AJC: An Unfamiliar Buzz About the Hawks

[Guest]

Id only trade lou. Than use whats left in free agency

Yep - I'll trade Lou for even a future 2nd to just clear cap space, that $5.4mil. Edited May 6, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[Diesel]

Time for more reality from Diesel.

We got lucky this playoff season. We caught a fragile team whom we had a matchup advantage and we played it out for what it was worth. Now, i wouldn't be surprised to see Washington with their bigs and their shooters 4-0 Indy.

What we have to do is realize our strengths, weaknesses, and address them.

We definitely have coaching strength. We definitely have shooting strength. But where we are weak is on the boards. In the post. And in players who can score when called on. Horford will help with Boards. However, I have never viewed Horf as a down low guy. He doesn't have the moves to be that. Whereas Millsap has more moves down low than Horf, I don't think that's his game either. So what should we do.

IF we want to continue gaining traction with the type of play we did against Indy... You get Hawes. He's a damn near 50% from three guy. But he's Charmin soft.

I don't think we should get Monroe from either a money point of view or a Position point of view. He's not a 5. He doesn't play downlow. He's a poor man's Horf.

Gortat and Dalembert are manly men who will be available... but BBIQ? Still both can play defense down low.

On the wingman side of things, there are two guys that stick out to me: Trevor Ariza and Loul Deng. I also like Afflalo but that's a trade...

Ariza gives you a guy who is still young, still healthy, can shoot and can defend. Deng gives you an old guy who is falling apart but could be a solid defender. Deng wouldn't fall apart so fast with us because he'd split time with Korver and DMC.

What will we do: Ive said it. Patty Mills and Hawes. The money fit. The players are Ferry type players.

[Guest]

If we are going after 'Charmin tissue soft' Hawes then we need to get another big like Jordan Hill who can do some dirty work on the board and in the paint.

[nathan2331]

If we are going after 'Charmin tissue soft' Hawes then we need to get another big like Jordan Hill who can do some dirty work on the board and in the paint.

We also need to get rid of Antić then. No need for 2 soft bigs on the team.

[Bahamut]

There was a similar buzz in 2008. This is nothing new, unless you're new to Atlanta, or you're a sports radio station less than 5 years old.

[hawkman]

Indy is not the second best team. The Wizards are more talented and that will show in this series. Man I wish the Hawks could get a guy like Beal!

Also, the Hawks can't rely on hoping other teams fall apart for ascension. That's what they were doing and it's a losing strategy.

Beal would be absolutely perfect for this team. But I think the Hawks can find a taller version of him in the draft in James Young.

[bird_dirt]

What we have to do is realize our strengths, weaknesses, and address them.

.....We definitely have shooting strength. But where we are weak is on the boards. In the post. And in players who can score when called on. Horford will help with Boards. However, I have never viewed Horf as a down low guy......So what should we do.

IF we want to continue gaining traction with the type of play we did against Indy... You get Hawes. He's a damn near 50% from three guy.

/Does not compute.

I don't understand why on one hand you say shooting is a strength and that we need a big to play down low, hit boards, etc (and I'm going to guess you are talking about needing someone who plays more than spot minutes off the bench) then your first move we need to do is get a soft big who plays outside and shooting is his one strength.

Not that I would hate having Hawes mind you, it just seems contradictory to the point you were trying to make.

I know not many would like to have him, but I'd like it if Ferry were to try to make a trade for Larry Sanders. He isn't a big banger, but can play down low, rebound, play D, and I think could be available for the right package. Especially if they end up drafting Embiid or something. I think he would bounce back to what he was capable of when he got that contract if he got out of the black hole called Milwaukee.

[Guest]

/Does not compute.

I don't understand why on one hand you say shooting is a strength and that we need a big to play down low, hit boards, etc (and I'm going to guess you are talking about needing someone who plays more than spot minutes off the bench) then your first move we need to do is get a soft big who plays outside and shooting is his one strength.

Not that I would hate having Hawes mind you, it just seems contradictory to the point you were trying to make.

I know not many would like to have him, but I'd like it if Ferry were to try to make a trade for Larry Sanders. He isn't a big banger, but can play down low, rebound, play D, and I think could be available for the right package. Especially if they end up drafting Embiid or something. I think he would bounce back to what he was capable of when he got that contract if he got out of the black hole called Milwaukee.

Larry Sanders comes with an $11 million dollar price tag until the 2017/2018 season - Who are we including in a trade for him?

Lou ($5.4 mil) and who?

Edited May 6, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[bird_dirt]

Larry Sanders comes with an $11 million dollar price tag until the 2017/2018 season - Who are we including in a trade for him?

Lou ($5.4 mil) and who?

Ah, well, you know, that's Ferry's job to figure out, not mine. This is a message board and my only responsibility is to be an ideas man and shoot my mouth off. If I got paid like Danny, I could figure it out.

JK.

In all honesty, if I weren't typing like a monkey from my phone, I'd actually try to look up salaries and such, but I'm only committed so much when I'm mobile.

[bird_dirt]

Larry Sanders comes with an $11 million dollar price tag until the 2017/2018 season - Who are we including in a trade for him?

Lou ($5.4 mil) and who?

Ah, well, you know, that's Ferry's job to figure out, not mine. This is a message board and my only responsibility is to be an ideas man and shoot my mouth off. If I got paid like Danny, I could figure it out.

JK.

In all honesty, if I weren't typing like a monkey from my phone, I'd actually try to look up salaries and such, but I'm only committed so much when I'm mobile.

[bird_dirt]

Thanks to said phone, I accidentally double posted making me sound like an echo chamber. Apologies.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

No thanks on Larry Sanders. That dude is overpaid, had one good half season, and is a head case. Not a Ferry guy. Plus, he is a converted PF. And you know who Larry Sanders reminds me of? Lucas "Bebe" Noguiera who will prolly be on the roster next season on ROOKIE salary and isn't a head case.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

A lot of you who are advocating keeping most of this roster together, and just adding role players, are falling into a dangerous trap. It's the same trap that we fell into back in 2008, when we thought the talent here was "just fine", and we basically re-signed every rotation player on the squad in a 3 year period.

And I'm not going to be a hypocrite. I thought re-signing guys like Marvin, Zaza, and Bibby were sound moves for keeping the chemistry of the team together. I thought keeping JJ was the right move, even if we overpaid for him. And while I thought that we HAD to trade either Smith or Horford for a PG or a more talented C, I wasn't freaking about keeping those two either.

Hawk fans, make no mistake. We CANNOT keep this roster together, just because they pushed arguably the shakiest #1 seed ever to 7 games. I truly don't see how anybody can look at the rest of the Eastern Conference, and think that we are a top 4 squad, without some SIGNIFICANT UPGRADES on this team.

- If Miami stays together, they will be above us

- Although Indiana is having major problems right now, they will stay above us ( if they keep Lance Stephenson )

- Chicago will be getting Derrick Rose back + potentially a max free agent

- Brooklyn, although old, still has a veteran laden team that is a very good basketball team.

- Washington has potentially a young East All-Star backcourt with two versatile big men who are sound both offensively and defensively

- Toronto also has a potential young East All-Star backcourt with good role players surrounding them

- Even Charlotte with Al Jefferson is maybe a very good wing player away from being a 45+ win team.

The Hawks have a good building block of talent with Horford, Millsap, and Teague. If they all played to their potential, that's 3 guys who will get All-Star consideration. But what we don't have that all of the above teams have, is a guy who can be a go-to scorer. A guy who you can give the ball to and say . . . "take us home man". Horford is the closest to being that. But he's really not. If he was, he would be like LaMarcus Aldridge. And he isn't even close to LA's level as an elite offensive player.

In free agency, the Hawks can't target guys who will simply be "glue guys". They need to target people who could possibly keep elevating their games to an All-Star level ( and beyond, if possible ).

The Hawks were so fragile this year, that anytime we had Horford + another rotation player out of the lineup, this team basically collapsed. As much as I like guys like Mike Scott and Shelvin Mack, it's really no way they should be back here, if we're serious about challenging for an East title. And we can't keep throwing out a starting lineup of Carroll and Korver, and expect them to outscore the opposing wings . . . because it didn't happen for most of the year.

I liked the fact that we made the playoffs, but what is going on now, is the danger of making the playoffs. You can't look at this team right now, and say, oh we just need a Spencer Hawes and we'lll be OK. We just need a Lance Stephenson ( whom I really want this offseason ) and think we'll be OK.

No folks. We need more than that. A LOT MORE. Don't let a good run vs the most unstable #1 seed since the 2007 Dallas Mavericks fool you into believing that we just need a few role playing pieces.

[Buzzard]

I am not all that hyped about this seasons free agent class. Ariza and Gortat? I know Bron, Wade, Bosh, and Melo could be; but after them its slim pickings. Valued UFA's don't move much and I expect at most two or three will move this off season.

The new NBA cap/luxury penalties will be on the minds of Indy, Detroit, Washington, and a few others. But the projected cap rising 5 million dollars is a double edged sword. It helps us by increasing our free cap; but helps others by keeping them below or within the 1st penalty level...

Edited May 6, 2014 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

I meant valued RFA's don't move much....

[Diesel]

If we are going after 'Charmin tissue soft' Hawes then we need to get another big like Jordan Hill who can do some dirty work on the board and in the paint.

That's what Horf is for. He's 10 rebounds walking.

[Buzzard]

A lot of you who are advocating keeping most of this roster together, and just adding role players, are falling into a dangerous trap.

The Hawks were so fragile this year, that anytime we had Horford + another rotation player out of the lineup, this team basically collapsed. As much as I like guys like Mike Scott and Shelvin Mack, it's really no way they should be back here, if we're serious about challenging for an East title. And we can't keep throwing out a starting lineup of Carroll and Korver, and expect them to outscore the opposing wings . . . because it didn't happen for most of the year.

We are not falling into a trap. It is not like any fan can make such a decision for our team; and that includes you and I.....

Calling us fragile when our best player gets injured is ludicrous. If the Clips lose Paul or Blake they will be fragile lmao....

With all this being said, I want an upgrade at SG/SF. I do think Horford and SAP equal one of the best overall one/two front line combos in the league. And I do think Teague is well above just being a serviceable starting Point Guard...

We need help and I am in agreement, we can't throw our money out there only because we have it. Quality is what we need. If we cannot get that in free agency this season, then one year deals and try again next season. I think Ferry is plenty smart enough and will not lock us into any bad long term contracts that cripple us. He dumped all those as you pointed out.

His experience in Cleveland was with a desperate spend now/win now owner. We are not that team and he knows this. Until we can compete for a championship; our long term payroll will always be flexible enough to make a great move if and when one arises...

Edited May 6, 2014 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

/Does not compute.

I don't understand why on one hand you say shooting is a strength and that we need a big to play down low, hit boards, etc (and I'm going to guess you are talking about needing someone who plays more than spot minutes off the bench) then your first move we need to do is get a soft big who plays outside and shooting is his one strength.

Not that I would hate having Hawes mind you, it just seems contradictory to the point you were trying to make.

I know not many would like to have him, but I'd like it if Ferry were to try to make a trade for Larry Sanders. He isn't a big banger, but can play down low, rebound, play D, and I think could be available for the right package. Especially if they end up drafting Embiid or something. I think he would bounce back to what he was capable of when he got that contract if he got out of the black hole called Milwaukee.

Well, first and foremost. I didn't say "our first move should be...." I said if you want to continue to play the way that we played against Indy THEN we should get Hawes.

Here's the rationale.

What we did against Indy was put our 5 out on the perimeter and used our guards to penetrate when they could with the advantage of knowing that if the defense collapsed there were 4 other guys who can hit a three pointer. In my day, it was a zone buster offense. It took advantage of slow footed defenders who didn't want to leave the paint. The key is that the three pointer is a weapon. Teams that can hit the three with efficiency will kill their opponents simply by breaking them. If a team is trading 2s with 3s, eventually they will break. We were able to do this to Indy until they realized that Antić was shooting 13% and that the only nonstreaky guys out there were Korver and Mack.

So what do you do if you want to play that "3ball offense". You get a 5 who can hit the three more than 40% of the time. That's Hawes. He will actually stretch the defense.

The 3ball offense is not my cup of tea but it fits perfectly with Bud because he does the team defensive rebounding, the getting back on defense and not getting offensive rebounding and Very high pick and roll.

I'm more of a Pick and Roll (Jerry Sloanlike) type of guy. Where you can either have a pick n roll, pick and pop, or pickett fence offense.

[Buzzard]

Larry Sanders comes with an $11 million dollar price tag until the 2017/2018 season - Who are we including in a trade for him?

Lou ($5.4 mil) and who?

We don't have to include anyone else. With Lou's 5.4 being moved in the deal we have more than enough cap to eat the rest of Sanders contract. In all likelihood the same with Monroe in a SNT, and the same with a lot of players. Problem is, most teams will want more than just Lou for a valued player on a somewhat reasonable deal. A pick and/or another player....

Edited May 6, 2014 by Buzzard

[Guest]

@Diesel - Per Danny Ferry (on radio this morning) the 5 out 3 ball was a direct side effect of Al getting hurt.

He and Bud got together after Al got hurt and it was determined the team would have to take at least 30 3's a game. With Al back it's more PnR/PnP.