Ferry's Hawks

[tbhawksfan]

How much farther does the team have to achieve this season for you to give Ferry a solid grade on last off-season? Have they already done enough for Ferry to get a good grade? Bringing in Bud already tilts the scale pretty near success...

[Ruckus]

The only argument that could possibly be made is that he missed on Al Jefferson. That and possibly that he missed on Dieng in the draft (which is yet to be determined). Other than that, there is nothing he could have done better. CP3 and D12 were pipe dreams. This would be a prime time to revisit some old posts about Milsap, Korver, Pero, and DMC. So many haters. It must really pain some in here to see them doing so well.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Ruckus

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Missing on Al Jefferson was huge, in my opinion. Millsap has been very good though.

But one playoff win vs a good, but struggling team, is not cause for a parade in front of Philips. Win the series, and then we can call this season an overachievement. Lose the next 4 games in the series, and I guarantee that it will leave a bitter taste in fans mouths.

So the more realistic thing would be for the Hawks to push the Pacers to 6 or 7 games, before losing. If they do that, you can give the team and coach a "little league" clap for their effort. Just understand that it will still be up to the GM to bring in the talent we need, so that we can face a 6 or 7 seed in the 1st round, instead of a 1 or 2 seed in the 1st round.

The GM simply can't miss opportunities to bring in significant players to this roster. The East, while bad overall, is improving on the top end.

[GrimeyKidd]

The only argument that could possibly be made is that he missed on Al Jefferson. That and possibly that he missed on Dieng in the draft (which is yet to be determined). Other than that, there is nothing he could have done better. CP3 and D12 were pipe dreams. This would be a prime time to revisit some old posts about Milsap, Korver, Pero, and DMC. So many haters. It must really pain some in here to see them doing so well.

I understand what you mean. The only thing dieng has on bebe is a better nba body

[DJlaysitup]

Personally I don't really see our team as "Ferry's Hawks"...I'd call em "Bud's Hawks"...that old booze hound knows how to coach

[Buzzard]

Its really all about what Ferry has done with so little to start with. Tight fisted owners, lack of cap due to JJ, Josh, and Marvin. We are not a marquee franchise; yet he attracted Bud, Millsap, and convinced Korver to stay when so many valuable UFA's are looking for that last shot at a championship.

Imagine this three seasons ago: no JJ, no Horford, no Josh, no Marvin....this board would have been livid or happy predicting a number 1 pick while looking forward to, or not, several more lottery picks to come. Yet here we are in the playoffs, stealing games from the #1 seed, cap room for next season, and the 15th pick in a very strong draft.

Ferry put it together, Bud makes it work...its all good from my three year viewpoint!

Edited April 20, 2014 by Buzzard

[NBASupes]

Ferry is some garbage from a personnel standpoint. Millsap was a good value but it doesn't make us close to a contender.

[Guest]

I voted for win this series. We win this series and beat a #1 seed then I think it's better than the Nuggets of 94,Knicks of 99, Warriors of 2007, Grizzlies of 2011 and Sixers of 2012. All those teams had more talent that ours. Plus the Sixers one doesn't even count in my mind cuz Rose got hurt in game 1. Think about it...

Nuggets had Mutombo, Rauf, Ellis, Stith

Knicks had Sprewell, Camby, Houston, LJ

Warriors had Baron, Jax, Ellis, Harrington

Grizz had Zbo, Gasol,,Conley

Sixers had iggy, Holiday, Young, Brand

We have Teague, Millsap, Korver

We have to be the team with the least talent of those 5 clubs. You can argue Warriors and Sixers but again Sixers would have lost to Bulls with Rose.

We win against Pacers it could be the biggest upset ever.

[Buzzard]

Ferry is some garbage from a personnel standpoint. Millsap was a good value but it doesn't make us close to a contender.

So you think just because we want CP3 or D12, Ferry should be able to invent that; or maybe he can invent a fantasy trade like Millsap and Lou for Love.

We got arguably the 3rd or 4th best free agent and 2nd or 3rd best that left his team last season in Millsap. Passing on Jefferson has not looked good but his injury history is not looking good right now either. I would much rather have Millsap playing at 100% vs Jefferson limping down the court.

Ferrys #1 goal was to change our culture. Bud, Milsap, Korver are solid starts. Until we start at least resembling a class franchise, trying to get first class free agents is futile. Next season with our pick and cap, just maybe we can attract one more player of Milsap and Korvers ability and reputation.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

Let's just be honest here. Ferry started off with draft picks and lots of money. He basically had a clean slate. Here's the truth part.

He chose the right coach.

He missed on his draft picks (so far).

The money was spent better than average.

He wanted to get rid of Teague but couldn't.

The Sap, resigning of Korver, Antić, and DMC picks were great for this series. However, none of that would have equated to nothing without Teague.

It's funny to me... The stone that the "builders" rejected has become the Chief cornerstone of the building. That's right, this conversation is bourne out of the fact that "an average to below average" PG is busting Indiana's ass.

So what praise should Ferry get? Thanks for getting the right coach. Thanks for doing the right knee Jerk after losing D-12 and Paul. Thanks for getting us the League's only stretch 5. It's working in this series!!

[Buzzard]

Let's just be honest here. Ferry started off with draft picks and lots of money. He basically had a clean slate. Here's the truth part.

He chose the right coach.

He missed on his draft picks (so far).

The money was spent better than average.

He wanted to get rid of Teague but couldn't.

The Sap, resigning of Korver, Antić, and DMC picks were great for this series. However, none of that would have equated to nothing without Teague.

It's funny to me... The stone that the "builders" rejected has become the Chief cornerstone of the building. That's right, this conversation is bourne out of the fact that "an average to below average" PG is busting Indiana's ass.

So what praise should Ferry get? Thanks for getting the right coach. Thanks for doing the right knee Jerk after losing D-12 and Paul. Thanks for getting us the League's only stretch 5. It's working in this series!!

I got to question Teague being on the trade block. I think that was more Milwaukee and Drew wanting Teague than it was us wanting to dump him. All Ferry did was keep his cards close to his vest and he let the market set Teagues' salary.

The Bucks were desperate to unload Jennings; I don't think we were desperate to unload Jeff at all.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

I got to question Teague being on the trade block. I think that was more Milwaukee and Drew wanting Teague than it was us wanting to dump him. All Ferry did was keep his cards close to his vest and he let the market set Teagues' salary.

The Bucks were desperate to unload Jennings; I don't think we were desperate to unload Jeff at all.

Nawl. We let Milwaukee sign Teague. We left Teague out there for a long time. That's the kinda stuff that causes problems between a team and it's player. It was really like we didn't want Teague. That's how Teague felt, that's how Danny played it.

Earlier this week, Teague told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that he didn’t expect the Hawks to match and that he hasn’t had much contact with Atlanta’s front office during free agency.

Tell me... what kind of idiot does that to a player who he expects to be a leader of his team? Ferry's original plan was to showcase Teague and trade him off as soon as possible. Then Horf went down and Bud didn't like Dennis.

[Randy]

So, just getting rid of Marvin was an accomplishment. He hired a good coach. He drafted Scott. he signed Korver, Milsap and Carroll. He unloaded JJ's contract. He found Pero (and I wasn't a fan of that move originally.) These are the plus side.

On the other side -if we are not in tank mode, he picked the wrong center in the draft. He didn't get anything for Josh. Jenkins might end up being another draft mistake. He failed to get Howard, Paul etc - which may have never been in the cards anyway.

I'd say he's done more good than harm, and most of the minus side on the list have some room for argument or are too early to tell.

[Diesel]

So, just getting rid of Marvin was an accomplishment. He hired a good coach. He drafted Scott. he signed Korver, Milsap and Carroll. He unloaded JJ's contract. He found Pero (and I wasn't a fan of that move originally.) These are the plus side.

On the other side -if we are not in tank mode, he picked the wrong center in the draft. He didn't get anything for Josh. Jenkins might end up being another draft mistake. He failed to get Howard, Paul etc - which may have never been in the cards anyway.

I'd say he's done more good than harm, and most of the minus side on the list have some room for argument or are too early to tell.

When you really look at Ferry... I had been saying he's a BK clone, just not as smart... But in actuallity, he's Babcock.

Babcock had a nack for f---ing up and then by knee jerk happening upon something really good.

For instance:

Draft Rumeal.

Traded Rumeal for Mookie.

Trading Dominique for Danny Mannings Sack Sweat.

Trading Willis for Grant Long and Steve Smith.

Trading Augmon and Long for nothing.

Signing Deke.

Stuff like that. I say Ferry's on the same wavelength. Neither of them could draft worth a damn. Neither of them seem to have any plans. They were just in the moment kind of guys.

[Buzzard]

Nawl. We let Milwaukee sign Teague. We left Teague out there for a long time. That's the kinda stuff that causes problems between a team and it's player. It was really like we didn't want Teague. That's how Teague felt, that's how Danny played it.

Tell me... what kind of idiot does that to a player who he expects to be a leader of his team? Ferry's original plan was to showcase Teague and trade him off as soon as possible. Then Horf went down and Bud didn't like Dennis.

If Ferry wanted to dump Teague he would have. See Josh Smith. Furthermore, Irsan or anyone for Teague would have worked just fine in a SNT. The Bucks had enough cap to sign him outright; the contracts matching rule did not apply.

Did he listen to offers for Teague? I think he would be a idiot not to. No one is untouchable...

Edited April 21, 2014 by Buzzard

[Wretch]

@Diesel - Totally agree. I've been saying that Ferry looks like a "better" Babcock since the beginning. As for the subject at hand.

I think a lot of people misinterpret hate for concern/criticism. Folks hated on Teague (I didn't) and they hated on Joe - not too many people hate Ferry or the moves he's made. They just question if it'll succeed - and they're right to question his plans, the path he's taking is unconventional and honestly without precedent.

Nobody hated Millsap, Korver, or DMC...we were more concerned about starting over vs. trying to maintain a competitive roster.

***IF***

^^^and that's a big if

If we could pull out this series AND make it out of the 2nd round, then there are quite a few of us that'll have to eat some crow over the direction we're going. Otherwise, we're still in the same place we've been for decades.

Anyone remember this big win?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGnlW5bkSow

What about this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7oMw05vakE

Or this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFaASniGcG4

Nobody is hating on Danny Ferry or any of these players (except the Teague haters). People are however questioning if a contender can be built without really "rebuilding" - which again, is virtually unprecedented. Danny did good with what he had and really, nobody disagreed with this being a "GOOD" team. I think we all predicted a playoffs appearance and expected a 6-8 seed finish.

The real question is whether or not Ferry's methods will be validated by anything that happens in these playoffs. A 1st round victory wouldn't validate it for me. We'd have to get out of the 2nd round. And if we're talking about that...then there are only a handful of people on this board who had the kind of blind optimism to predict an ECF's appearance.

It's also just one game in the first round. It's nice and I'm hoping for the best, but let's hold the confetti and champagne until we actually win the series.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Wretch

[DrReality]

I think Budz and Ferry are sending a message to the league that the culture has changed, that this is a place for FA, that Atl can win. That's the win-win

[GameTime]

Nawl. We let Milwaukee sign Teague. We left Teague out there for a long time. That's the kinda stuff that causes problems between a team and it's player. It was really like we didn't want Teague. That's how Teague felt, that's how Danny played it.

Tell me... what kind of idiot does that to a player who he expects to be a leader of his team? Ferry's original plan was to showcase Teague and trade him off as soon as possible. Then Horf went down and Bud didn't like Dennis.

Because Ferry played his cards right and made the league set Teague's value he wanted to get rid of him?

He should of gave Teague the money he wanted instead of waiting for a cheaper value? That is not what great GMs do.

He should of talked to Teague during the process?.... and tell him what exactly? "We want you back but we need to see how much the league value's you so we can match". I'm not sure how much that would of helped.

[Diesel]

Because Ferry played his cards right and made the league set Teague's value he wanted to get rid of him?

He should of gave Teague the money he wanted instead of waiting for a cheaper value? That is not what great GMs do.

He should of talked to Teague during the process?.... and tell him what exactly? "We want you back but we need to see how much the league value's you so we can match". I'm not sure how much that would of helped.

Point out any team leader who when his contract came up, the GM let the league set his price? You do that kind of thing for players you want to trade. We could have gotten Teague for cheaper than 8 million per so what did Ferry's gamble really do for us? Alienate our starting PG? Yes he should have talked to Teague during the process. Why leave him out there wondering? It's not the way that you "Change a Culture".

[Buzzard]

Point out any team leader who when his contract came up, the GM let the league set his price? You do that kind of thing for players you want to trade. We could have gotten Teague for cheaper than 8 million per so what did Ferry's gamble really do for us? Alienate our starting PG? Yes he should have talked to Teague during the process. Why leave him out there wondering? It's not the way that you "Change a Culture".

Everyone and their mother knew the Bucks had interest in Teague; and it was no secret they wanted to dump their starting PG Jennings. Maybe Ferry should have communicated better with Teague; but at the same time it probably would have been a lie for Ferry to tell him that under no circumstances would he be moved.

The rumor mill was almost 100% out of Milwaukee; and I cannot find one that stated we were actively engaged in trade talks for either Teague or Horford. It was free agency, the rumors were flying and lying, and the only thing that happened was we matched Teagues offer sheet.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Buzzard