Hawks pursuing Asik

[AHF]

The difference is that I don't consider Asik as being poor talent. This guy is a 7 footer who can get double double numbers. He also blocks shots and defends the post well. We show that we don't know about team building with a willingness to only improve by the draft. That doesn't work.

He isn't a poor talent. I never said that. I think he is overpaid (15M > value); he had a bad attitude last year (which both lowers his value to other teams and makes Houston more desperate to unload him); and he is a poor fit in terms of basketball for Houston (he and Howard don't mesh well). Add in the fact that Houston will be desperately trying to clear cap room and you have a situation where Houston should either be paying to unload the player or should be getting back basically nothing. They would love to get assets for him but I just think that is very unlikely considering how publicly terrible Houston's leverage is in a trade, but I suppose it is possible if at least two teams start a bidding war in a trade scenario. I just don't expect a bidding war at all or one that will end up near a first round pick in price.

[Diesel]

Agreed he's not a bum. But you don't give up quality assets (quality players and/or 1st round picks) for guys who their teams are dying to get rid of.

Sometimes you do. We're not talking about a lottery pick. We're talking about prolly picking 20+ in the first round. Sorry but we get the better of that deal if you ask me. How many more Jared Cunninghams and John Jenkins do you want???

[Diesel]

He isn't a poor talent. I never said that. I think he is overpaid (15M > value); he had a bad attitude last year (which both lowers his value to other teams and makes Houston more desperate to unload him); and he is a poor fit in terms of basketball for Houston (he and Howard don't mesh well). Add in the fact that Houston will be desperately trying to clear cap room and you have a situation where Houston should either be paying to unload the player or should be getting back basically nothing. They would love to get assets for him but I just think that is very unlikely considering how publicly terrible Houston's leverage is in a trade, but I suppose it is possible if at least two teams start a bidding war in a trade scenario. I just don't expect a bidding war at all or one that will end up near a first round pick in price.

I don't know where this bad attitude is coming from? I mean, he had a starting position and then watched his team sign his replacement. So he asked to be traded? Whats so bad about that? If that's the case, you need to say that Horf has a bad attitude too. Hasn't he requested that the Hawks get a big to play C for going on 5 years now?

[Nicholasp27]

Hou tried to unload him all year but couldn't get anything decent...it won't take a first to get Asik

[Admin]

Sometimes you do. We're not talking about a lottery pick. We're talking about prolly picking 20+ in the first round. Sorry but we get the better of that deal if you ask me. How many more Jared Cunninghams and John Jenkins do you want???

I'm not giving up ANY picks to help Morey out of the corner he backed himself into. If Asik were getting paid $5 million real money with his $8.4 million cap hit next year then maybe we have to give up an asset but we're seriously helping them by saving them a ton of real money for next season so we shouldn't have to pay to help them, they should be paying us to help. I know that the "welfare mentality" of Hawks fans makes us think we should always bend over for teams but we aren't doing that anymore.

[AHF]

I don't know where this bad attitude is coming from? I mean, he had a starting position and then watched his team sign his replacement. So he asked to be traded? Whats so bad about that? If that's the case, you need to say that Horf has a bad attitude too. Hasn't he requested that the Hawks get a big to play C for going on 5 years now?

Asik wanted to be traded and is widely thought to have faked an injury last season to avoid playing.

Horford has never asked to be traded and never been accused of anything other than doing his best to help his team win. If he thinks the team needs more size on the interior that is very different because any objective observer recognizes we have had a problem with a lack of size for going on 5 years now.

So I don't buy the comparison at all.

[macdaddy]

Asik wanted to be traded and is widely thought to have faked an injury last season to avoid playing.

Horford has never asked to be traded and never been accused of anything other than doing his best to help his team win. If he thinks the team needs more size on the interior that is very different because any objective observer recognizes we have had a problem with a lack of size for going on 5 years now.

So I don't buy the comparison at all.

And Horford has mentioned wanting to play the 4 about twice and the echo chamber around here acts like he's picketing. He signed a long term deal with no starting center in sight. He's talked more about how great it was playing with Josh than about how badly he supposedly wants out of the 5 spot.

I'm just not seeing the big whoop on Asik. As others said he's a good center but at 35 minutes a game Zaza can give me 10 and 12. I know Asik is a superior defender but it's not like we're talking a big time free agent here. So my point is what is a better front line Horford/Asik Millsap/Horford. I contend it's the latter.

[Admin]

For me I start Horford and Millsap then about 5 minutes in I bring in Asik at C for one of them and then after another 5 minutes I bring in the guy who went to the bench to replace the other guy. That gives them all 10 minutes in the 1st quarter and gives us a very different look as a team with each of the 3 combo's.

[macdaddy]

For me I start Horford and Millsap then about 5 minutes in I bring in Asik at C for one of them and then after another 5 minutes I bring in the guy who went to the bench to replace the other guy. That gives them all 10 minutes in the 1st quarter and gives us a very different look as a team with each of the 3 combo's.

That sounds good. Just not $40 million good.

[Admin]

That sounds good. Just not $40 million good.

Where are you getting $40 million? I guess you mean in real dollars? In cap dollars that's only $30 million and we have 3 distinctly different combo's we can get out of that group and we match up well offensively and defensively.

[macdaddy]

Where are you getting $40 million? I guess you mean in real dollars? In cap dollars that's only $30 million and we have 3 distinctly different combo's we can get out of that group and we match up well offensively and defensively.

Right. It's actually 39 right? 12+12+15.

[Admin]

Right. It's actually 39 right? 12+12+15.

12 (Horford)

9 (Millsap)

8.5 (Asik)

29.5 million cap dollars

12 (Horford)

9 (Millsap)

15 (Asik)

36 million real dollars

[macdaddy]

12 (Horford)

9 (Millsap)

8.5 (Asik)

29.5 million cap dollars

12 (Horford)

9 (Millsap)

15 (Asik)

36 million real dollars

was thinking Millsap made more. Still that's a lot of bucks tied up in 3 4/5s.

[Admin]

was thinking Millsap made more. Still that's a lot of bucks tied up in 3 4/5s.

It's not that much for guys who are all playing 30 minutes and are difference makers. Hell there's lots of guys who are making over 20 million alone who wouldn't put up what these guys could together or even close.

[AHF]

For me I start Horford and Millsap then about 5 minutes in I bring in Asik at C for one of them and then after another 5 minutes I bring in the guy who went to the bench to replace the other guy. That gives them all 10 minutes in the 1st quarter and gives us a very different look as a team with each of the 3 combo's.

By my count they get:

5 for Millsap/Horford

5 for Horford/Asik

2 for Millsap/Asik

= 10 minutes for Horford, 7 minutes for Asik, Millsap

I agree with your basic premise, though, that these guys should all be playing 30-35 minutes per game (with some of those being Sap at the 3).

Edited May 19, 2014 by AHF

[Diesel]

I'm not giving up ANY picks to help Morey out of the corner he backed himself into. If Asik were getting paid $5 million real money with his $8.4 million cap hit next year then maybe we have to give up an asset but we're seriously helping them by saving them a ton of real money for next season so we shouldn't have to pay to help them, they should be paying us to help. I know that the "welfare mentality" of Hawks fans makes us think we should always bend over for teams but we aren't doing that anymore.

Actually, the part you are missing is that we're helping ourselves. How hard is it to get a quality big man in this league. So you're worried about Morey getting Melo?? Really? That's a curse too. He already has D12... He's cursed enough. I don't care if Morey prospers and meets us in the finals, we're helping our own cause not his.

[Diesel]

Asik wanted to be traded and is widely thought to have faked an injury last season to avoid playing.

Horford has never asked to be traded and never been accused of anything other than doing his best to help his team win. If he thinks the team needs more size on the interior that is very different because any objective observer recognizes we have had a problem with a lack of size for going on 5 years now.

So I don't buy the comparison at all.

"Widely thought".... You act as though Houston doesn't have doctors? When Asik did come back, wasn't it his coach talking about his knee swelling up?? You can really fake those knee swells right? Here's the secret, when a player complains of a back injury, that can be faked. However, a knee injury can't. or Maybe Derrick Rose has been faking for the last 2 seasons.

[JTB]

It's not that much for guys who are all playing 30 minutes and are difference makers. Hell there's lots of guys who are making over 20 million alone who wouldn't put up what these guys could together or even close.

Like I said...if this happens I'm cool with it as long as we don't trade sap. But I will say you guys really ignore the offense side of the ball when asik is in the game...so much that it's amazing!

But hey I can roll with it but as soon as we need some offense and defense in late stretches I wouldn't be surprise if sap is put in over asik or at the 3.

I guess my biggest thing about adding asik is just that...in the situation we need both offense and defense in the game, what lineup is bud going to turn to? Will sap be on the bench? How about asik riding the bench when it really matters? Or will both be in the game?

That's a huge question that should be answered before making such a move for asik.

[Admin]

By my count they get:

5 for Millsap/Horford

5 for Horford/Asik

2 for Millsap/Asik

= 10 minutes for Horford, 7 minutes for Asik, Millsap

I agree with your basic premise, though, that these guys should all be playing 30-35 minutes per game (with some of those being Sap at the 3).

Don't be getting all mathematical on me now! The 3rd combo would still be on the floor starting the 2nd quarter, for at least 3 minutes.

They would all make a nice trio though and would present us with matchup nightmares for almost anyone we play.

[Admin]

Actually, the part you are missing is that we're helping ourselves. How hard is it to get a quality big man in this league. So you're worried about Morey getting Melo?? Really? That's a curse too. He already has D12... He's cursed enough. I don't care if Morey prospers and meets us in the finals, we're helping our own cause not his.

I know that your favorite thing to do is to help out the other team in your trades but we don't need to do that here. That's the part you are having trouble with. This isn't the old Atlanta Hawks regime. No sense in us giving up assets that we can use to draft young bench fillers or use in other trades with teams who will actually require a draft asset in return.