The Plan is _____________ ?

[AHF]

Dwight took Orlando to the ECF. Atlanta has never done that.

Dwight took Orlando to the NBA finals. Atlanta has never done that.

I would consider your dream a step forward for the Atlanta Hawks even if they lost Dwight. Especially since a team with competent management would have had a better shot to keep him. Study the Orlando GM during those years for a study in incompetence. Bad management will undermine about any situation.

[Guest]

Study the Orlando GM during those years for a study in incompetence. Bad management will undermine about any situation.

And who was our GM here in Atlanta those years....mmmmmm? Lol - just saying - bad management/drafting here too at that time.

[Wretch]

Dwight took Orlando to the ECF. Atlanta has never done that.

Dwight took Orlando to the NBA finals. Atlanta has never done that.

I would consider your dream a step forward for the Atlanta Hawks even if they lost Dwight. Especially since a team with competent management would have had a better shot to keep him. Study the Orlando GM during those years for a study in incompetence. Bad management will undermine about any situation.

Not to mention...you still have the option to trade him at any time. It's not easy knowing when to pull the trigger on a deal. Sometimes you don't get that opportunity because you have to ride a guy out like Dwight.

...and it also goes right over people's heads what Orlando did right after they lost their marquee guy. You don't see them doing this ridiculous thing we're doing.

[Wretch]

And yes....I would love to have drafted him just to have a contender.

[nathan2331]

How could anyone be dissatisfied with the success Dwight brought to Orlando. Sure his time there ended unceremoniously, but he took them father than we've been in 30 years, stomping on us once in the process.

[Diesel]

We shall forever be at odds on that one bruh.

Until a team with no SUPERstars show up and win the championship... I'm right.

i.e. in the NBA, you have to have a SUPERSTAR to be in the championship picture.

[AHF]

Until a team with no SUPERstars show up and win the championship... I'm right.

i.e. in the NBA, you have to have a SUPERSTAR to be in the championship picture.

I agree with you but do think the Larry Brown Pistons lacked a superstar. I just don't think the exception really changes the lesson.

[BrazilianHawk]

Dwight took Orlando to the ECF. Atlanta has never done that.

Dwight took Orlando to the NBA finals. Atlanta has never done that.

I would consider your dream a step forward for the Atlanta Hawks even if they lost Dwight. Especially since a team with competent management would have had a better shot to keep him. Study the Orlando GM during those years for a study in incompetence. Bad management will undermine about any situation.

Eh, like Billy Knight was the perfect example of brilliant competence.

And the losers of the ECF and Finals don't get a ring... So why bother?

[BrazilianHawk]

Not to mention...you still have the option to trade him at any time. It's not easy knowing when to pull the trigger on a deal. Sometimes you don't get that opportunity because you have to ride a guy out like Dwight.

...and it also goes right over people's heads what Orlando did right after they lost their marquee guy. You don't see them doing this ridiculous thing we're doing.

What I see in Orlando is a ridiculously bad team, and I would GLADLY eat crow if they leapfrog the Hawks within 3 years from now.

They have Nik Vucevic, a very good center, but Horford is still better. Then they have Oladipo who figures to be a decent starter, but not an all-star... then who? Oh, I forget, they get the next basketball god out of the 2014 draft, who will instantly tunr them into contenders.

[AHF]

Eh, like Billy Knight was the perfect example of brilliant competence.

And the losers of the ECF and Finals don't get a ring... So why bother?

I love this logic:

"Eh, NBA Finals - who cares if there is no ring. Hey, did you see the Hawks are going to earn the 8th seed! That is sooo much better than missing the playoffs and playing at the top of the lottery this season."

[BrazilianHawk]

Tthe moment we signed Millsap and re-upped Teague, everybody knew the Hawks wouldn't be at the top of the lottery

So that's a moot point.

I'd rather watch the Hawks in the playoffs and have the 15th pick than being eliminated and picking 10th. But maybe it's just me.

[Wretch]

What I see in Orlando is a ridiculously bad team, and I would GLADLY eat crow if they leapfrog the Hawks within 3 years from now.

They have Nik Vucevic, a very good center, but Horford is still better. Then they have Oladipo who figures to be a decent starter, but not an all-star... then who? Oh, I forget, they get the next basketball god out of the 2014 draft, who will instantly tunr them into contenders.

[AHF]

Tthe moment we signed Millsap and re-upped Teague, everybody knew the Hawks wouldn't be at the top of the lottery

So that's a moot point.

I'd rather watch the Hawks in the playoffs and have the 15th pick than being eliminated and picking 10th. But maybe it's just me.

Exactly. You piss on an NBA Finals appearance but are excited to watch the Hawks with the 8th seed. Give me a break. If you like to see the Hawks in the playoffs, you should be salivating at the idea of them actually winning the Eastern Conference.

[BrazilianHawk]

Don't get me wrong, I would love the Hawks to be at the Finals and win it all. But we have had rebuilding efforts before and they just didn't work. Because tanking does not work. I don't want to have a 9-year playoff drought again, and then come up with a Josh Smith-type player as the leader of the team as the end result of the rebuilding that was supposed to take us to the promised land. Not again. I will just say NO to it. Heck, It's about implementing a new system with a new coach and hopefully a better roster than we had the last few years. But it takes time. I for one would think it's better to start the changes that need to be done with a playoff appearance instead of turning into the laughing stock, punching bag of the league.

[BrazilianHawk]

Is this a serious post or is my sarcasm detector on the blink/fritz?

Dead serious. You guys keep gushing about Dwight, but he won nothing in Orlando. A few really nice playoff runs, but no championsips. If he ever becomes a champion, does the Magic get props for it? Will the Magic be remembered as the team in which the great DH developed his game? I doubt it.

Runner-ups are just as losers as the other 28 teams that failed.

So, what's the point of tanking to draft a player who will be on his way out before he delivers a championship?

[AHF]

So, what's the point of tanking to draft a player who will be on his way out before he delivers a championship?

Like these teams?

2013; 2012; 2006: 25 win Miami Heat - Dwayne Wade - Final MVP; 3 time champion

2011: 20 win Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki - Finals MVP; champion

2008: 36 win Boston Celtics - Paul Pierce - Finals MVP; champion

2007; 2005; 2003; 1999: 20 win San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan - Finals MVP; 4 time champion

Why bother with these lottery guys? All these teams started with playoff seasons before they got their finals MVP guys, right?

[Wretch]

This is becoming a very weird discussion. So to recap,

- you think Josh Smith's selection was the product of tanking (see post #38)? (if anything it was the product of doing ... exactly what Ferry's doing)

- you think our franchise's playoff success(sic) is more acceptable than the Magic's apparently mediocre run to the conference finals and NBA Finals.

- you think we're currently on track to do ... anything in the playoffs?

- there is no success unless you win it all?

- and no drafted players do anything for the team that drafted him?

You forgot to add that he has plotted out the careers of 3 players, one rookie and one that hasn't even been drafted yet, who have a combined 3 years of NBA experience (BARELY) in Orlando...as well as knowing whom Orlando might deal and for what within the near future.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Wretch

[BrazilianHawk]

This is becoming a very weird discussion. So to recap,

- you think Josh Smith's selection was the product of tanking (see post #38)? (if anything it was the product of doing ... exactly what Ferry's doing)

- you think our franchise's playoff success(sic) is more acceptable than the Magic's apparently mediocre run to the conference finals and NBA Finals.

- you think we're currently on track to do ... anything in the playoffs?

- there is no success unless you win it all?

- and no drafted players do anything for the team that drafted him?

1. How can anyone drafted 17th be the product of tanking? Of course I wasn't saying that. Childress was the product of tanking that year, which is even worse. What I mean is the Hawks tanked for so long and the last roster pre-rebuilding featured Josh Smith, of all people, as our leader and team "star"..

That's the resut of almost a decade of tanking: no championships, no conference finals, no nothing besides some playoff runs.

2. No, I don't. I would like to have been in the Finals, BUT the Magic didn't win it all, so they have won exactly the same amount of rings than the Hawks in the DH era: Zero. So what's so important about the Magic and Dwight?

3. I think the chances of this team actually making something in the playoffs are way better than the chances the Hawks end up with a top 3 pick. That's enough for me to want them in the playoffs. You can't win if you're not there.

4. Of course there is success, other than winning it all. What I don't understand is you guys saying that making the playoffs 7 years in a row isn't success at all. By your standards, maybe the most successful teams in the NBA are the Cavs, the Cats, the Kings, the Pels, the Wolves and, obviously, the Magic. After all, they got the lion's share of the top picks the last drafts...

5. Oh but they do! Just check AHF's post above... but actually, none of them win it all by themselves.

[BrazilianHawk]

Like these teams?

2013; 2012; 2006: 25 win Miami Heat - Dwayne Wade - Final MVP; 3 time champion

2011: 20 win Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki - Finals MVP; champion

2008: 36 win Boston Celtics - Paul Pierce - Finals MVP; champion

2007; 2005; 2003; 1999: 20 win San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan - Finals MVP; 4 time champion

Why bother with these lottery guys? All these teams started with playoff seasons before they got their finals MVP guys, right?

1. Yes, yes, Wade has won all 3 titles all by himself. What a load of crap. Is it coincidence that the first title came one year after SHAQ signed during the offseason? And the other two, were they not the product of the most embarassing collusion episode in the history of the NBA?

2. It took only 13 years for him to become NBA champion and somehow you want to give credit to him, alone... what about Kidd and Chandler?

3. More of the same. 2008 was a product of a blockbuster deal that had absolutely nothing to do with Pierce being drafted by the Celts. Any other player in the league would have a decent shot at a title playing with Garnett and Allen in, or near their primes.

4. San Antonio didn't tank, they just got lucky. They had already a very good team and adding the best PF ever couldn't hurt. It's not like the team was built around Timmy the day he was drafted. NOT TO MENTION 3 of the 4 titles were won by a big three that featured a 28th and a 57th pick... So please, stop saying stars or superstars or whatever only come by with a top pick.

Edited April 8, 2014 by BrazilianHawk

[nathan2331]

1. Yes, yes, Wade has won all 3 titles all by himself. What a load of crap. Is it coincidence that the first title came one year after SHAQ signed during the offseason? And the other two, were they not the product of the most embarassing collusion episode in the history of the NBA?

2. It took only 13 years for him to become NBA champion and somehow you want to give credit to him, alone... what about Kidd and Chandler?

3. More of the same. 2008 was a product of a blockbuster deal that had absolutely nothing to do with Pierce being drafted by the Celts. Any other player in the league would have a decent shot at a title playing with Garnett and Allen in, or near their primes.

4. San Antonio didn't tank, they just got lucky. They had already a very good team and adding the best PF ever couldn't hurt. It's not like the team was built around Timmy the day he was drafted. NOT TO MENTION 3 of the 4 titles were won by a big three that featured a 28th and a 57th pick... So please, stop saying stars or superstars or whatever only come by with a top pick.

You're missing the point. All these players were THE major piece to the puzzle. To get a player of their caliber, most likely your going to have to suck for a bit. The lottery isn't a perfect method (not even my preferred really) but I can't disagree with pro-tankers anymore when they say this team isn't going to become true contenders until something major happens.