Have we been passed by Washington and Charlotte?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Charlotte has definitely passed us.

They decided to bottom out the team 2 years ago . . and won only 7 games. Then they won 21 last year. This year, with only a coaching change and by adding a legit big man in Al Jefferson, they're about to DOUBLE that win total and win at least 42 games.

And let's not get it twisted.

21.7 ppg

10.7 rebs

2.1 asst

50% FG

22.5 PER

.143 WS/48

Those are Al Jefferson's numbers this year. He's an ALL-STAR even if he didn't get voted to the game. He definitely deserved it over Roy Hibbert. Matter of fact, you can make a dang good case for Jefferson being on one of those All-NBA teams. At least 3rd team All-NBA behind Howard and Noah ( who will get top billing because they are on playoff level teams ).

Demarcus Cousins may be better than all of them, but will either get 3rd team, or get left off in place of Jefferson.

Washington is a little ahead of us too, because they have their backcourt of the future set in stone with Wall and Beal.

We really need for one of those kids to rapidly develop into a starter, so that the Hawks can get back into the top 4 in the East. Because the GM isn't going to overpay for a player that he could use ( like a Stephenson or a Deng ), but I guarantee you that a team like Charlotte will.

The GM is too in love with his "system" in order to overpay someone to come here. He'd rather overpay Korver, than to overpay a legit 2-way player that can help us.

[nathan2331]

Charlotte has definitely passed us.

They decided to bottom out the team 2 years ago . . and won only 7 games. Then they won 21 last year. This year, with only a coaching change and by adding a legit big man in Al Jefferson, they're about to DOUBLE that win total and win at least 42 games.

And let's not get it twisted.

21.7 ppg

10.7 rebs

2.1 asst

50% FG

22.5 PER

.143 WS/48

Those are Al Jefferson's numbers this year. He's an ALL-STAR even if he didn't get voted to the game. He definitely deserved it over Roy Hibbert. Matter of fact, you can make a dang good case for Jefferson being on one of those All-NBA teams. At least 3rd team All-NBA behind Howard and Noah ( who will get top billing because they are on playoff level teams ).

Demarcus Cousins may be better than all of them, but will either get 3rd team, or get left off in place of Jefferson.

Washington is a little ahead of us too, because they have their backcourt of the future set in stone with Wall and Beal.

We really need for one of those kids to rapidly develop into a starter, so that the Hawks can get back into the top 4 in the East. Because the GM isn't going to overpay for a player that he could use ( like a Stephenson or a Deng ), but I guarantee you that a team like Charlotte will.

The GM is too in love with his "system" in order to overpay someone to come here. He'd rather overpay Korver, than to overpay a legit 2-way player that can help us.

Al Jefferson is not a 2-way player (at least he was not until this season).

And what's so bad about Ferry's plan? I think people's expectations of where we should be next season are too high. How many GMs coming into a capped out team have their teams contending within two years?

[Diesel]

Al Jefferson is not a 2-way player (at least he was not until this season).

And what's so bad about Ferry's plan? I think people's expectations of where we should be next season are too high. How many GMs coming into a capped out team have their teams contending within two years?

Honestly, Ferry's plan lacks a future. As fans, we know that draft picks are better than capspace in Atlanta. We're going to come to a place where we lose Al and Sapp and Carroll at the same time. If Al decides that he doesn't want to come back, we're basically screwed.

Washington on the other hand has invested in Wall/Beal and then went out and got Gortat. Their core is young and they are getting better.

Charlotte has acquired Jefferson and they have a lot of young players.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Al Jefferson is not a 2-way player (at least he was not until this season).

And what's so bad about Ferry's plan? I think people's expectations of where we should be next season are too high. How many GMs coming into a capped out team have their teams contending within two years?

Al Jefferson has been a scoring and rebounding force in the middle ever since his 3rd year in the league. And he's never been the complete defensive liability that people made him out to be. He was horrible against the pick and roll, but could do a good job guarding his own man.

The problem with the GM's "plan" is that I don't believe you can trust him to bring in the right talent, to get us to that next level. Bud is obviously a good coach. But the GM's decision making on players is questionable at best. If he thinks we can get to that next level by acquiring a bunch of mediocre players on good contracts, he's going to be in for a disappointment.

He's waiting for the perfect deal or the perfect player. Let's see if he can get it done, without seeing the rest of the conference rising above us.

And as for this "capped out team", he had 30+ million to bring in some significant players to immediately improve us this summer. Instead, he brought in Millsap ( a damn good pickup ), Korver ( a decent pickup, albeit overpaid ), and Carroll ( who has outdone his contract, but is still a relatively average SF ).

The guy to get though, was Jefferson. He would be the one that would enable Horford to move to PF, and form the best frontline in the league. Who knows? Maybe Horford doesn't get hurt, if he's not going up against big centers on a nightly basis. Maybe he's not 40 feet from the basket, trying to deny some guard the ball in Cleveland, if Jefferson is alongside him on the frontline.

If Charlotte becomes the talk of these playoffs because Jefferson is balling, the GM needs to be held accountable for passing on a very good talent like that.

[nathan2331]

Al Jefferson has been a scoring and rebounding force in the middle ever since his 3rd year in the league. And he's never been the complete defensive liability that people made him out to be. He was horrible against the pick and roll, but could do a good job guarding his own man.

The problem with the GM's "plan" is that I don't believe you can trust him to bring in the right talent, to get us to that next level. Bud is obviously a good coach. But the GM's decision making on players is questionable at best. If he thinks we can get to that next level by acquiring a bunch of mediocre players on good contracts, he's going to be in for a disappointment.

He's waiting for the perfect deal or the perfect player. Let's see if he can get it done, without seeing the rest of the conference rising above us.

And as for this "capped out team", he had 30+ million to bring in some significant players to immediately improve us this summer. Instead, he brought in Millsap ( a damn good pickup ), Korver ( a decent pickup, albeit overpaid ), and Carroll ( who has outdone his contract, but is still a relatively average SF ).

The guy to get though, was Jefferson. He would be the one that would enable Horford to move to PF, and form the best frontline in the league. Who knows? Maybe Horford doesn't get hurt, if he's not going up against big centers on a nightly basis. Maybe he's not 40 feet from the basket, trying to deny some guard the ball in Cleveland, if Jefferson is alongside him on the frontline.

If Charlotte becomes the talk of these playoffs because Jefferson is balling, the GM needs to be held accountable for passing on a very good talent like that.

Most of what you said was true, but missing out on one player isn't anything to cry about. Jefferson and maybe Ellis are the only two players we didn't go after who could have made us better. The reality is that we can still be players in free agency this off season and definitely the next.

The reason I still support Ferry is because I don't believe he could have done much better given the cards dealt to him- both in the draft and free agency.

[GrimeyKidd]

Most of what you said was true, but missing out on one player isn't anything to cry about. Jefferson and maybe Ellis are the only two players we didn't go after who could have made us better. The reality is that we can still be players in free agency this off season and definitely the next.

The reason I still support Ferry is because I don't believe he could have done much better given the cards dealt to him- both in the draft and free agency.

tbh we did go after ellis. He chose elsewhere

[BrazilianHawk]

I find it funny that some people in here must have awesome super-duper-crystal balls in their houses, or offices.

HOW DO YOU KNOW Danny Ferry didn't went for Al Jefferson?

Even if he didn't, how is Jefferson a much better pickup than Millsap, considering the contracts they are signed to?

Jefferson @ 13.5 million per

34.9 min/game

21.7 ppg
10.7 rebs
2.1 asst

0.9 steals

1.1 blocks
50% FG

50.1% EFG
22.5 PER
.143 WS/48

Millsap @ 9.5 million per

33.5 min/game

17.9 ppg

8.5 rebs

3.1 asst

1.8 steals

1.1 blocks

46.1% FG

35.6% 3FG

49.7% EFG

19.7 PER

.126 WS/48

I'll take Millsap over Jefferson, thank you!

And really, saying Horford was injured because he was playing Center? C'mon now.

Edited April 11, 2014 by BrazilianHawk

[Atlantaholic]

I find it funny that some people in here must have awesome super-duper-crystal balls in their houses, or offices.

HOW DO YOU KNOW Danny Ferry didn't went for Al Jefferson?

Even if he didn't, how is Jefferson a much better pickup than Millsap, considering the contracts they are signed to?

Jefferson @ 13.5 million per

34.9 min/game

21.7 ppg

10.7 rebs

2.1 asst

0.9 steals

1.1 blocks

50% FG

22.5 PER

.143 WS/48

Millsap @ 9.5 million per

33.5 min/game

17.9 ppg

8.5 rebs

3.1 asst

1.8 steals

1.1 blocks

46.1% FG

35.6% 3FG

19.7 PER

.126 WS/48

I'll take Millsap over Jefferson, thank you!

Jefferson doesn't play defense either and has more of a history of injuries. He is having a fantastic season overall, but let's see over the life of his contract how things end up.

[Duff_Man]

And really, saying Horford was injured because he was playing Center? C'mon now.

It's the seriously worst medical hypothesis I have ever read. And I seem to read it a lot.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I find it funny that some people in here must have awesome super-duper-crystal balls in their houses, or offices.

HOW DO YOU KNOW Danny Ferry didn't went for Al Jefferson?

Even if he didn't, how is Jefferson a much better pickup than Millsap, considering the contracts they are signed to?

Jefferson @ 13.5 million per

34.9 min/game

21.7 ppg

10.7 rebs

2.1 asst

0.9 steals

1.1 blocks

50% FG

50.1% EFG

22.5 PER

.143 WS/48

Millsap @ 9.5 million per

33.5 min/game

17.9 ppg

8.5 rebs

3.1 asst

1.8 steals

1.1 blocks

46.1% FG

35.6% 3FG

49.7% EFG

19.7 PER

.126 WS/48

I'll take Millsap over Jefferson, thank you!

And really, saying Horford was injured because he was playing Center? C'mon now.

How do you post these stats, and declare that you'd take Millsap over Jefferson?

Jefferson has better numbers almost across the board PLUS Jefferson plays center. Jefferson is a better go to scorer. Jefferson is a better team defensive player ( Defensive Rtg of 100 . . . compared to Millsap's 102 . . which is damn good for Millsap ). Jefferson is a LEGIT #1 option in the offense.

Jefferson at 13.5 million is essentially equal to Millsap's 9 million + Brand's 4 million. Jefferson was NOT overpaid. He essentially got market value for what he is worth, and is proving that he is worth all that Charlotte paid for him.

How do I know that Jefferson wasn't on the GM's radar? Because he's not the type of talent that the GM likes. He likes bigs who can shoot. He likes players who will pass the ball. And out of his own mouth, he doesn't believe that the "Miami model" is the way to build a winner ( i.e. - acquiring superstar players ). He firmly believes that it's all about the "sum of the parts" instead of having star and superstar players . . despite everything in NBA history speaking against that.

Even the Spurs have star/superstar players in Duncan and Parker that their role players feed off of.

That dude didn't want Jefferson, just like most of the fan base didn't want him back when we were talking about what free agents to bring here. You all believed all of those stories about him being horrible on defense and being a "black hole" on offense.

And it's no sense bolding each players eFG%. Please don't get me started on that again. All the eFG% does, is prop up players who shoot 3s, and try to put them up on a level of good offensive talents. The fact that they both have essentially equal eFG%s does NOT make them equal offensive players.

Number of 30+ point games:

Jefferson: 12 . . ( 17% of his games ) . . 69 games played

Millsap: 3 . . ( 4% of his games ) . . 72 games played

Number of 10+ rebound games:

Jefferson: 39 . . ( 57% of his games )

Millsap: 30 . . ( 42% of his games )

Number of double-doubles:

Jefferson: 38 . . ( 55% of his games )

Millsap: 29 . . ( 40% of his games )

Number of 50%+ shooting games:

Jefferson: 37 . . ( 54% of his games )

Millsap: 33 . . ( 46% of his games )

Number of 5+ assist games:

Jefferson: 3 . . ( 4% of his games )

Millsap: 12 . . ( 17% of his games )

Number of 3+ steal games:

Jefferson: 8 . . ( 12% of his game )

Millsap: 18 . . ( 25% of his games )

Number of 3+ block games:

Jefferson: 7 . . ( 10% of his games )

Millsap: 3 . . ( 4% of his games )

Millsap is a very good complimentary player. He'd be the guy to put alongside of a Lebron James in Miami at PF, and he would flourish and be much more efficient.

Jefferson is an ENGINE. He can carry a team at almost a superstar level, and not kill you with a low shooting percentage. He's also going to control the defensive boards .

On a team like the Hawks, who get killed on the boards on a nightly basis, Jefferson would simply be the better fit.

Here are the Hawks with Millsap and with Jefferson.

PG - Teague . . . Teague

G - Korver . . . . . Korver

F - Carroll . . . . . Carroll

PF - Millsap . . . . Antić ( his natural position )

C - Antić . . . . . . . Jefferson

Instead of being almost strictly "jumpshot city", you now have the option to dump it down to Al in the post, and still have shooters ( Korver, Carroll, Antić ) around him. Millsap, quite frankly, just can't consistently dominate a game like Jefferson can. And Millsap is damn good when he's on.

It's no slight against Millsap, but Jefferson is simply the better impact player. He was the better player in Utah, and he's the better player now.

As the #1 option, Millsap's efficiency has gone down. He's getting star usage, but it isn't translating into "star" type numbers. 18 ppg - 8 rebs since Horford's injury is good. But 44% FG from the PF spot is not.

And I like Millsap. That dude works hard as hell and goes to work.

But Jefferson was simply the better fit for this team for the short and long term, whether people want to admit to it or not.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's the seriously worst medical hypothesis I have ever read. And I seem to read it a lot.

Horford playing center may have led to the wear and tear that his pectoral muscles were taking on a nightly basis. The fact that he has to defend post players is the thing that would take its toll on Al, not his play on offense.

Think about it.

For Al to defend post players, he has to keep his body strong. So maybe he feels that he has to hit the weights extra hard to keep his body as strong as possible. Most pec tears happen during weightlifting. Al's pec tears happened when Hibbert basically slammed him to the ground, and while overextending trying to defend Varejao 40 feet from the basket.

But both actions occurred when he had his arm overextended, and his pec muscles gave out.

So maybe if Horford wasn't playing center, his workout regiment may be a little different, in order to defend PFs, who in today's NBA tend to be slashers and spot up shooters.

It's not a coincidence that our two other guys ( Antić and Ayón ) got hurt playing center, when their natural positions in the NBA is at PF.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Jefferson doesn't play defense either and has more of a history of injuries. He is having a fantastic season overall, but let's see over the life of his contract how things end up.

Charlotte was DEAD LAST in defense last year . . . this year with Jefferson, they're 6th. No major upgrades to the roster besides Jefferson, but they do have a defensive minded coach.

According to SynergySports, Jefferson currently ranks:

28th in Post Up Defense . . . 0.69 points per play . . holding opponents to 34% FG

5th in Pick and Roll Man Defense . . . 0.64 points per play . . holding opponents to 30% FG

So save that "Jefferson doesn't play defense" stuff for those who still think that it is 2009 . . not 2014.

Edited April 11, 2014 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Atlantaholic]

Charlotte was DEAD LAST in defense last year . . . this year with Jefferson, they're 6th. No major upgrades to the roster besides Jefferson, but they do have a defensive minded coach.

According to SynergySports, Jefferson currently ranks:

28th in Post Up Defense . . . 0.69 points per play . . holding opponents to 34% FG

5th in Pick and Roll Man Defense . . . 0.64 points per play . . holding opponents to 30% FG

So save that "Jefferson doesn't play defense" stuff for those who still think that it is 2009 . . not 2014.

umm 28th is good? Anyway the guy had been bad his entire career, you don't have to go back to 2009 just last year. Ask a Utah fan about Jeffersons defense, they were happy to see him go. He has had a career year, at age 29, on that end. Not many thought the signing was good at the time and it has worked out great for them so far but not sure he is worth 4-5 million more than Sap (which has also worked out great for us). Despite your insane theory, Horford probably would still have been injured with Jefferson on board and we wouldn't be more than 2 or 3 wins better at most with Al over Sap. Not sure how anyone can argue having Al over Sap moves the needle for this team significantly especially considering Saps contract is much more cap friendly.

[DJlaysitup]

Horford playing center may have led to the wear and tear that his pectoral muscles were taking on a nightly basis. The fact that he has to defend post players is the thing that would take its toll on Al, not his play on offense.

Think about it.

For Al to defend post players, he has to keep his body strong. So maybe he feels that he has to hit the weights extra hard to keep his body as strong as possible. Most pec tears happen during weightlifting. Al's pec tears happened when Hibbert basically slammed him to the ground, and while overextending trying to defend Varejao 40 feet from the basket.

But both actions occurred when he had his arm overextended, and his pec muscles gave out.

So maybe if Horford wasn't playing center, his workout regiment may be a little different, in order to defend PFs, who in today's NBA tend to be slashers and spot up shooters.

If it were the same side I would lean towards a defect...but being both sides I tend to agree with your theory.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

umm 28th is good? Anyway the guy had been bad his entire career, you don't have to go back to 2009 just last year. Ask a Utah fan about Jeffersons defense, they were happy to see him go. He has had a career year, at age 29, on that end. Not many thought the signing was good at the time and it has worked out great for them so far but not sure he is worth 4-5 million more than Sap (which has also worked out great for us). Despite your insane theory, Horford probably would still have been injured with Jefferson on board and we wouldn't be more than 2 or 3 wins better at most with Al over Sap. Not sure how anyone can argue having Al over Sap moves the needle for this team significantly especially considering Saps contract is much more cap friendly.

Dude . . that's 28th out of EVERYBODY in the league that guards in the post.

And where are the Utah fans now? At the top of the lottery, with the big men they were counting on to replace Jefferson and Millsap ( Favors and Kanter ), playing lackluster basketball. Kanter especially has been disappointing for them this year, with his defense being far worse as a starter, than anything that Jefferson showed on a nightly basis.

The problem with Utah during the Jefferson/Millsap years, was that their guards were horrible . . . especially on the defensive side of the ball. The bigs had to constantly help them out because they were repeatedly beaten off the dribble. Favors is a great help defender. Jefferson, not so much.

But he goes to Charlotte, and they adjust how they play the pick and roll by having Jefferson sag into the lane, and forcing their PGs to fight over the screens. This forces the opposing PGs to shoot a bunch of midrange jumpers, which most of the can't make more than 40% of the time.

By Jefferson sagging back when the PG is being screened, he's able to stay between the ball handler and the basket, and can get a hand up in their face to make the jumper more difficult. And on most nights, the Bobcat guards are adequate enough defenders to fight over/through the pick. The ballhandler then has Al in his face and the defensive PG nipping at his heels behind him.

The shot gets rushed . . Jefferson gobbles up the rebound, and Charlotte ends the possession.

As for my theory . . . something is happening. Tearing your pec muscle is a freak injury for the most part, especially for an NBA player. And Horford has done it twice in 3 years. So he's either working too hard in the weight room . . . or he's using steroids/PED's and weakening his tendons between the pec muscle and shoulder ( which is another cause for that type of injury . . drugs ).

I refuse to believe that Hoford is a "roid head", so I'll go with the "trying to bulk up too much" excuse.

[GrimeyKidd]

Dude . . that's 28th out of EVERYBODY in the league that guards in the post.

And where are the Utah fans now? At the top of the lottery, with the big men they were counting on to replace Jefferson and Millsap ( Favors and Kanter ), playing lackluster basketball. Kanter especially has been disappointing for them this year, with his defense being far worse as a starter, than anything that Jefferson showed on a nightly basis.

The problem with Utah during the Jefferson/Millsap years, was that their guards were horrible . . . especially on the defensive side of the ball. The bigs had to constantly help them out because they were repeatedly beaten off the dribble. Favors is a great help defender. Jefferson, not so much.

But he goes to Charlotte, and they adjust how they play the pick and roll by having Jefferson sag into the lane, and forcing their PGs to fight over the screens. This forces the opposing PGs to shoot a bunch of midrange jumpers, which most of the can't make more than 40% of the time.

By Jefferson sagging back when the PG is being screened, he's able to stay between the ball handler and the basket, and can get a hand up in their face to make the jumper more difficult. And on most nights, the Bobcat guards are adequate enough defenders to fight over/through the pick. The ballhandler then has Al in his face and the defensive PG nipping at his heels behind him.

The shot gets rushed . . Jefferson gobbles up the rebound, and Charlotte ends the possession.

As for my theory . . . something is happening. Tearing your pec muscle is a freak injury for the most part, especially for an NBA player. And Horford has done it twice in 3 years. So he's either working too hard in the weight room . . . or he's using steroids/PED's and weakening his tendons between the pec muscle and shoulder ( which is another cause for that type of injury . . drugs ).

I refuse to believe that Hoford is a "roid head", so I'll go with the "trying to bulk up too much" excuse.

i think he over works himself because of the injury trying to be a 100%. Now he will take his time and use lighter weights like dominique instructed him to do

[Wretch]

Dude . . that's 28th out of EVERYBODY in the league that guards in the post.

And where are the Utah fans now? At the top of the lottery, with the big men they were counting on to replace Jefferson and Millsap ( Favors and Kanter ), playing lackluster basketball. Kanter especially has been disappointing for them this year, with his defense being far worse as a starter, than anything that Jefferson showed on a nightly basis.

The problem with Utah during the Jefferson/Millsap years, was that their guards were horrible . . . especially on the defensive side of the ball. The bigs had to constantly help them out because they were repeatedly beaten off the dribble. Favors is a great help defender. Jefferson, not so much.

But he goes to Charlotte, and they adjust how they play the pick and roll by having Jefferson sag into the lane, and forcing their PGs to fight over the screens. This forces the opposing PGs to shoot a bunch of midrange jumpers, which most of the can't make more than 40% of the time.

By Jefferson sagging back when the PG is being screened, he's able to stay between the ball handler and the basket, and can get a hand up in their face to make the jumper more difficult. And on most nights, the Bobcat guards are adequate enough defenders to fight over/through the pick. The ballhandler then has Al in his face and the defensive PG nipping at his heels behind him.

The shot gets rushed . . Jefferson gobbles up the rebound, and Charlotte ends the possession.

As for my theory . . . something is happening. Tearing your pec muscle is a freak injury for the most part, especially for an NBA player. And Horford has done it twice in 3 years. So he's either working too hard in the weight room . . . or he's using steroids/PED's and weakening his tendons between the pec muscle and shoulder ( which is another cause for that type of injury . . drugs ).

I refuse to believe that Hoford is a "roid head", so I'll go with the "trying to bulk up too much" excuse.

I really don't want to sound team Sap or team Al, but I got more than a little excited about the idea of bringing Jefferson here. Jefferson is one of the few non-Hawks players that I actually too the time to dig into...and what I saw impressed the shit out of me.

The thing about his defense scared me a little, but not enough to where I wouldn't have signed him. He would have been a perfect compliment to Horford. The thing I liked was that he's a true post scorer and a damn good rebounder. This is what really got my attention though.

Taking into account his touches, fg%, and his assisted%...this dude is in some GOOD company. Watching his game...defense be damned, I was sold. Moreover, Horford's more of a midrange big that doesn't need to boss the lane and moves GREAT without the ball. All of that AND you slide Horf to PF? To me it just seemed a perfect match...especially when you consider both can hit from midrange.

I wouldn't have been mad at all. Again, nothing against Sap because dude is literally my kind of player and I'm happy he's a Hawk. But I'd have signed Jefferson - if for nothing but to move Al to the 4.

[Atlantaholic]

Dude . . that's 28th out of EVERYBODY in the league that guards in the post.

And where are the Utah fans now? At the top of the lottery, with the big men they were counting on to replace Jefferson and Millsap ( Favors and Kanter ), playing lackluster basketball. Kanter especially has been disappointing for them this year, with his defense being far worse as a starter, than anything that Jefferson showed on a nightly basis.

The problem with Utah during the Jefferson/Millsap years, was that their guards were horrible . . . especially on the defensive side of the ball. The bigs had to constantly help them out because they were repeatedly beaten off the dribble. Favors is a great help defender. Jefferson, not so much.

But he goes to Charlotte, and they adjust how they play the pick and roll by having Jefferson sag into the lane, and forcing their PGs to fight over the screens. This forces the opposing PGs to shoot a bunch of midrange jumpers, which most of the can't make more than 40% of the time.

By Jefferson sagging back when the PG is being screened, he's able to stay between the ball handler and the basket, and can get a hand up in their face to make the jumper more difficult. And on most nights, the Bobcat guards are adequate enough defenders to fight over/through the pick. The ballhandler then has Al in his face and the defensive PG nipping at his heels behind him.

The shot gets rushed . . Jefferson gobbles up the rebound, and Charlotte ends the possession.

As for my theory . . . something is happening. Tearing your pec muscle is a freak injury for the most part, especially for an NBA player. And Horford has done it twice in 3 years. So he's either working too hard in the weight room . . . or he's using steroids/PED's and weakening his tendons between the pec muscle and shoulder ( which is another cause for that type of injury . . drugs ).

I refuse to believe that Hoford is a "roid head", so I'll go with the "trying to bulk up too much" excuse.

I don't know man, you are really reaching with the Horford thing. There are plenty of undersized centers in the history of the league and non of them had a history of pectoral issues. More than likely the second injury is linked to the first, and the first was just a freak incident, and had nothing to do with Horford playing center instead of PF IMO.

And I've always been a fan of Big Al to be honest, but I don't think we "blew" it by signing Sap instead. Horford and Sap were both playing lights out when they were on the floor together both playing the best basketball of their respective careers so I don't see how Jefferson would have been a significantly better option... at least not enough to justify the much steeper price tag.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Atlantaholic

[benhillboy]

Were comparing two teams that haven't been in the playoffs in forever to a franchise that has been in flux for 6 years with coaches and personnel, yet and still with a playoffs streak as long? You know damn well those teams aren't gonna be contenders, short or long term. We're creeping up on Dallas and San An territory with consecutive playoff streaks, you may have heard they have won it all recently. It was because those franchises developed a winning culture by uhh, actually trying to win. You don't learn sh@t or develop any habits in the strip club while the playoffs are going on waiting for some 19 YO kid to come save you. I guarantee you the smart players in the league are taking notice of how united and organized our operation is now and how we've fought like dogs without a 2-Time All-Star Out-Of-Position C for most of the year, even if some of the "Hawks Fans" don't.

Edited April 13, 2014 by benhillboy

[Hawkeyes007]

Rankings without injuries.

1st- Miami

2nd- Indiana

3rd- Chicago

4th- Brooklyn

5th- Toronto

6th- Atlanta

7th- Washington

8th- Charlotte