I noticed that Teague is no longer the whipping boy around here?

[macdaddy]

That's what the Teague lovers refuse to admit is that he's a middle of the pack PG getting paid too much. I showed that in another thread how he under performs for his salary group but of course that's too advanced for some on here to consider.

I've got to disagree with you guys because the 'discussions' i've been in haven't been you guys saying he's a middle of the pack point guard at all. Many of the comments i've seen from several of you have been that he is a poor and below average point guard which i do take issue with. There may be some that think he is elite but it's not me and I haven't seen many people saying he's an elite PG. There again i've been staying away from the Teague talk because it's somewhat pointless now.

[Peoriabird]

I even flat out asked somebody what it would take to stop the hate and the answer was top 15 which above his pay grade but we both agree that is was reasonable. Now top 15 or middle of the pack isn't enough. Man I hate moving targets.

[Admin]

I've got to disagree with you guys because the 'discussions' i've been in haven't been you guys saying he's a middle of the pack point guard at all. Many of the comments i've seen from several of you have been that he is a poor and below average point guard which i do take issue with. There may be some that think he is elite but it's not me and I haven't seen many people saying he's an elite PG. There again i've been staying away from the Teague talk because it's somewhat pointless now.

Statistically he is below average this year and exactly average for his career. I've never said otherwise. For me that's not worth 8 million per but maybe for others he's worth that. Honestly I think it's been too long since Hawks fans have seen actual good PG play and see more in Teague than there is.

[willthepureshooter]

I guess the haters are somewhere recharging their batteries. . Lol. 19pts 6/12fg 8ast 2stls Rumble young man, rumble...

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[BudBall]

I am ok with Jeff Teague, PG is not what we should be worried.

[frosgrim]

Teague isn't a consistent difference maker and that is the fundamental problem. He will have 20 really good games a year, but then has 25 awful games. The rest are average. This is the key problem. Put Jeff on a team with a difference maker and his problems aren't as glaring. That said, guys like Jordan, Bird, Kobe, Wade would devour Jeff if they were teammates as Jeff's too mentally weak.

[Diesel]

Teague isn't a consistent difference maker and that is the fundamental problem. He will have 20 really good games a year, but then has 25 awful games. The rest are average. This is the key problem. Put Jeff on a team with a difference maker and his problems aren't as glaring. That said, guys like Jordan, Bird, Kobe, Wade would devour Jeff if they were teammates as Jeff's too mentally weak.

This seems like a weak ass assumption. Please tell me how you come to this?

As for as middle of the pack PG... well, there are 30 starting PGs in the league. Middle of the pack may be 13-17... I can take that.

Lastly, Somebody said that Atlanta fans haven't seen a good PG in a while. I agree. In fact, the last time we had a person over 6.5 apg for the season was 2002-2003 with Jason Terry. Terry had two ~20 point scorers playing beside him. However, Teague is playing this season with no 20 point scorers. The thing that is missing in this whole argument is the quality of players that Teague have playing beside him. We talked about Lillard. Lillard has LaMarcus Aldridge scoring over 20 ppg . Teague has no scorer over 20 ppg.

[Diesel]

This is simple. Teague cannot be criticized for his shot selection for not taking more 3's when he is only hitting 32% of them.

Everyone should acknowledge that Lillard is the better scorer both in volume and efficiency.

Anyone disagree?

Better scorer was never the argument. In fact, I conceded that at the beginning. Better PG.... was the point. remember PG Thingys...

[macdaddy]

I look at it this way. Without Teague this year I think we would have been in the 8-9 spot or worse all year in an awful eastern conference. So while how he stacks up to the other PGs in the league is certainly debatable, I don't see how anyone can draw the conclusion that we'd have sniffed the playoffs without him. So to me he's a huge difference maker on this team. And the idea floated by many that Mack and/or Dennis are anywhere near as good as Teague has always been bunk and at this point should be obvious to all.

[Peoriabird]

And the idea floated by many that Mack and/or Dennis are anywhere near as good as Teague has always been bunk and at this point should be obvious to all.

But what about the WS/36? Aren't they similar between the 2 players? LOL!

[AHF]

Moving targets? Really?

I even flat out asked somebody what it would take to stop the hate and the answer was top 15 which above his pay grade but we both agree that is was reasonable. Now top 15 or middle of the pack isn't enough. Man I hate moving targets.

I say he is average and have been saying that for a while. Some people think he is well above average. That is the tension.

You, for example, have been offended in the past by people saying he is middle of the road and have reacted negatively to people saying they would prefer Mike Conley, Ty Lawson, Deron Williams, etc.

For example:

I would rather have Teague over most point guards in the league including the highly overrated Darren Williams!

I would rank Teague at the middle of the league and therefore there is tension in the discussion over his play.

Find where I said Teague was anything but an average PG. Don't settle for some aspect of his game that I said was below average like his 3pt shooting this season but where I said he was actually something other than an average PG in total. Go for it. I'll wait and then you can accuse me of setting moving targets.

If you are instead using a strawman of "somebody" who said being mediocre and average was good enough for them and then accusing everyone else in the debate about moving the target then I will simply tell you that is a bad argument and should be dropped. It would be like me using quotes from 'terrel' who claimed Teague was going to be a superstar and accusing anyone defending Teague of moving the targets when they now claim that he should only be expected to reach some lower standard. Cherry picking a quote from someone else who is in the minority on an issue and applying that to everyone isn't fair or useful.

Edited April 10, 2014 by AHF

[AHF]

Better scorer was never the argument. In fact, I conceded that at the beginning. Better PG.... was the point. remember PG Thingys...

Actually, Diesel you directly cited his "superior" shooting as a reason he was a better PG than Lillard.

* He and Millsap both were allstar considerations.

* His shooting is at 43.3% for the season.

To put it in perspective, the great Damon Lillard is only shooting 42.5% from the field.

* With less assists than Teague.

Therefore, Teague is a better PG than Lillard.

(formatting changed for clarity)

When it was pointed out to you that Lillard is actually much less efficient as a shooter you went on to ridicule the TS% stat and to suggest that it would justify Josh Smith's shooting when, in fact, it kills Josh for his inefficiency.

When pointed out that Lillard has a superior A/TO ratio - one of those PG things - you suggested that Portland's superior shooters led to Lillard having the better A/TO ratio - when in fact the Trailblazers don't shoot as well as the Hawks. (For assist numbers, they don't differentiate between 3's and 2's and don't count FT's so FG% is the correct metric since the FG% represents a reasonable proxy for the odds of a potential assist being converted by making the shot).

Portland Trailblazers minus Lillard: 2539 for 5584 = 45.4%

Atlanta Hawks minus Teague: 2482 for 5382 = 46.1%

So actually Teague's numbers are inflated compared to Lillard's based on the Hawks' superior shooting ability.

It is like you guys you throw #$*&# out without any thought sometimes.

Josh Smith looks good under TS%?

Lillard's A/TO ratio inflated by superior shooting?

Come on.

Edited April 10, 2014 by AHF

[benhillboy]

Let's give Golden State Teague, Lou, and a bag of boiled peanuts for Curry and call it a day. Whatcha say...

Another Curry Stan, what's up folk?! I'd give the Hawks Organization for Wardell 2. Seriously, he'd be GM, coach, and go 1 on 5. Pre-game announcer, concessions at halftime, traffic director after the game.

But as for Earthling PGs, Kemba or Jeff?

Edited April 10, 2014 by benhillboy

[willthepureshooter]

Ice breaker much....?????

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

[Diesel]

But what about the WS/36? Aren't they similar between the 2 players? LOL!

Not just WS/36... You have the SDES (Super Duper Efficiency Stat) and the ICSTFS (I Can See The Future Score). Jeff's ICSTFS is just not as high as Dennis or Mack's!!!

In fact, Jeff's ICSTFS is right on par with Jason Terry's from 2002. That means he's average!

[Diesel]

Actually, Diesel you directly cited his "superior" shooting as a reason he was a better PG than Lillard.

If you read back.. I mentioned his shooting only as a correction to whoever it was who quoted that Teague was a 41.1% for the season. Then I pointed out that another PG who people here drool over has a lower FG% and Assist rate than Teague. And went into the Teague is a better PG. So the specifics were never about scoring. I even qualified that later in the thread.

[AHF]

If you read back.. I mentioned his shooting only as a correction to whoever it was who quoted that Teague was a 41.1% for the season. Then I pointed out that another PG who people here drool over has a lower FG% and Assist rate than Teague. And went into the Teague is a better PG. So the specifics were never about scoring. I even qualified that later in the thread.

I looked over the thread and don't see it. Can you quote what you are talking about? Your first post about Lillard was what I quoted above and was very clear about addressing assists and shooting %s.

I saw your subsequent misstatement about TS% and your incorrect statement on Portland vs. Atlanta shooting %s which are noted above but I am not seeing the other analysis other than pointing out that Teague has more assists (without addressing the fact that he also has 40%+ more turnovers).

[Peoriabird]

Moving targets? Really?

I say he is average and have been saying that for a while. Some people think he is well above average. That is the tension.

You, for example, have been offended in the past by people saying he is middle of the road and have reacted negatively to people saying they would prefer Mike Conley, Ty Lawson, Deron Williams, etc.

For example:

I would rank Teague at the middle of the league and therefore there is tension in the discussion over his play.

Find where I said Teague was anything but an average PG. Don't settle for some aspect of his game that I said was below average like his 3pt shooting this season but where I said he was actually something other than an average PG in total. Go for it. I'll wait and then you can accuse me of setting moving targets.

If you are instead using a strawman of "somebody" who said being mediocre and average was good enough for them and then accusing everyone else in the debate about moving the target then I will simply tell you that is a bad argument and should be dropped. It would be like me using quotes from 'terrel' who claimed Teague was going to be a superstar and accusing anyone defending Teague of moving the targets when they now claim that he should only be expected to reach some lower standard. Cherry picking a quote from someone else who is in the minority on an issue and applying that to everyone isn't fair or useful.

The person who I am referring knows who they are!

[Diesel]

I looked over the thread and don't see it. Can you quote what you are talking about? Your first post about Lillard was what I quoted above and was very clear about addressing assists and shooting %s.

In reply to Hotlanta.

I was replying to Hots saying that he "Struggled to shoot 41% for the season".

[AHF]

 

In reply to Hotlanta.

I was replying to Hots saying that he "Struggled to shoot 41% for the season".

 

I saw that - I didn't see the argument for why Teague was better this season other than FG% and assists per game.