We can't even tank right?

[Diesel]

Bud.

Sit the good players man!!! Damn.

[Vol4ever]

As I said before the Hawks will make the playoffs. Why I don't know.

Just a thought............the higher the draft pick the more the team has to pay said player.

[hawkman]

As I said before the Hawks will make the playoffs. Why I don't know.

Just a thought............the higher the draft pick the more the team has to pay said player.

Or we can just trade down to get the 'guy we wanted all along' like we've done in the past to save a buck. I'm willing to bet the ASG wants that Playoff revenue more than a high draft pick anyway. Potentially playing MIA in the 1st Round is money in the bank.

[Vol4ever]

Or we can just trade down to get the 'guy we wanted all along' like we've done in the past to save a buck. I'm willing to bet the ASG wants that Playoff revenue more than a high draft pick anyway. Potentially playing MIA in the 1st Round is money in the bank.

Until proven wrong I believe this 100%. I don't believe the ownership of this organization has any plans to bring in anything more than cheap draft picks and free agents.

[Dejay]

Until proven wrong I believe this 100%. I don't believe the ownership of this organization has any plans to bring in anything more than cheap draft picks and free agents.

Agree and cosign. Those two playoff games at home plus the extra TV $$$ easily trumps getting the 11-12th pick in their minds...

[Wretch]

Or we can just trade down to get the 'guy we wanted all along' like we've done in the past to save a buck. I'm willing to bet the ASG wants that Playoff revenue more than a high draft pick anyway. Potentially playing MIA in the 1st Round is money in the bank.

Y'know.......

I've been trying to tell you guys this for about 2 seasons now. The vision of the ASG is still here. They just have a smarter basketball mind working on it. Danny Ferry IS an extension of our ownership. He's not a puppet. He calls the shots...BUT he thinks like they do.

Hello!? THAT's why they brought him on. What else is on his resume? The guy that built these Cavs:

The ownership we hated...handpicked THIS general manager. Let that sink in.

Of all the choices...we could go after ANYBODY. This is their choice. Why? What appealed to them? Because he is a guy that shares THEIR vision about being competitive. Go back and listen to Gearon and then listen to Ferry...their comments are identical (almost verbatim).

...and none this sets off ANY alarms at all?

I'm not saying he's going to be a bad GM or that he's terrible. What I'm saying is...I'm not buying what he's selling. We built a "competitive" team around Smoove. We built another one around Horf. You watch. My gut tells me we'll be fielding a "competitive" team built around Paul Millsap in a couple of years and we'll still be "playing smart, competitive, basketball" with the goal of making the playoffs. No?

[sillent]

What's wrong with having a competitive team??? The Spurs are competitive... Kobe, Durant, Lebron and comp are competitive. Only one team wins but you think OKC is complaining that they have Durant and Westbrook and haven't won a finals. Should they trade them because their too competitive to tank but haven't won it all. Should we go thru years of being the Magic, Hornets/Pelicans, 76ers, Kings. If we were in the Wolves position where we were competitive but just can't cut it I would understand. Other than that it just sounds ridiculous. Maybe y'all weren't Hawks fans when we had that 13 win season or 26 the next season and just prayin for highlights and a good play or two but I'm happy that we've been putting ourselves in position to play longer these past couple of years. Honestly with the talent we've had and lost (like Joe, Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Marvin, Jamal Crawford) if we played a lot more competitive like this team plays we could have gone alot further!!

[sillent]

Look at how talented the Pacers are and than how they look on the court when they don't play to their highest potential. That would depress me as a fan.

[noble]

Look at how talented the Pacers are and than how they look on the court when they don't play to their highest potential. That would depress me as a fan.

Never even sniffing a finals has depressed me as a fan...just saying.

[Dejay]

Never even sniffing a finals has depressed me as a fan...just saying.

Never sniffing a conference finals depresses me even more. What if the Clips get beyond the second round this year and leaves our team as the only one not to play in a final four in American pro sports since Nixon was in office?

I for one am ebola-level sick of 'competitive' teams playing here. I've seen that going back to the Roundfield days. This franchise is like a 37-year old man playing alone in the kiddie pool. While all the grown ups are drinking adult beverages, skinny-dipping, hooking up, and splashing away in the real pool, our boy is playing with his rubber ducky and waiting on Mom to finish making his alphabet soup. Yet he still wonders why no girl wants to be seen with him.

[Wretch]

Never sniffing a conference finals depresses me even more. What if the Clips get beyond the second round this year and leaves our team as the only one not to play in a final four in American pro sports since Nixon was in office?

I for one am ebola-level sick of 'competitive' teams playing here. I've seen that going back to the Roundfield days. This franchise is like a 37-year old man playing alone in the kiddie pool. While all the grown ups are drinking adult beverages, skinny-dipping, hooking up, and splashing away in the real pool, our boy is playing with his rubber ducky and waiting on Mom to finish making his alphabet soup. Yet he still wonders why no girl wants to be seen with him.

...and that is my signature....until something drastic happens.

[Wretch]

What's wrong with having a competitive team??? The Spurs are competitive... Kobe, Durant, Lebron and comp are competitive. Only one team wins but you think OKC is complaining that they have Durant and Westbrook and haven't won a finals. Should they trade them because their too competitive to tank but haven't won it all. Should we go thru years of being the Magic, Hornets/Pelicans, 76ers, Kings. If we were in the Wolves position where we were competitive but just can't cut it I would understand. Other than that it just sounds ridiculous. Maybe y'all weren't Hawks fans when we had that 13 win season or 26 the next season and just prayin for highlights and a good play or two but I'm happy that we've been putting ourselves in position to play longer these past couple of years. Honestly with the talent we've had and lost (like Joe, Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Marvin, Jamal Crawford) if we played a lot more competitive like this team plays we could have gone alot further!!

• You are confusing being a competitor with being a contender.
  • We have always been a playoff competitor. Historically, more so than all but about 3 franchises (Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, etc.)
    • It has not improved our marketability
    • It has not improved our free agent draw
    • It has not improved the opinion of our franchise
      • Not with casual or die hard NBA fans
      • Not with LOCAL fans
      • Not with the media
      • Not with players
      • Not with coaches
      • Nobody gives a shit.
  • We have never been a contender. Ever.
• Only one team wins the title, but there are many teams that contend for it.
  • We have never been in the finals.
  • We have never been in the semi-finals.
  • We have never been close to MAKING the semi-finals....except for 1988
    • We're not close now
    • We were not close last year
    • Barring a free agent miracle, we will not be close next year
      • And it doesn't appear that our ownership cares - they are happy with being competitive and making the playoffs.
• There is one reason why have not been a contender. We do not have this.
  • We suck at getting them in free agency
  • They are almost never drafted outside of picks 1-14

    (where we will pick this year)

  • Without offering the players that keep us "competitive" we don't have a lot to offer in trades.
  • This sort of team "building" methodology leaves us with a very narrow and unconventional path with a laughably low % chance at getting what is REALLY needed here. Which is a star player.
• I am an Atlanta Hawks Fan
  • I have been a faithful fan since 1985
  • I pay MONEY to support a FREE Hawks fan site
  • I pay MONEY to go watch them play the WORST teams
  • I spend mornings, afternoons, and evenings discussing the team
  • I follow the team in the news
  • I watch the team on television
  • I do not believe that rolling out a "competitive" 1st/2nd round team every damn year is in this franchise's best interest

• Rather than fumbling around with more meaningless 1st and 2nd round losses, which is doing more damage to our reputation that people realize, I believe that we need to do what EVERYONE ELSE DOES and REBUILD the franchise with raw talent and...
  • Groom it and build a team around it...like OKC or
  • Trade it (like the Celtics or the Clippers)

[TheNorthCydeRises]

What's wrong with having a competitive team??? The Spurs are competitive... Kobe, Durant, Lebron and comp are competitive. Only one team wins but you think OKC is complaining that they have Durant and Westbrook and haven't won a finals. Should they trade them because their too competitive to tank but haven't won it all. Should we go thru years of being the Magic, Hornets/Pelicans, 76ers, Kings. If we were in the Wolves position where we were competitive but just can't cut it I would understand. Other than that it just sounds ridiculous. Maybe y'all weren't Hawks fans when we had that 13 win season or 26 the next season and just prayin for highlights and a good play or two but I'm happy that we've been putting ourselves in position to play longer these past couple of years. Honestly with the talent we've had and lost (like Joe, Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Marvin, Jamal Crawford) if we played a lot more competitive like this team plays we could have gone alot further!!

There's a difference between being "competitive" and being "contenders". The teams and players you named are contenders. Teams like the Wizards, Bobcats, and T-Wolves are competitive.

I'm not a tank guy. And I agree with you that being competitive isn't a bad thing. It's just that we need ELITE talent around here, in order for us to go to contender status. You're more than likely are not going to find an elite talent at #12. A good talent, possibly. But not an elite talent.

If you want that elite talent, you either have to be real bad and get a high draft pick . . real savvy in free agency to get an elite player . . or real smart and identify a star talent that slips in the draft.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

• You are confusing being a competitor with being a contender.
  • We have always been a playoff competitor. Historically, more so than all but about 3 franchises (Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, etc.)
    • It has not improved our marketability
    • It has not improved our free agent draw
    • It has not improved the opinion of our franchise
      • Not with casual or die hard NBA fans
      • Not with LOCAL fans
      • Not with the media
      • Not with players
      • Not with coaches
      • Nobody gives a shit.
  • We have never been a contender. Ever.
• Only one team wins the title, but there are many teams that contend for it.
  • We have never been in the finals.
  • We have never been in the semi-finals.
  • We have never been close to MAKING the semi-finals....except for 1988
    • We're not close now
    • We were not close last year
    • Barring a free agent miracle, we will not be close next year
      • And it doesn't appear that our ownership cares - they are happy with being competitive and making the playoffs.
• There is one reason why have not been a contender. We do not have this.
  • We suck at getting them in free agency
  • They are almost never drafted outside of picks 1-14

    (where we will pick this year)

  • Without offering the players that keep us "competitive" we don't have a lot to offer in trades.
  • This sort of team "building" methodology leaves us with a very narrow and unconventional path with a laughably low % chance at getting what is REALLY needed here. Which is a star player.
• I am an Atlanta Hawks Fan
  • I have been a faithful fan since 1985
  • I pay MONEY to support a FREE Hawks fan site
  • I pay MONEY to go watch them play the WORST teams
  • I spend mornings, afternoons, and evenings discussing the team
  • I follow the team in the news
  • I watch the team on television
  • I do not believe that rolling out a "competitive" 1st/2nd round team every damn year is in this franchise's best interest

• Rather than fumbling around with more meaningless 1st and 2nd round losses, which is doing more damage to our reputation that people realize, I believe that we need to do what EVERYONE ELSE DOES and REBUILD the franchise with raw talent and...
  • Groom it and build a team around it...like OKC or
  • Trade it (like the Celtics or the Clippers)

First off . . I should've scrolled down one more post to see your reply. It would've saved me some typing.

Second . . while I pretty much agree 100% with you, it's a little too late in the game right now to try to jockey for draft position. As good as people say this draft is, I really only see about 5 potential franchise changing talents

- Wiggins

- Parker

- Randle

- Embiid

- Smart

Everyone else will either be solid starters or good role players off the bench.

Honestly, for this team to get to that next level, they're going to have to trade either Horford or Millsap for a talented young player or a high draft pick. But I'll bet that the GM won't do it, because he's more of a believer in the "system" than he is a believer in acquiring top level talent.

[Wretch]

You're right, but as I was saying in the other thread...

I'd rather have my pick of what's available and the HOPE of landing a top pick. Sad as it may sound, I doubt I'll even watch the Hawks in the playoffs. I might catch a game.

Oddly enough, I'll watch every game of the ECF's and ANY game that I think someone has a chance of upsetting the Heat. I'll be checking out the Western Conference, and I'll watch every single game of the finals.

Doesn't make me sound like much of a Hawks fan, huh? :(

These cats gotta show me something new man. I was tired of getting whooped in the playoffs 3-4 seasons ago. I'm beyond disenchanted with them now.

[Dejay]

I guess my influence is catching around here. I'm not the least bit interested in watching them get their backs cracked open by Indy or the Lebrons in five games max. I'm looking at the bigger picture here. We haven't attracted a marquee free agent since Mutombo's heyday (JJ was restricted). We've drafted one All-Star since Reagan's first term. Contending teams don't have that kind of track record so to put this bunch in the same sentence with REAL squads like the Spurs is nothing short of bad comedy.

I've said it for the longest time; no one cares about your playoff appearances if there are no banners hanging up as a result. I remember not too long ago when the Celtics were a perennial lottery team and went all out to bring in Allen and KG. Folks on this site said that the move would backfire because they weren't building the team 'the right way'. A year later, they were hanging up another banner. I said then and to this day that they had it right the whole time.

If this 'win without losing' approach hasn't worked the last 35+ years, it's time to change the approach. High time...

[DJlaysitup]

Or we can just trade down to get the 'guy we wanted all along' like we've done in the past to save a buck. I'm willing to bet the ASG wants that Playoff revenue more than a high draft pick anyway. Potentially playing MIA in the 1st Round is money in the bank.

well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdNsltQXTVU

[Wretch]

I've said this a million times....but the concern for anyone trying to rebuild the Hawks, and any team really, is finding a special talent. Once you realize that the common denominator amongst ALL contending teams is an identifiable, elite talent, then it becomes crystal clear what needs to be done.

People will come up with all sorts of ways to get that kind of talent. In reality, all paths to it are narrow unforgiving. Honestly, it has more to do with TIMING and LUCK than any sort of metric or methodology. There's no surefire way to do get it done. Let's be real about that. But there are two surefire ways to shoot yourself in the foot:

1) Ignore ANY path to acquiring top tier talent - be it trades, lottery, or free agency.

2) Put all of your eggs in one basket.

To me, Ferry is flirting with both of these mistakes. He seems intent to ignore the lottery while he is content to put all of his eggs in the free agent basket (he can't be expecting much with trades).

[Gray Mule]

Hawks can't possibly get it right, regardless of what they do.

If they do drop to 9th place, miss the playoffs and get the 12th

pick instead of 15th, will this really make us that much better?

Or, if we hold on to the 8th place and go into the playoffs, what

will being in the playoffs mean to the young Hawks that remain

here next season and beyond? Don't sell this short. We know

it means a lot to our veteran players to be there. It will mean even

more to our young players.

As concerning the desirability of free agents coming here, will they

be more likely to want to be here because they have the 12th pick

instead of the 15th? A team that couldn't make the playoffs? Or,

would the fact that this Hawk team was in the playoffs be more of

an enticement?

Regardless of what we do we can't possibly do it right, can we?

GO HAWKS !!

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I've said this a million times....but the concern for anyone trying to rebuild the Hawks, and any team really, is finding a special talent. Once you realize that the common denominator amongst ALL contending teams is an identifiable, elite talent, then it becomes crystal clear what needs to be done.

People will come up with all sorts of ways to get that kind of talent. In reality, all paths to it are narrow unforgiving. Honestly, it has more to do with TIMING and LUCK than any sort of metric or methodology. There's no surefire way to do get it done. Let's be real about that. But there are two surefire ways to shoot yourself in the foot:

1) Ignore ANY path to acquiring top tier talent - be it trades, lottery, or free agency.

2) Put all of your eggs in one basket.

To me, Ferry is flirting with both of these mistakes. He seems intent to ignore the lottery while he is content to put all of his eggs in the free agent basket (he can't be expecting much with trades).

Agree with this 100%. Pro-tanker and pro-competitive all agree... We need to get better and to do so, we have to take chances.

Pro-tankers want a chance at the draft - a shot in the dark to get that special, elite talent. Problem with this:

• You have to waste an entire season
• You only have a 25% chance (that is if you have the worse record) to get the number one pick
• Top 5 picks are more busts than stars. Guaranteed stars come up maybe every 3-5 years.
• Drafts picks take years of investment to develop

Pro-competitives want to get better through player development, signing free agents, and making trades. Problem with this:

• Free agents aren't forced to sign with you, unlike draft picks
• Trades are almost never fair in value
• Free agents and trades eat up more cap space than draft picks

Truth is, elite teams get better by incorporating both of these philosophies. Draft well, sign the right guys, and make the right trades when they present themselves. You gotta be bad to get good and you gotta be smart to become great.