Merged: Kings interested in Dennis Schröder? (Putting #8 pick on trading block)

[AHF]

I'm all for making a trade IF you can get a guy who's going to be really good, but not just because it's "the eighth pick".

While there's no guarantee he'll put it all together, Dennis has ability. And he's only 20.

I agree with this 100%. I look at the list of lottery picks for this draft and I see 8 guys who I would happy to land.

Frankly, I would not pull the trigger at #10 in this draft because I would no longer see 10 guys that I would be happy to land. (I might not do it at 9 - would have to look more closely).

So I see two things: (1) I think the trade value is higher and would like to see us in the Love sweepstakes so trading that lotto pick gets us further down that road than giving Minny a new backup PG and (2) I see 8 guys who I would do the deal for, making the trade "safe."

I am still very high on Dennis and think he can still blossom into a stud. This shouldn't be taken as a slap against him - more a statement that I see him as a potential stud with 3 years on his rookie deal and a PG starting in front of him the next 3 years while I see 8 potential studs with 4 years on their rookie deal and a better fit for team rotation in the draft.

[DJlaysitup]

The idea that any team is interested in trading anything of value for Dennis Schröder is comical...on par with Melo coming here.

It's not going to happen.

That said...get a wing at the #15 and rest of the guys stay healthy we will have a good team next year....up there with Cleveland battling it out for the #6 or 7 spot in the playoffs (better than this year...hanging on at 38-44 to the worst record in the playoffs).

Who will pass us? Probably Cleveland...and maybe Boston (lord knows what they will do)...who can we pass? Maybe Charlotte or the NJ Nets. I can see us in the running for another playoff deal. If we work real hard and do our best with Coach Bud we can stay out of the lottery. Maybe advance to #7 next year...possibly even 6th in the EC....but I wouldn't count on that.

.

welcome to reality you anti-tankers.

Edited May 23, 2014 by DJlaysitup

[AHF]

The idea that any team is interested in trading anything of value for Dennis Schröder is comical...on par with Melo coming here.

It's not going to happen.

That said...get a wing at the #15 and rest of the guys stay healthy we will have a good team next year....up there with Cleveland battling it out for the #6 or 7 spot in the playoffs (better than this year...hanging on at 38-44 to the worst record in the playoffs).

I think it is much more realistic that a team would trade something of value for Dennis. Much, much more realistic. I think there are plenty of NBA people who still see a lot of upside in him and for good reason.

Melo coming he is comical and isn't happening.

[Admin]

I'm all for making a trade IF you can get a guy who's going to be really good, but not just because it's "the eighth pick".

While there's no guarantee he'll put it all together, Dennis has ability. And he's only 20.

Dennis Schröder Hawks 2014 Season Highlights

Boy oh boy those passes make me remember why I like this kid so much. I'd have to be damned sure that there's someone I really, really liked at 8 to move him. We might be better off trying to move Mack + Lou and see if that gets us a 1st round pick and combine that with the 15th to move up.

[Admin]

I agree with this 100%. I look at the list of lottery picks for this draft and I see 8 guys who I would happy to land.

Frankly, I would not pull the trigger at #10 in this draft because I would no longer see 10 guys that I would be happy to land. (I might not do it at 9 - would have to look more closely).

So I see two things: (1) I think the trade value is higher and would like to see us in the Love sweepstakes so trading that lotto pick gets us further down that road than giving Minny a new backup PG and (2) I see 8 guys who I would do the deal for, making the trade "safe."

I am still very high on Dennis and think he can still blossom into a stud. This shouldn't be taken as a slap against him - more a statement that I see him as a potential stud with 3 years on his rookie deal and a PG starting in front of him the next 3 years while I see 8 potential studs with 4 years on their rookie deal and a better fit for team rotation in the draft.

I don't see nearly as much room for the very likely PF we'd end up with at 8. I'm happy with Millsap and Scott at PF and hope to see both of them in Hawks uniforms for the next several years. For me unless we're getting a top 5 pick this is not a no brainer trade. I just don't feel good about being stuck at 8 with what we have on our team now.

[sturt]

I agree that Bebe and Schröder are both guys who we can't assess after one year. However, the idea that we flip the #15 pick in 2013 for the #8 pick in 2014 and that constitutes selling at "pre-iPad prices" doesn't make sense to me. I would get that argument if you were talking about trading him for the 22nd pick or something but moving to the middle of the lottery doesn't fit with your analogy.

My comment specifically focuses on Schröder and his value in Summer 2013, which was #15. His value one year later is different, and by the measure of some who've posted to this thread, seems appreciably less than the #15 slot where he was selected. I, for one, still see him capable of evolving within five years to be among the top 25% of NBA PGs.

That's all I'm getting at... if other NBA GMs think similarly to Schröder's detractors here, Schröder's value within the overall Summer 2014 package for a #8 pick is going to not count for nearly as much as some of us think it should. I'm not saying "don't trade him," but I am saying I'm inclined to think most and probably all trade proposals Ferry would receive will undervalue him.

[sturt]

I am still very high on Dennis and think he can still blossom into a stud. This shouldn't be taken as a slap against him - more a statement that I see him as a potential stud with 3 years on his rookie deal and a PG starting in front of him the next 3 years while I see 8 potential studs with 4 years on their rookie deal and a better fit for team rotation in the draft.

Fair enough.

[Diesel]

Here's a great article from grantland today on the draft and opinions are definitely different than they were a few months ago. I mentioned a few months ago that scouts were cooling on this draft class and I caught some crap for it.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/ryen-russillos-nba-draft-confidential-real-scouts-on-wiggins-randle-embiid-and-parker/

A couple of quotes and remember that these are coming from 3 different scouts with differing opinions as well as Ryen Russillo.

I just included a couple quotes on Wiggins since his stock has probably dropped the most. Everyone seems high on Embiid if he is healthy, but that is a big IF. Even Parker and Randle have a lot more holes in their game than most people thought. Anyways, interesting read.

On Wiggins:

All that said, let me give you your five franchise changers:

#1. Embiid, No doubt about it. He will be the Next Hakeem. His is naturally athletic which is something we haven't seen in a big in a while.

#2. Parker. This guy is a game changer like Kobe.

#3. Exum. Damn, wish we could get this guy. He is a 6'6" offguard who shows skills to do it all.

#4. Randle. I'm sold on this guy. He's not as big as I want but unlike Horf, this guy has goto moves. This may be the real next Karl Malone.

#5. Smart. It's been a while since we've seen a right sized PG who can score at will. His problem will be shooting, but give him to Mark Price and you have yourself a diamond.

Now, there are others who will be really good for their teams: Jeremi Grant, Rodney Hood, T J Warren, and Zach Levine. I agree and have always said that Wiggins is Marvin Williams part II. There's something about Vonleh that I like and don't like but if Wiggins or Vunleh fall to #8... you have to consider them strongly.

For those who think that this draft is as weak as 2006 (Shelden's draft).. Think again. This draft is Marvin's draft or better. Possibly Smoove's draft.

[DJlaysitup]

I think it is much more realistic that a team would trade something of value for Dennis.

I certainly hope you are right AHF...and you usually are. I just didn't see much of value in Dennis's 1st year.

Of course I'm the guy who said Rondo was a silly pick because he couldn't shoot the ball

Edited May 23, 2014 by DJlaysitup

[Admin]

I certainly hope you are right AHF...and you usually are. I just didn't see much of value in Dennis's 1st year.

Of course I'm the guy who said Rondo was a silly pick because he couldn't shoot the ball

And the guy who said we'd signed Bynum...

[Diesel]

I don't see nearly as much room for the very likely PF we'd end up with at 8. I'm happy with Millsap and Scott at PF and hope to see both of them in Hawks uniforms for the next several years. For me unless we're getting a top 5 pick this is not a no brainer trade. I just don't feel good about being stuck at 8 with what we have on our team now.

I don't know what position Scott really plays. He's a hybrid forward because even though we played him up to the 5, he was softer than lucky charms marshmallows against West and them... He just may be a 3. However, I can't say I know what the future will hold, but if we get Randle, he may be our 4 of the future. He's rugged and powerful and could be an allstar at the position. We have to start making room for the thought that maybe a Horf/Sapp frontcourt is not our future.

[DJlaysitup]

Boy oh boy those passes make me remember why I like this kid so much. I'd have to be damned sure that there's someone I really, really liked at 8 to move him. We might be better off trying to move Mack + Lou and see if that gets us a 1st round pick and combine that with the 15th to move up.

Maybe to 14th

[Admin]

All that said, let me give you your five franchise changers:

#1. Embiid, No doubt about it. He will be the Next Hakeem. His is naturally athletic which is something we haven't seen in a big in a while.

#2. Parker. This guy is a game changer like Kobe.

#3. Exum. Damn, wish we could get this guy. He is a 6'6" offguard who shows skills to do it all.

#4. Randle. I'm sold on this guy. He's not as big as I want but unlike Horf, this guy has goto moves. This may be the real next Karl Malone.

#5. Smart. It's been a while since we've seen a right sized PG who can score at will. His problem will be shooting, but give him to Mark Price and you have yourself a diamond.

Now, there are others who will be really good for their teams: Jeremi Grant, Rodney Hood, T J Warren, and Zach Levine. I agree and have always said that Wiggins is Marvin Williams part II. There's something about Vonleh that I like and don't like but if Wiggins or Vunleh fall to #8... you have to consider them strongly.

For those who think that this draft is as weak as 2006 (Shelden's draft).. Think again. This draft is Marvin's draft or better. Possibly Smoove's draft.

Holy crap @Diesel pump the brakes man. The next Hakeem? Right now he's looking like the next Oden with his back problems. Kobe like game changer? Where was that this season when he would disappear on the court for long stretches? The next Karl Malone? Are you honestly comparing these guys to some of the greatest players of all time?? These kids may end up being good players but let's pump the brakes on the unnecessary fluffing here. They're far more likely to be busts than they are hall of famers.

[Diesel]

My comment specifically focuses on Schröder and his value in Summer 2013, which was #15. His value one year later is different, and by the measure of some who've posted to this thread, seems appreciably less than the #15 slot where he was selected. I, for one, still see him capable of evolving within five years to be among the top 25% of NBA PGs.

That's all I'm getting at... if other NBA GMs think similarly to Schröder's detractors here, Schröder's value within the overall Summer 2014 package for a #8 pick is going to not count for nearly as much as some of us think it should. I'm not saying "don't trade him," but I am saying I'm inclined to think most and probably all trade proposals Ferry would receive will undervalue him.

The best things that Schröder has going for him is defensive awareness and offensive passing. His shot is not impressive. His control and attitude makes him less desirable as a point. He wants to hotdog instead of win. That's why he turns it over so much. He wants to be the attraction. Impress me with your ability to lead your team to win. If we don't trade Schröder at draft time, he better show that he has worked on his shooting and his attitude. However, Teague has a stranglehold on that position. He not only delivered, he led.

[DJlaysitup]

My comment specifically focuses on Schröder and his value in Summer 2013, which was #15. His value one year later is different, and by the measure of some who've posted to this thread, seems appreciably less than the #15 slot where he was selected. I, for one, still see him capable of evolving within five years to be among the top 25% of NBA PGs.

You must be watching different games...let's remember that in 3-4-5 years there will be plenty of other PGs coming out of college....with generally better overall training and just as quick.

P.S. - Dennis Schröder's overall numbers for "rookie of the year were:

Zero.point.zero.

Edited May 23, 2014 by DJlaysitup

[Admin]

I don't know what position Scott really plays. He's a hybrid forward because even though we played him up to the 5, he was softer than lucky charms marshmallows against West and them... He just may be a 3. However, I can't say I know what the future will hold, but if we get Randle, he may be our 4 of the future. He's rugged and powerful and could be an allstar at the position. We have to start making room for the thought that maybe a Horf/Sapp frontcourt is not our future.

We just got rid of our logjam at the 4 and honestly we still have one if you put Horford at his natural position. I just can't justify taking a very questionable PF like Randle when we've got glaring needs at C, SF and SG that are far, far more pressing.

[Admin]

You must be watching different games...let's remember that in 3-4-5 years there will be plenty of other PGs coming out of college....with generally better overall training and just as quick.

Say what now? Where is the basis for that statement coming from? Schröder is one of the quickest PGs in the league already and he's got more pro basketball experience than 99% of PGs coming into the league.

[Diesel]

Holy crap @Diesel pump the brakes man. The next Hakeem? Right now he's looking like the next Oden with his back problems. Kobe like game changer? Where was that this season when he would disappear on the court for long stretches? The next Karl Malone? Are you honestly comparing these guys to some of the greatest players of all time?? These kids may end up being good players but let's pump the brakes on the unnecessary fluffing here. They're far more likely to be busts than they are hall of famers.

Did you see Kobe's first year with the Lakers? I think that this draft is the best we will see for a while. I watched these guys purposefully (except for Exum who I really think will be great). There are a few who just really speak to me strongly and there are some who got hype and I still don't see why. However, those 5 are going to be really, really good and teams that miss out on them will hate themselves. It's been a long wait. Having 1 really really good player in the draft and such... but this year, the basketball gods have granted the league a gift. This class. This may be a stronger class than Howard's.

[Jody23]

This was a from last year during the Hoop Summit where all the top guys in this years draft were prominently featured. Dante Exum (# 7) even makes a few appearances.

Dennis Schröder Atlanta Hawks Draft Pick - Nike H:

[Diesel]

We just got rid of our logjam at the 4 and honestly we still have one if you put Horford at his natural position. I just can't justify taking a very questionable PF like Randle when we've got glaring needs at C, SF and SG that are far, far more pressing.

What about Randle is questionable?

Moreover, in a good draft, you take the best player available. I'm not saying that any current player is safe. Especially considering the nature of our frontcourt's contracts. Trades can be made... especially trades that make the team better.