Could Millsap Play SF in Atlanta?

[Ruckus]

Absolutely, we would definitely be ECF contenders off the bat. Maybe not a bonafide title contender, but to get a big body to give us rebounds, a post game, a defensive anchor, and keep legit centers off of our All-Star forwards is crucial. The Hawks are 22nd in team defense and are perennial bottom feeders when it comes to total rebounds. All of the top teams rebound the ball well and a rebound means one of two things: Ending your opponent's possession or extending your own; both favorable outcomes.

I will say this... We have ZERO chance at getting out of the second round barring LBJ coming here with Horford at 5.

I agree that we need a big. I'm just not that sold on Hawes. And I def don't think adding him exclusively will turn us into contenders. The idea of adding him AND someone like Stevenson is intriguing though. While Lance is raw and will probably be overpaid, his attack first intensity and fearlessness would be a welcome addition. And Teague is as inconsistent as they come. That is a HUGE issue with us wanting to be contenders. I keep hoping he can be fixed but he has major turnover issues and thin skin which is the last thing you want from a PG on an elite team.

[MaceCase]

Detroit sports a 3 big lineup with 2 "defensive anchors".....and are bottom of the league in defense. These all big lineups tend to fall apart when you introduce a simple pick and roll and test a guys ability or resolve to get around a screen.

Sap's shooting ability is predicated on the fact that bigmen typically don't like and aren't schemed to guard the perimeter against him. That is no longer an advantage when you have an actual wing player who is used to guarding on the perimeter guarding you instead.

Does Hawes and Horf space the floor enough to allow Sap to work more exclusively from the post though? Of course but there are a hundred easy ways to counter that with easy strategies and rotations. This isn't 1900s football where coaches were dumbfounded on how to defend a forward pass, simple lineup tweaks are not the difference between a middle of the pack team and a contender.

[hazer]

So adding Spencer Hawes is the secret weapon we have all been waiting for? Going to transform us into an instant contender? I see.

No. PSSSHHHRRR87 named Hawes, not me. Not exactly one of my favorites, but Hawes/Horf/Sap is better than Horf/Sap/DMC.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I like Hawes cause he fits what Bud and Ferry are trying to accomplish. This offense is all about ball movement, floor spacing, and shooters. Hawes is a shooter that can hit the three, at 7'1" mind you. He also can dribble the ball well for someone of his stature and is an excellent passer. The best part about that lineup is that the average age of our starters is only 26 years old. Hawes, Teague, and Stephenson still haven't filled out completely and their better games are still ahead of them.

Detroit sports a 3 big lineup with 2 "defensive anchors".....and are bottom of the league in defense. These all big lineups tend to fall apart when you introduce a simple pick and roll and test a guys ability or resolve to get around a screen.

Sap's shooting ability is predicated on the fact that bigmen typically don't like and aren't schemed to guard the perimeter against him. That is no longer an advantage when you have an actual wing player who is used to guarding on the perimeter guarding you instead.

Does Hawes and Horf space the floor enough to allow Sap to work more exclusively from the post though? Of course but there are a hundred easy ways to counter that with easy strategies and rotations. This isn't 1900s football where coaches were dumbfounded on how to defend a forward pass, simple lineup tweaks are not the difference between a middle of the pack team and a contender.

Although I do agree with some of what is said here, the whole NBA knows that the Pistons are the dumb, poorly coached team with ZERO shooters. Their best shooter is Kyle Singler. Detroit's entire offense is based on ISO-Jennings, 2nd chance points, and the off-chance that Osh hits a three. Our roster would be LOADED with high BBIQ shooters that can space the floor for their team mates with Bud at the helm. Detroit is a miserable franchise from the top-down right now as opposed to the up and coming Hawks. Plus, we have the better bench of the two. In Detroit, the paint is crowded. In Atlanta, Stephenson and Teague would have lanes to attack because of the excellent shooting of our big guys. Millsap dribbles the ball better than Smoove, so he is a better attacking forward... And Sap did well vs. Minnesota at SF with Brewer on him and as already said, Sap guarded LBJ when the Heat/Cavs played Utah. And if Sap at 3 doesn't work, then you flip him at the deadline.

And simple lineup tweaks may not make us instant-o-tenders, but ask LMA, Duncan, or Monroe if their careers would be better at PF or center. All three of those guys have benefited from being moved to full-time PF. Heck, all the Blazers' did last offseason is add Robin Lopez to the starting lineup and now they are 5th in the West and 18 games above .500. Just cause a guy is 6'10"+ doesn't make him a center. I believe Horford's career would improve drastically if he was at PF and so would the Hawks.

[Guest]

Can Hawes rebound and play defense - what does his around the basket game look like?

[MaceCase]

I like Hawes cause he fits what Bud and Ferry are trying to accomplish. This offense is all about ball movement, floor spacing, and shooters. Hawes is a shooter that can hit the three, at 7'1" mind you. He also can dribble the ball well for someone of his stature and is an excellent passer. The best part about that lineup is that the average age of our starters is only 26 years old. Hawes, Teague, and Stephenson still haven't filled out completely and their better games are still ahead of them.

Although I do agree with some of what is said here, the whole NBA knows that the Pistons are the dumb, poorly coached team with ZERO shooters. Their best shooter is Kyle Singler. Detroit's entire offense is based on ISO-Jennings, 2nd chance points, and the off-chance that Osh hits a three. Our roster would be LOADED with high BBIQ shooters that can space the floor for their team mates with Bud at the helm. Detroit is a miserable franchise from the top-down right now as opposed to the up and coming Hawks. Plus, we have the better bench of the two. In Detroit, the paint is crowded. In Atlanta, Stephenson and Teague would have lanes to attack because of the excellent shooting of our big guys. Millsap dribbles the ball better than Smoove, so he is a better attacking forward... And Sap did well vs. Minnesota at SF with Brewer on him and as already said, Sap guarded LBJ when the Heat/Cavs played Utah. And if Sap at 3 doesn't work, then you flip him at the deadline.

And simple lineup tweaks may not make us instant-o-tenders, but ask LMA, Duncan, or Monroe if their careers would be better at PF or center. All three of those guys have benefited from being moved to full-time PF. Heck, all the Blazers' did last offseason is add Robin Lopez to the starting lineup and now they are 5th in the West and 18 games above .500. Just cause a guy is 6'10"+ doesn't make him a center. I believe Horford's career would improve drastically if he was at PF and so would the Hawks.

1) You keep talking about offense. Obviously the Josh at SF experiment has failed offensively in Detroit because they have no one in their frontcourt that can shoot beyond 8 feet but this does not excuse why they are so bad defensively though considering that by far and away they have a shot blocking and rebounding beast at center and then Josh too which is more than Al, Sap or Hawes can boast on defense. You're making the same mistake Dumars made, you see a guy in a specific matchup and think you can extrapolate from there and play them fulltime at that position. Sap/Josh can defend the Lebron's and Melo's in their iso dominant offenses but what happens when they run those guys off of screens or utilize the most used playstyle in the NBA, the pick and roll? This is what Detroit has had to suffer through, watching teams pick and choose their matchups on picks and screens and then running backdoors on guys that aren't used to defending guys who can roam off ball further than 20 feet from the basket. You're building a team based on a few matchups and then on only one side of the ball and then ignoring everything and everyone else

2) Aldridge has never played at center for any considerable amount of time, just because the guy next to him is 6'9" does not make him or means he can only play PF. Hickson was their starting center all last season, Aldridge has not moved anywhere with the addition of Lopez. All Lopez has done for Portland is give them a better defender at C than Hickson. Their record has improved because they've been healthier than usual, their bench is deeper and oh, Damian Lillard is in his second year and already an All Star. The injury bug has started to hit them again and they have characteristically swooned since their hot start to the season when they were 1st in the West, that's as big a drop in the standings as the Hawks BTW. Duncan on the other hand has masqueraded at "PF" for a decade now. You just think it's more believable with Splitter next to him than with Bonner, Blair and Diaw. Then Monroe has been considerably worse at PF than he was at C, Andre Drummond has single handedly killed his value and development. These are all poor examples.

3) There is no way in hell the Hawks can afford both Hawes and Stephenson unless either of Al/Sap/Jeffrey are moved. These are both guys that will look to ink contracts near or starting at 8mil a year.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

1) You keep talking about offense. Obviously the Josh at SF experiment has failed offensively in Detroit because they have no one in their frontcourt that can shoot beyond 8 feet but this does not excuse why they are so bad defensively though considering that by far and away they have a shot blocking and rebounding beast at center and then Josh too which is more than Al, Sap or Hawes can boast on defense. You're making the same mistake Dumars made, you see a guy in a specific matchup and think you can extrapolate from there and play them fulltime at that position. Sap/Josh can defend the Lebron's and Melo's in their iso dominant offenses but what happens when they run those guys off of screens or utilize the most used playstyle in the NBA, the pick and roll? This is what Detroit has had to suffer through, watching teams pick and choose their matchups on picks and screens and then running backdoors on guys that aren't used to defending guys who can roam off ball further than 20 feet from the basket. You're building a team based on a few matchups and then on only one side of the ball and then ignoring everything and everyone else

By Detroit-way, I meant 2004 Pistons, but w/e.

I am concerned about Sap on defense, especially vs. more athletic SF's, but I believe trying Sap at 3 is worth a shot. This would be a completely different argument if Sap wasn't already on the roster. Would I sign Sap in the offseason to play SF? No, but since he's already here and something needs to be done about Horford, why not?

I am not making the same mistake that Dumars has made which I'll get to later and I only mentioned LBJ because he is the best player in the NBA. If Sap can guard LBJ, then why would I be worried about him guarding the Brewers and Websters of the league? I am putting together a roster that gives our guys advantages. I am building a team that plays guys to their strengths. And the PnR will defended the same way its always defended.

2) Aldridge has never played at center for any considerable amount of time, just because the guy next to him is 6'9" does not make him or means he can only play PF. Hickson was their starting center all last season, Aldridge has not moved anywhere with the addition of Lopez. All Lopez has done for Portland is give them a better defender at C than Hickson. Their record has improved because they've been healthier than usual, their bench is deeper and oh, Damian Lillard is in his second year and already an All Star. The injury bug has started to hit them again and they have characteristically swooned since their hot start to the season when they were 1st in the West, that's as big a drop in the standings as the Hawks BTW. Duncan on the other hand has masqueraded at "PF" for a decade now. You just think it's more believable with Splitter next to him than with Bonner, Blair and Diaw. Then Monroe has been considerably worse at PF than he was at C, Andre Drummond has single handedly killed his value and development. These are all poor examples.

The point I am making here is that Aldridge and Duncan excel because they play the position that they are tailored for. Do you think that they would have had as successful careers playing center? And your comments on Lopez only strengthen the argument for getting a center and moving Horford to 4. Horford and Aldridge are similar players. When you look at Horford's game, do you see more center or power forward? I believe Horford would put up LMA type numbers if moved to 4 full time.

As for Monroe and the Dumars-constucted Pistons, the Pistons are constructed horribly. For Monroe to work at 4 in Detroit, they need consistent shooters that Korver-deadly from 3 at the 1, 2, and 3 and because Detroit does not have shooters, defenses tend to just suffocate the lane and force Detroit into jump shots, so I really don't see this season a good measure for if Monroe at 4 is a failure. As for defensive side, defense starts with coaching and work. It's not that the Pistons just get flat out dominated; you have to want to play defense. They have saloon doors for a backcourt and are constantly out of position. I'm really interested to see this team next year once Gores cans Dumars and brings in a great coach. Izzo and Hollins have been floating around for a few weeks now. If Coach Bud/Vogel/Pop/Stotts/Hornacek was coaching the Pistons, do you think that'd be this bad? And I hate mentioning culture, but... Defense has to be built into a team's DNA.

3) There is no way in hell the Hawks can afford both Hawes and Stephenson unless either of Al/Sap/Jeffrey are moved. These are both guys that will look to ink contracts near or starting at 8mil a year.

I have mentioned that Lou and Jenkins would have to be dumped to make this work. We will have about $10 mil in cap this offseason + dumping Lou and Jenkins come up to $17 mil. Doubt Indy or Cleveland interested in either though. If I had to choose, I'd take Hawes and keep Korver a starter.

Edited March 28, 2014 by PSSSHHHRRR87

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Absolutely, we would definitely be ECF contenders off the bat. Maybe not a bonafide title contender, but to get a big body to give us rebounds, a post game, a defensive anchor, and keep legit centers off of our All-Star forwards is crucial. The Hawks are 22nd in team defense and are perennial bottom feeders when it comes to total rebounds. All of the top teams rebound the ball well and a rebound means one of two things: Ending your opponent's possession or extending your own; both favorable outcomes.

I will say this... We have ZERO chance at getting out of the second round barring LBJ coming here with Horford at 5.

People hated overpaying for Jefferson, a guy who is a legit center, low post beast, and defensive rebounding monster . . . but are in love with Spencer Hawes?

Wow.

The GM had his chance to get a real good center, but couldn't wait to make Kyle and Sap his first signings. So we get what we get, when it comes to helping out Horford in the middle.

[Guest]

I am not enamored with Spencer Hawes. If you are looking for a center to spread the floor we can get that with Pero and Moose. If we cannot get a low post center I would like a more rugged Center who plays closer to the paint, more defense and rebounding. A younger, slightly taller version of this Elton Brand would be fine - plays defense, rebounds and can hit that freethrow jumper. With Al and Sap we would have enough offense - again defense and rebounding please.

[yungsta]

spencer hawes is softer, worst defensively, and gets pushed around more than AL does at center despite being 7,1. I am one of the posters that isnt fond of AL playing center full time but I would rather keep AL at center than have spencer hawes be our center.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Hawes has a nice baby hook in the post and is only 25 so he still has some filling out to do. He doesn't just hang out in the mid-range like Horf all the time. I like Spencer because he can shoot and handles the ball well. He can play defense and does rebound as well as Monroe. Detroit won't let Monroe leave just yet. Only other real option is Gortat, but he's already at 30, not a guy we need to build with. Then again, Ferry did give a 32 year old Korver a four-year deal. I'm only mentioning Hawes because he is Danny's type of guy. I have mentioned us being 22nd in team defense and perennial bottom feeders in total rebounds, but Joakim Noah or Marc Gasol isn't available for a quick, sure fix. Gortat, Monroe, Hawes, or draft is what we have to sift through if want to move Horf to 4. Trade for Asik, maybe but then means Sap is likely gone. Bebe or Muscala are not real options to start for us.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MaceCase]

By Detroit-way, I meant 2004 Pistons, but w/e.

I am concerned about Sap on defense, especially vs. more athletic SF's, but I believe trying Sap at 3 is worth a shot. This would be a completely different argument if Sap wasn't already on the roster. Would I sign Sap in the offseason to play SF? No, but since he's already here and something needs to be done about Horford, why not?

I am not making the same mistake that Dumars has made which I'll get to later and I only mentioned LBJ because he is the best player in the NBA. If Sap can guard LBJ, then why would I be worried about him guarding the Brewers and Websters of the league? I am putting together a roster that gives our guys advantages. I am building a team that plays guys to their strengths. And the PnR will defended the same way its always defended.

Uhm no. You are not building a team that plays guys to their strengths because you are specifically moving two players out from the positions they've had the greatest success at based on a single matchup. That's your mistake, you think "oh he looked good against Lebron" that you now think that he'll look good against Durant, or George or Pierce because all these guys play the exact same way right? Lebron and the Heat are just the prototype that every team and player play like. Let's also just ignore that besides that 46 point explosion game that Sap had in 2010 that Lebron has averaged 33 points on 60% shooting in the 6 games since against Sap. Yea, that's some mighty fine defense there, holding a guy to both his career high in points and FG%.

You are making the exact same mistake that Dumars made because you believe if a guy can do one thing then he should be able to do a million things, overate that one time you think he did great, and then ignore everything else. Yea, just play the PnR the same where a 250lb PF can now maintain contact on and navigate a screen as well as a 220lb wing that has done it most their life. What needs to be done about Al is that he has to go back in time and become a more talented player to justify teams building around him.

The point I am making here is that Aldridge and Duncan excel because they play the position that they are tailored for. Do you think that they would have had as successful careers playing center? And your comments on Lopez only strengthen the argument for getting a center and moving Horford to 4. Horford and Aldridge are similar players. When you look at Horford's game, do you see more center or power forward? I believe Horford would put up LMA type numbers if moved to 4 full time.

As for Monroe and the Dumars-constucted Pistons, the Pistons are constructed horribly. For Monroe to work at 4 in Detroit, they need consistent shooters that Korver-deadly from 3 at the 1, 2, and 3 and because Detroit does not have shooters, defenses tend to just suffocate the lane and force Detroit into jump shots, so I really don't see this season a good measure for if Monroe at 4 is a failure. As for defensive side, defense starts with coaching and work. It's not that the Pistons just get flat out dominated; you have to want to play defense. They have saloon doors for a backcourt and are constantly out of position. I'm really interested to see this team next year once Gores cans Dumars and brings in a great coach. Izzo and Hollins have been floating around for a few weeks now. If Coach Bud/Vogel/Pop/Stotts/Hornacek was coaching the Pistons, do you think that'd be this bad? And I hate mentioning culture, but... Defense has to be built into a team's DNA.

You really think the difference between Al becoming a 23ppg scorer in this league is the position he plays...................Wow. No hope for you there. Simply attaching "PF" to his name on the boxscore is going to make him no longer have the offensive grace of a fish out of water and all the PFs in the league that weigh 150lbs less than the Cs he's faced will cower from his jab jab jumper move.

Your examples suck because one plays C and the other plays PF but both are still far more talented than Al ever was or ever will be. You are trying to draw support from something that has zero to do with your point. Their careers haven't benefited because of the positions they play, their careers have benefited because they are actually damn good players. Aldridge was dropping over 20 a game long before Lopez got there, Lopez did not allow his game to explode besides the fact he's a much worse rebounder than Hickson leaving Aldridge more opportunities than he had before on the boards. He is not a similar type of player to Al in the least, he doesn't require 70% of his offense be created for him, he can create his own shot out to 22 feet and oh yea, can use his left too. Where the hell does someone get the notion that LMA and Al are the same?

How can you blame Monroe sucking at PF and base it on team construction but then somehow the team becomes entirely different when he plays C and succeeds? Am I missing something here? Your argument was that he was better at PF which is false but now you are trying to paint it as they need revamp their team and coaching to make him work as a PF.....when they don't need any of that when they just slide him over to C. His rook and sophomore seasons at C, great. His 3rd season at C, great until they forced Lawrence Frank to start playing Drummond more and all of a sudden his production starts to take a dip at PF. No, No. Monroe is the perfect example of a player like Al whom you think is better physically suited for PF but is actually more productive at C.

I have mentioned that Lou and Jenkins would have to be dumped to make this work. We will have about $10 mil in cap this offseason + dumping Lou and Jenkins come up to $17 mil. Doubt Indy or Cleveland interested in either though. If I had to choose, I'd take Hawes and keep Korver a starter.

You do understand that that 8 million figure is starting point for negotiations with said players? That's the bottom amount they'd likely accept as top free agents in a market that features multiple teams that can offer them up to the point of max deals. You've suggested attaching god knows how many assets to clear two negative value prospect in order to free up the minimum amount possible to make your roster a reality.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Uhm no. You are not building a team that plays guys to their strengths because you are specifically moving two players out from the positions they've had the greatest success at based on a single matchup. That's your mistake, you think "oh he looked good against Lebron" that you now think that he'll look good against Durant, or George or Pierce because all these guys play the exact same way right? Lebron and the Heat are just the prototype that every team and player play like. Let's also just ignore that besides that 46 point explosion game that Sap had in 2010 that Lebron has averaged 33 points on 60% shooting in the 6 games since against Sap. Yea, that's some mighty fine defense there, holding a guy to both his career high in points and FG%.

Uhm yeah. I'm not saying that just because Sap looked good against LeBron that means he'll be great a SF and I AM making a team that gives Al and Sap advantages. Both Al and Sap are undersized for their current positions and, although they are both All-Stars at those positions, they would both benefit having guys more their size guarding them and having to guard. Both get beat up constantly in Atlanta due not having a big body out on the floor with them to keep the Hibbert's and Gasol's from doubling them or towering over them or crowding the lane. What we have is a 3pt-shooting Pero and a 6'8" Brand, neither keep the 7-footers from turning Sap's post game into a joke. Most of his shots around the hoop for Sap are acrobatic layups trying to avoid the prototype centers/PF's from blocking his shot and results with him ending on his keister. But put a Brewer, Deng, or the average 6'8", 230 lbs SF on Sap and watch the post game improve. Watch everything improve. Horford draws out the PF, Hawes or whoever mans the center, and Sap has his way with opposing SF's. Sap is stronger and bigger than 95% of SF's in the league. It'll be similar to Horford trying to defend Dwight. The prototypical SF may be quicker, but Sap has good lateral quickness and fights through screens well. Am I thinking that Sap will shut down opposing SF's? No, of course not, but do I believe that he can hang with them and contain an opposing SF to his averages and be successful on offense vs. said SF's? Hell yeah.

And I am not against flipping Sap for an actual SF, but I also support trying Sap at 3 before we do.

You are making the exact same mistake that Dumars made because you believe if a guy can do one thing then he should be able to do a million things, overate that one time you think he did great, and then ignore everything else. Yea, just play the PnR the same where a 250lb PF can now maintain contact on and navigate a screen as well as a 220lb wing that has done it most their life. What needs to be done about Al is that he has to go back in time and become a more talented player to justify teams building around him.

You really think the difference between Al becoming a 23ppg scorer in this league is the position he plays...................Wow. No hope for you there. Simply attaching "PF" to his name on the boxscore is going to make him no longer have the offensive grace of a fish out of water and all the PFs in the league that weigh 150lbs less than the Cs he's faced will cower from his jab jab jumper move.

Your examples suck because one plays C and the other plays PF but both are still far more talented than Al ever was or ever will be. You are trying to draw support from something that has zero to do with your point. Their careers haven't benefited because of the positions they play, their careers have benefited because they are actually damn good players. Aldridge was dropping over 20 a game long before Lopez got there, Lopez did not allow his game to explode besides the fact he's a much worse rebounder than Hickson leaving Aldridge more opportunities than he had before on the boards. He is not a similar type of player to Al in the least, he doesn't require 70% of his offense be created for him, he can create his own shot out to 22 feet and oh yea, can use his left too. Where the hell does someone get the notion that LMA and Al are the same?

How can you blame Monroe sucking at PF and base it on team construction but then somehow the team becomes entirely different when he plays C and succeeds? Am I missing something here? Your argument was that he was better at PF which is false but now you are trying to paint it as they need revamp their team and coaching to make him work as a PF.....when they don't need any of that when they just slide him over to C. His rook and sophomore seasons at C, great. His 3rd season at C, great until they forced Lawrence Frank to start playing Drummond more and all of a sudden his production starts to take a dip at PF. No, No. Monroe is the perfect example of a player like Al whom you think is better physically suited for PF but is actually more productive at C.

I am NOT making the same mistake as Dumars. Dumars has constructed a team by having two starters playing outside of their strengths and not making adjustments to make it work. He has placed Smith at SF, a position that requires a player to be well-rounded in all aspects of the game. Josh is elite defensively, but can't shoot or dribble and refuses to run set plays. For Monroe to work at 4, they need a guy that can shoot the ball and drive the lane playing SF. During the period that Mo Cheeks benched Josh in favor for Kyle Singler and Rodney Stuckey starting at 2, the Drummond/Monroe tandem worked very well. I thought that the worse thing Dumars ever did was trade Billups for Iverson, but now I believe it was signing Josh for SF and that will be the nail in the coffin for him. You replace Smoove with Deng and the whole thing works. Is Monroe probably better suited for the center position? Yes, because he isn't the midrange shooter that Horford, LMA, Pau, or Love is and with Drummond starting, it has crowded him out of his home. Is Monroe at 4 a disaster? Not with strong shooters around him.

The team I am constructing plays guys in positions that they would excel at. Sap is the most well-rounded player on the team and can shoot. Horford has his midrange shot and with smaller guys guarding him, he could become more effective in the post too. I'm not asking a poor shooting PF to play SF or an undersized Horford to defend Dwight here. I'd rather Horford matched up to LMA as opposed to Lopez. And yes, I do believe Al becoming a better player is him playing the position he is tailored for and really don't understand why that is so surprising. It's common sense. Rodney Stuckey at PG, he struggled. Rodney Stuckey now playing 2 guard, big improvement. Carmelo & LeBron are much better at SF as opposed to them being played at PF. Bosh is better at PF than C. Pau is better at C than PF w/ Dwight. Dirk is more effective at PF than C. The list goes on.

You do understand that that 8 million figure is starting point for negotiations with said players? That's the bottom amount they'd likely accept as top free agents in a market that features multiple teams that can offer them up to the point of max deals. You've suggested attaching god knows how many assets to clear two negative value prospect in order to free up the minimum amount possible to make your roster a reality.

If you think either is going to get more than $8 mil/yr under this current CBA and cap than you're delusional. Stephenson will likely get the same contract as Teague and Hawes will likely get Gortat money, around $7 mil. Neither will get $10 mil/yr let alone max contracts. The Pacers have said that they will not go into luxury tax to keep Stephenson and bringing in Turner likely spells that Indy will not match any offer for Stephenson and he is done in Indy as of July 1st.

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Edited March 28, 2014 by PSSSHHHRRR87

[NBASupes]

Hawes will not help us be much better. He is just a plug in piece. The Hawks are in bad shape.

[hazer]

Hawes will not help us be much better. He is just a plug in piece. The Hawks are in bad shape.

Without the injuries, Hawks would sit 3rd in the East. Real bad shape.....

[ViperXX79]

Without the injuries, Hawks would sit 3rd in the East. Real bad shape.....

3rd in a conference where only two teams are legit contenders and everyone else is pretty pathetic? Yay we could of been the best of the worst...great...another 2nd round butt whipping and an even worse draft pick. That sure would of been a lot of fun...

Edited March 29, 2014 by ViperXX79

[NBASupes]

Without the injuries, Hawks would sit 3rd in the East. Real bad shape.....

So, we become the Joe Johnson era Hawks...

[hazer]

So, we become the Joe Johnson era Hawks...

First year of Bud, yes we do. Then we continue trading, drafting, developing and surpass the Joe Johnson era Hawks. Which was a culmination of 5+ years of work to reach that ceiling. We're in the 2nd year of Danny Ferry, 1st year of Bud. Forest, trees.....

[frankthetank966]

This team is in a slump. It's hard for players that care not to get emotional. He's made his first ASG and posted his first triple double in Atlanta. Don't know why he would be unhappy other than losses. If that's the case then he needs to step up. His defense has been slack lately.

As far as moving him to SF yes. It's not like DMC is a natural shooter in fact Millsap is better from the field. Going big will give this team an ad tabs. I was really mad when they didn't get Hawes. Thought he would have given us a chance to be a serious contender this year in the east.

[TheFuzz]

Not a Hawes fan at all, I'll say that.

I don't think Millsap can play the 3 full-time, he could spot minutes there and maybe even be the 3 in our closing lineup but if we grab a center to move Horford over Millsap probably needs to move to the 6th man spot.