effort on D, you think he's gonna endorse a max deal?All him coming here would do is fill some seats. The offense we run is light years ahead of what Melo knows. All players must be involved in scoring so they become involved in everything else. You can't blame guys for standing around and watching Melo miss on offense, come back on D and be totally disinterested on who picks up who. It's basic team basketball psychology. As far as the Kobe example, yeah, he sh&tted on a lot of his teammates (who were indeed garbage, Smush Parker?), but when a guy is annually First Team All Defense along with being a Top Flight Scorer, it's cool.

Edited March 6, 2014 by benhillboy

[EazyRoc]

@AHFLeBron, Durant, and Kobe all consider Carmelo to be the toughest guy to guard in the NBA.

[Camouflage]

Carroll is the poor mans Carmelo.

[AHF]

@AHFLeBron, Durant, and Kobe all consider Carmelo to be the toughest guy to guard in the NBA.

He isn't close to the toughest to guard, though. You can spout off generalities about how great a shooter players think Dwayne Wade is but that doesn't make him a good 3pt shooter. The numbers show that clearly.

Carmelo is closer to Josh Smith as a scorer than he is to Durant for their careers. He isn't on their level and it couldn't be clearer that he takes more shots to score fewer points:

Carmelo 19.7 FGA/G; 25.3 PPG

Durant 19.0 FGA/G; 27.2 PPG

What about that shows that Carmelo is "tougher to guard"?

[Admin]

He isn't close to the toughest to guard, though. You can spout off generalities about how great a shooter players think Dwayne Wade is but that doesn't make him a good 3pt shooter. The numbers show that clearly.

Carmelo is closer to Josh Smith as a scorer than he is to Durant for their careers. He isn't on their level and it couldn't be clearer that he takes more shots to score fewer points:

Carmelo 19.7 FGA/G; 25.3 PPG

Durant 19.0 FGA/G; 27.2 PPG

What about that shows that Carmelo is "tougher to guard"?

I've heard Coach K and Boeheim both say that Carmelo is basically unguardable so I'm not sure how you can get much tougher to guard than that.

Where Carmelo is the best scoring wise is that he can score on you from absolutely anywhere on the floor and neither Lebron nor KD can say that. Lebron is pretty darn good but he's not the same level of shooter that Carmelo is and KD can't back his man down in the paint and score on him with strength.

[Ruckus]

Have u watched him play? He is a complete ISO player...people complained about Joe...Melo is joe x10.

I somewhat agree with you but it's safe to say he is JoeX10 in terms of talent also.

Have u watched him play? He is a complete ISO player...people complained about Joe...Melo is joe x10.

I somewhat agree with you but it's safe to say he is JoeX10 in terms of talent also.

[Ruckus]

Not sure why my post posted twice but feel free to call me Johnny Two Times. 'I'm gonna go get the papers. Get the papers'Not sure why my post posted twice but feel free to call me Johnny Two Times. 'I'm gonna go get the papers. Get the papers'

[Admin]

I somewhat agree with you but it's safe to say he is JoeX10 in terms of talent also.I somewhat agree with you but it's safe to say he is JoeX10 in terms of talent also.

By posting it twice I'd say that you more than somewhat agree, wouldn't you somewhat agree?

[Admin]

Not sure why my post posted twice but feel free to call me Johnny Two Times. 'I'm gonna go get the papers. Get the papers'Not sure why my post posted twice but feel free to call me Johnny Two Times. 'I'm gonna go get the papers. Get the papers'

Probably because I'm working on the system right now trying to track down 1 more bug that's been well "bugging" me for months now that somehow keeps coming back.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Melo is an elite level offensive talent that is forced to take a ton of bad shots because of the team around him. If you ever watched the dude, he hardly ever starts out a game cold. He gets it going by killing people in the post, with spot up jumpers, and by getting to the FT line.

The dude would be having an MVP type of season, if his teammates were worth a damn.

Melo ranks in the top 30 in the league on points per play via Isolation, Post Ups, and as the Pick and Roll "roll" man. The only thing he's not highly proficient at, that Lebron and Durant excel at, is scoring as the Pick and Roll Ball handler.

As I've said before, Melo has rarely played with another All-Star type of talent that he can play off of . . or a guy who can play off of him. If Noah is successful with recruiting him to the Bulls, plus they get Rose back . . damn.

[Guest]

He isn't close to the toughest to guard, though. You can spout off generalities about how great a shooter players think Dwayne Wade is but that doesn't make him a good 3pt shooter. The numbers show that clearly. Carmelo is closer to Josh Smith as a scorer than he is to Durant for their careers. He isn't on their level and it couldn't be clearer that he takes more shots to score fewer points: Carmelo 19.7 FGA/G; 25.3 PPGDurant 19.0 FGA/G; 27.2 PPG What about that shows that Carmelo is "tougher to guard"?

You may not like Melo's game in general but mentioning him in the same breath as Josh Smith and shooting is assinine. I have definitely heard Kobe and others say Melo is the toughest player to guard because of the mirriad of ways he can score from all over the court - mid range, long range, put it in the floor and drive, stop on a dime and shoot from three, post up, as Kobe said he is a load on the block. He may not be as efficient as Durant and others but...Scoring is easy for him - the rest of him game leaves something to be desired.

[MaceCase]

Meh, Melo is bar none the most versatile pure scorer in the league but it doesn't mean much when he continuously settles into only one part of his arsenal for long stretches.......on his own.

I don't buy the lack of talent around him either, you can focus on this year's squad and record but many were calling Woody a better coach than George Karl just last year for running the same shit he's running this year but getting different results both out of Melo and this set of scrubs. Heck, a certain individual even claimed Chris Copeland to be better than Kyle but now Melo's teammates all of a sudden aren't worth a damn? Were Felton, Prigioni, and STAT just that damn good the year before? Was losing Kidd, Novak and Copeland worse than losing Kobe? I digress.

Andre Miller, Allen Iverson, Chauncey Billups, Ty Lawson, JR Smith, Arron Afflalo, Kenyon Martin, Nene, Marcus Camby, Birdman, Tyson Chandler.......This isn't talent to folks? What separates the Lebrons and Durants from the Melos is that Lebron and Durant actually separate themselves from their teammates.... no matter who their teammates are. People talk about the Westbrooks, Hardens, Wades and Boshs helping but Lebron and Durant are doubling and often trippling those guys' outputs.

Melo rarely outdistances his second fiddle and was doubled up in win shares by both Chauncey and Nene in the only other year he's made it out of the 1st round. That lends credence (not that you really need any more at this point) to the argument that your team just won't go anywhere of note with Melo as your #1. If he goes to Chicago then great, he'll be perfectly placed behind the #1 in Rose and #2A in Noah, where he needs to be.

[EazyRoc]

He isn't close to the toughest to guard, though. You can spout off generalities about how great a shooter players think Dwayne Wade is but that doesn't make him a good 3pt shooter. The numbers show that clearly. Carmelo is closer to Josh Smith as a scorer than he is to Durant for their careers. He isn't on their level and it couldn't be clearer that he takes more shots to score fewer points: Carmelo 19.7 FGA/G; 25.3 PPGDurant 19.0 FGA/G; 27.2 PPG What about that shows that Carmelo is "tougher to guard"?

LeBron James, Kevin Durant, and Kobe Bryant are on record saying Carmelo is the toughest player to guard. Maybe that wasn't clear the first time, but its their opinions. This is coming out of their mouths, not mine.

[AHF]

You may not like Melo's game in general but mentioning him in the same breath as Josh Smith and shooting is assinine. I have definitely heard Kobe and others say Melo is the toughest player to guard because of the mirriad of ways he can score from all over the court - mid range, long range, put it in the floor and drive, stop on a dime and shoot from three, post up, as Kobe said he is a load on the block. He may not be as efficient as Durant and others but...Scoring is easy for him - the rest of him game leaves something to be desired.

I recognize people give some nice quotes about Carmelo like they did about Allen Iverson but that doesn't mean either was nearly as good a scorer as Durant or James.MaceCase laid out the history of talent that Carmelo lovers like to pretend doesn't measure up to early Durant or James in CLE talent.The comparison with Josh was intentional because it is ridiculous, right? Josh isn't nearly as good and his production doesn't measure up. Melo is clearly better. But the difference between Durant and Melo is bigger than the gap between Josh and Carmelo as for scoring efficiency. James and Durant are very clearly on another level both as scoters and for overall play.

[EazyRoc]

I recognize people give some nice quotes about Carmelo like they did about Allen Iverson but that doesn't mean either was nearly as good a scorer as Durant or James.MaceCase laid out the history of talent that Carmelo lovers like to pretend doesn't measure up to early Durant or James in CLE talent.The comparison with Josh was intentional because it is ridiculous, right? Josh isn't nearly as good and his production doesn't measure up. Melo is clearly better. But the difference between Durant and Melo is bigger than the gap between Josh and Carmelo as for scoring efficiency. James and Durant are very clearly on another level both as scoters and for overall play.

"People" ? No try the best players in this era. The same ones you swear are in a league by themselves are willing to concede that Carmelo is an extremely talented scorer and their toughest covers. For what it's worth, Kobe doesn't do nice quotes. If its their word against yours, most people will probably side with the NBA superstars.

[AHF]

Lebron compared Jack Taylor to Wilt and Kobe. Are we really going to argue media quotes over on the court production?http://sports.ca.msn.com/headlines/lebron-praises-138-point-scorer-3The whole point is that production speaks louder than cheap quotes.Isn't the proof in the pudding when Durant is the top gun on the Olympic team?

Edited March 7, 2014 by AHF

[Admin]

Lebron compared Jack Taylor to Wilt and Kobe. Are we really going to argue media quotes over on the court production?http://sports.ca.msn.com/headlines/lebron-praises-138-point-scorer-3The whole point is that production speaks louder than cheap quotes.Isn't the proof in the pudding when Durant is the top gun on the Olympic team?

Interesting that when I pointed out that Lebron's TS% average in Cleveland matches what Carmelo is putting up the past 2 years that you are ignoring that. I'll give you that KD's has been better but I'd like to see him as the first and second option on his team over a long period of time and see what his numbers are. My guess is they would dip like Lebron's were most of his years in Cleveland.

[Admin]

Meh, Melo is bar none the most versatile pure scorer in the league but it doesn't mean much when he continuously settles into only one part of his arsenal for long stretches.......on his own.

I don't buy the lack of talent around him either, you can focus on this year's squad and record but many were calling Woody a better coach than George Karl just last year for running the same shit he's running this year but getting different results both out of Melo and this set of scrubs. Heck, a certain individual even claimed Chris Copeland to be better than Kyle but now Melo's teammates all of a sudden aren't worth a damn? Were Felton, Prigioni, and STAT just that damn good the year before? Was losing Kidd, Novak and Copeland worse than losing Kobe? I digress.

Andre Miller, Allen Iverson, Chauncey Billups, Ty Lawson, JR Smith, Arron Afflalo, Kenyon Martin, Nene, Marcus Camby, Birdman, Tyson Chandler.......This isn't talent to folks? What separates the Lebrons and Durants from the Melos is that Lebron and Durant actually separate themselves from their teammates.... no matter who their teammates are. People talk about the Westbrooks, Hardens, Wades and Boshs helping but Lebron and Durant are doubling and often trippling those guys' outputs.

Melo rarely outdistances his second fiddle and was doubled up in win shares by both Chauncey and Nene in the only other year he's made it out of the 1st round. That lends credence (not that you really need any more at this point) to the argument that your team just won't go anywhere of note with Melo as your #1. If he goes to Chicago then great, he'll be perfectly placed behind the #1 in Rose and #2A in Noah, where he needs to be.

Really, you're using those as examples of guys that Carmelo played with who could take the pressure off of him offensively? None of them are anywhere near the level of Westbrook, Bosh or Wade, considering that AI was pretty much a shell of his former self by that point.