Would Cavs want Horford or more?

[AHF]

I am still confused. If you are talking about "overall numbers" and "minutes they played", you are off the reservation. I think you are using that language but talking about something completely different than total production like "theoretical production if Horford would have played as many games as Duncan."

Here are the actual numbers for the last 3 years:

Overall Production

Duncan

4162 points, 2432 rebounds, 649 assists, 498 blocks, 164 steals

Horford

2109 points, 1156 rebounds, 366 assists, 145 blocks, 125 steals

Here are the per minute numbers for the last 3 years:

Per 36

Duncan

19.6 pp36, 11.4 rp36, 3.1 ap36, 2.3 bp36, 0.8 sp36

Horford

17.3 pp36, 9.5 rp36, 3.0 ap36, 1.2 bp36, 1.0 sp36

This just isn't very close regardless of how you splice the numbers unless you artificially give Horford credit for all the games he missed and then assume he could have played the same minutes per game he played when he actually was on the floor and then penalized Duncan for keeping his minutes down to stay healthy and actually play. That is hard for me to get behind as a way of looking at these two players.

[NBASupes]

I am still confused. If you are talking about "overall numbers" and "minutes they played", you are off the reservation. I think you are using that language but talking about something completely different than total production like "theoretical production if Horford would have played as many games as Duncan."

Here are the actual numbers for the last 3 years:

Overall Production

Duncan

4162 points, 2432 rebounds, 649 assists, 498 blocks, 164 steals

Horford

2109 points, 1156 rebounds, 366 assists, 145 blocks, 125 steals

Here are the per minute numbers for the last 3 years:

Per 36

Duncan

19.6 pp36, 11.4 rp36, 3.1 ap36, 2.3 bp36, 0.8 sp36

Horford

17.3 pp36, 9.5 rp36, 3.0 ap36, 1.2 bp36, 1.0 sp36

This just isn't very close regardless of how you splice the numbers unless you artificially give Horford credit for all the games he missed and then assume he could have played the same minutes per game he played when he actually was on the floor and then penalized Duncan for keeping his minutes down to stay healthy and actually play. That is hard for me to get behind as a way of looking at these two players.

Per36 is averaging out the mins. I am not averaging out the mins. I know Duncan is a much more productive player than Horford. I am saying, Horf will play 35-36 a game and Duncan is avg much less than that in the regular season. That matters like Horf's injuries matter.

[AHF]

Per36 is averaging out the mins. I am not averaging out the mins. I know Duncan is a much more productive player than Horford. I am saying, Horf will play 35-36 a game and Duncan is avg much less than that in the regular season. That matters like Horf's injuries matter.

I get what you are saying now but I don't get the connection between your statement (Horford is overall more productive than Duncan over the last 3 years) and those numbers. Because Horford averages 6 more minutes per game over the last 3 years doesn't make him more productive when he plays a small fraction of the total minutes that Duncan did over those 3 years and is less productive in every minute the two of them play. You can put up an argument about what things might look like next year if Horford is fully healthy but looking back at the last 3 years is an absolute no-brainer.

[NBASupes]

I get what you are saying now but I don't get the connection between your statement (Horford is overall more productive than Duncan over the last 3 years) and those numbers. Because Horford averages 6 more minutes per game over the last 3 years doesn't make him more productive when he plays a small fraction of the total minutes that Duncan did over those 3 years and is less productive in every minute the two of them play. You can put up an argument about what things might look like next year if Horford is fully healthy but looking back at the last 3 years is an absolute no-brainer.

Those six minutes extra is huge. He did lead the NBA for mins played for the first 15 games this season. I see what you are saying but I made my points clear as well. Either way, Horford is not Duncan. Duncan is in a class of his own. Top 3-5 all time player. Only would take KAJ and Wilt over him.

[AHF]

The 6 minutes are only huge if the numbers of games are high. When you play six extra minutes one game and don't play the next game, then those 6 extra minutes lose their significance.

Horford has played less than 50% of games over the 3 year period you referenced so I don't buy the significance of those extra 6 minutes over that period of time.

[NBASupes]

The 6 minutes are only huge if the numbers of games are high. When you play six extra minutes one game and don't play the next game, then those 6 extra minutes lose their significance.

Horford has played less than 50% of games over the 3 year period you referenced so I don't buy the significance of those extra 6 minutes over that period of time.

Outside of two freak injuries. Horford is one of the most heathiest players on the Hawks over his career.

[AHF]

Outside of two freak injuries. Horford is one of the most heathiest players on the Hawks over his career.

I agree that outside of those two injuries, he has been healthy. But I don't know for sure that they are freak injuries with the repetition and for the 3 years we are talking about he has been one of the least healthy people in the entire league.

My hope is that they are freak injuries and he goes back to playing 78 games a year every year for the rest of his career. However, he needs to earn back some of that previous reputation for reliability at this point.

[NBASupes]

I agree that outside of those two injuries, he has been healthy. But I don't know for sure that they are freak injuries with the repetition and for the 3 years we are talking about he has been one of the least healthy people in the entire league.

My hope is that they are freak injuries and he goes back to playing 78 games a year every year for the rest of his career. However, he needs to earn back some of that previous reputation for reliability at this point.

I hope we can move him to PF. That would take a load off of him.

[Nicholasp27]

Glen Robinson (Big Dog): .87 for NBA career

Do we really want Parker?

Edited June 6, 2014 by Nicholasp27

[Guest]

Glen Robinson (Big Dog): .87 for NBA career

Do we really want Parker?

Seriously? That's the stat you want to throw out as a reason to not select him? Edited June 6, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[AHF]

The strongest argument against Parker is what Coach K did with him during the most important game of the year against Mercer:

[Nicholasp27]

Seriously? That's the stat you want to throw out as a reason to not select him?

His splits against bad teams vs good teams was my main argument earlier in the thread...this is a follow up to that...we were second in apg last year with spurs first...the system wants good passers, shooters, defenders...Parker is none of those

[Hairydawgz]

A Cleveland fan site had a trade set up of Horford and 15 for Tyler Zeller and 1.

Pretty sure that would not work salary-wise. I would want more if I'm giving #15 also.

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[Admin]

A Cleveland fan site had a trade set up of Horford and 15 for Tyler Zeller and 1.

Pretty sure that would not work salary-wise. I would want more if I'm giving #15 also.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now that's a very interesting proposal. Zeller is a pretty decent bench big and with the #1 we could take the guy we want or move back for multiple picks. I think I'd stick at #1 and hope that one of these guys ends up being a star that can lead a franchise. Come the 2015 offseason we'll have a ton of cash and hopefully a young star to build around plus some decent complimentary pieces.

[Admin]

His splits against bad teams vs good teams was my main argument earlier in the thread...this is a follow up to that...we were second in apg last year with spurs first...the system wants good passers, shooters, defenders...Parker is none of those

Parker has a beautiful shot and a lot of range. It's way too early to say he can't be a good shooter or defender. It may not be natural in his DNA to be a passer but who's to say that he couldn't learn that. The guy is clearly intelligent and very gifted athletically and I have to think that if we took him #1 overall it's cause coach K gave a glowing endorsement to Ferry.

[Guest]

A Cleveland fan site had a trade set up of Horford and 15 for Tyler Zeller and 1.

Pretty sure that would not work salary-wise. I would want more if I'm giving #15 also.

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Done!!!

[phoostal]

Cleveland seems to be unhappy with D. Waiters, I would like to some how include him in the deal I think he could blossom in the Atl.

[skimaskway23]

Say guys, I know this isnt the place but im having trouble getting back to the mobile version of this site. Any suggestions?

[Admin]

Cleveland seems to be unhappy with D. Waiters, I would like to some how include him in the deal I think he could blossom in the Atl.

No freaking way. There's no way I'd ever want Waiters on this team unless it's on a cheap contract as a 6th or 7th man at best. Even then I don't think he's a good fit for our style of play.

[Admin]

Say guys, I know this isnt the place but im having trouble getting back to the mobile version of this site. Any suggestions?

@skimaskway23 on the bottom left of the regular skin (while on the mobile) you should see a text link that says 'Use Mobile Version' or something like that.