Playmaker0017 Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Playmaker's Vote: Most Irrelevant Thread: Big Dog *.* Most Beaten, Deadest Horse Thread: Big Dog *.* Most Irksome Thread: Fantasy Trades that will Never Happen, Posted on the Homecourt Board Master of the Obvious Thread: Stotts isn't a Mastermind Coach Best Comedic Thread: "I'm Leaving Because You Posted a Picture of My Dad!" By the way, I am still waiting for my Christmas Card and Best Buy Gift Card, Zach. Play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoostal Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 This maybe one of the best posts on this site. Nice work Dr. Zachary. Also, I love how everyone ignores the post. Like it never appeared on their computer screens. As much as everyone likes claim they know the truth. They can't stand it when people get called out themselves. This was good stuff. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swolehawk2 Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 That is exactly how you define what a player brings by watching with your own eyes...not watching three games then hollering about stats 20 and 6...thats all you ever talk about.....when people bring up the facts that Dog didn't have intangibles, which is what we needed ..you sweep it under the rug. OK stat man....Dog avg nearly 4 TOS a game. Tell me how many layups did Dog allow. Tell me how many times did Dog fail to get back in transition. Tell me how many times did Dog hustle to make a play. See winning basketball is much more than stats. The fact is that Dog didn't help this team. I have said all along he was not our only problem...but he was a big problem. Dog shot ony 43% when he is supposedly a great shooter. He avg. nearly 4 TOs a game! Didn't play defense and jogged up and down the court nightly and you are defending him. "Well, When asked Point blank about his Decline, JT said... We really miss having Dog complete the pick and Roll... That doesn't sound negative to me. " JTs decline has been greatly exaggerated ....he is missing three assists well woopty doo! If he didn't always make bad decisions in transition JT would avg. [censored] near 10 assists a game. JT can't run a [censored] pick and roll. JT is so impressionable it is sickening anybody that comes to the Hawks he suggests that they are the savior...he is a young kid...who really doesn't know much about the game. He has Lee Nailon's number on his shoe for christ sakes. If you think Reef was upset about Dog leaving than u r a fool Reef says what the media wants him the say...the textbook answer. Look at the way they interacted on the court last year... If you want to know the affect that Dog had on the Hawks listen to Theo ....he tells it like it is. Even Stotts has alluded to the fact that chemistry was better without dog...that we shared more. If we made Jax the focal point of our offense and ran plays for Jax he could avg 20 pts a game...we probably wouldn't be a better team....but 20 point scorers sound good...but if they are like Dog and don't offer anything else ...and are liabilities on D you really don't gain anything. In reality we won't be able to tell the affect Jax has on this team until the end of the season...but it sure as [censored] won't cost us much to find out will it? If it is so easy to play D ....why didn't Dog do it. If it is so easy to get back in transition (hustle)...why didn't Dog do it If it is so easy to dribble without constantly turning the ball over.....why couldn't Dog do it. If he is such a great shooter...why did he shoot 43% "Tell me swole, where is the gain in trading Big Dog for Capspace." It is simple we got rid of a player who got paid a huge amount of money and didn't help us at all. If we needed space so badly and Dog is the stud you claim him to be I am sure we could got rid of Reef or Theo or JT. I'm done talking about Dog...I'm glad his lazy ass is outta here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted December 2, 2003 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 In reply to:That is exactly how you define what a player brings by watching with your own eyes...not watching three games then hollering about stats 20 and 6...thats all you ever talk about.....when people bring up the facts that Dog didn't have intangibles, which is what we needed ..you sweep it under the rug. Lots of times, we become biased in our opinions. I mean, that's exactly what you've done. For Example... How many times have you watched the Hawks play. Watch the whole game, then looked at the statline and said to yourselve, "[censored], It didn't look like Reef Scored 30 and pulled down 13 boards.". This happens more than you think. A lot of times because we have a tendency to become accustomed to certain players putting up certain points and when they do it, we go ho hum. Well, that's what happened with Nique. Nique would go out, score 30 with 7 boards and people would go HO hum.... Nique's not a top 50 player of all time... That's specifically why we have stats... So that when we become Biased... We can go to the hard NUMBERS and see exactly what value that player had. I will agree that there are certain times that the stats don't tell the whole story. For instance, the stats won't really tell you that Vaughn is a better PG than JT. But when you watch the game you can tell that he is... However, what I say is that YOU Cannot blame EVERY problem on Big Dog and NOT Consider: 1. Coaching. 2. Lack of PG. 3. Team incapatibilities. So, it's funny to me, that you would argue with JT And Reef. They both have said that Dog Brought a lot to the team. The stats agree. All we have that says different is Your bias opinion... So who are we to believe?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted December 2, 2003 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Dr. Z. Over 97% of the things posted on this board is irrelevant... However, the thread grows longer because people want to talk about it. If you want to discuss relevance... Let's go back to the original statement. JT says that his assists are down because he's not playing with Big Dog. I think that statement alone UNBEATS the most beaten subject. I think it also brings new thoughts to the table that I presented. SO for you to judge it as a closed subject or a subject not worth talking about is a baseless statement. If it were up to you, this would be a place where only news were talked about.... Right? And then Only opinions shared that were "Happy Thoughts" right? Unfortunately, neither of those views are popular or relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playmaker0017 Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Diesel, I don't disagree with a lot of what you said, but I think you are being biased with Big Dog. Could this team have won with Big Dog? Sure. Other teams have, thus it would only make sense that this team could. But, I don't think he was a correct fit. Just like JT is not the correct fit at PG. Big Dog was a horrible defender, rarely hustled and was beat more often then not in transition. This isn't even taking into account his propensity to chunk up stupid shots. Would a good coach solve those problems? Possibly, but we still have an awful coach. So, we would have the same awful Big Dog. We weren't going to get a good coach this year. Thus, losing BIg Dog for a spark plug that makes nothing is a great boost to this team come offseason. When we can get a decent PG and hire a real NBA coach. Play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swolehawk2 Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 ?I will agree that there are certain times that the stats don't tell the whole story. For instance, the stats won't really tell you that Vaughn is a better PG than JT. But when you watch the game you can tell that he is... " So why wouldn't this apply to S Jax being a better all around player than Dog? Because you are hypocritical. Because you think your opionion should trump mine ...when you obviously have not paid close enough attention to the what happened on the court last year. You know why I complained about Dog all summer...because I went back and watched tape...I watched tape of Dog with and with out the ball.....if you really want to have fun with this argument....I challenge anybody to watch tape of last year closely and tell me what you think of Dog. "However, what I say is that YOU Cannot blame EVERY problem on Big Dog and NOT Consider:" I never said he was the root of our problems...I said that he didn't help us...and that Jax is a better all around player. Stop twisting words. And as far as listening to any player... I think Theo has the best understanding of winning basketball than anybody on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drzachary Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Do you need a hug, Diesel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted December 2, 2003 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 I might have some bias towards big Dog. But More correct is that I don't believe it's fair to say that HE was the bad fit when He is gone and we still have the same problems. I think really a lot of our team is a Bad fit and it's hard to point at just one without pointing at the other. For instance, had we had a better PG and better coaching, I believe that things would have been different with the way that Big Dog played here. Seriously, Lon just threw guys out there with NO roles defined and told them to win... On top of that, he had a PG that loves to defer the duties of PGing to other players. I have a hard time believing a Career 20 ppg player with a career 45% FG% all the sudden overnight became a problem child for his team. It's a lot of perception... Not enough reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted December 2, 2003 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Why wouldn't I apply the same to Jax... Because when I watch Jax play and I watch him launch up three after three after three and disrupt the flow of the game with his compadre Glover... And then when I realize that Jax is shooting worse than Grob every did, I say that Hawksquawk is full of some hypocritical bastards... I mean you guys called Grob Big Hog... But with the same tongue you praise Jax who shoots a worse percentage. Also, what I say swole is what is JT really saying when he says "we miss Grob"? To me it sounds like he's saying that Grob did some things that SJax doesn't do. I mean, you figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playmaker0017 Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Diesel, He may have been a 20 PPG scorer, but he was lax on the defensive end. That was always the rap. I never knew it, and when I did hear it, it was too late. The thing you keep saying is that: "He is gone and we still have the same problems" That is simply because we still haven't filled the greatest void this team has.... which is a REAL coach. So whether or not Big Dog was here or not here, we would still be in the same pot. Maybe we'd have a few more wins, maybe not. One thing is for sure, we wouldn't be a playoff bound team. We would still need structure. I would MUCH prefer Big Dog at the SF then Jackson. You could move Jackson over to SG, and I think we would be improved as we lose Dion Glover. But, we did save on salary and this WILL pay off when the new owners officially take the reigns. Play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swolehawk2 Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 If I have to hear from you one more time that Dog avg. 20 pts and can shoot...I am going to vomit....there is more to basketball than 20 pts a game....what else about Dog's game is any good? What else did Dog bring to this team? This is getting old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playmaker0017 Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Diesel, No one "praises" Jackson. In fact, some have called for him to get benched. The problem is that we still have Glover, so you just run over which is the lesser of two evils. What we DO praise Jackson for is his energy on the court. He cheers, he motivates, he screams, he has fire. These are qualities NONE of the Hawks exude. Sometimes it isn't the statistical line that you can count on. Look at Kukoc. He did the little things to keep the team moving. Play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted December 2, 2003 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Well Swole, The Fact that Dog is a Career 20 ppg scorer is one thing... That means that He draws defenses away from our best player SAR. You must not remember the year before how Reef was double and tripled on a nightly basis. However, what you make light of Is that Dog pulls down 7 boards a game. Thats not easy. Only 2 other Sfs get those kind of rebounding numbers... Marion and Odom. And Odom is 6'10. The point is that in scoring and rebounding dog is one of the top Sfs. That's awesome. If you say that's not enough, then you must hate the [censored] out of Nique? Let's get real and honest. Nique wasn't a great or good defender. Nique wasn't a great assist man, in fact, he was called a black hole. In Fact, Nique didn't rebound as well as Dog. So when you get Nique's high powered offense, is that not enough also?? Please go vomit and be hypocritical in your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted December 2, 2003 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Nique was laxed on defense too. I can recall times when Jordan/Johnson would come to town, Nique would cherry pick... He would camp out at the scorer's table like he was on break and we join the team back up the court to play offense. Dog doesn't move laterally as well as smaller Sfs, but Dog was not guilty of not trying. JT is also Laxed on defense. Nobody ever mentions it, but Olay is a permanent part of JT's vocab... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swolehawk2 Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Because Jax hustles and plays D and takes charges and dives for loose balls and provides toughness for less money.... and guess what.... he shoots 40% while doing all these things...while Dog shot 43% while doing none of them. I mean, you figure it out. You are quoting JT...of course he misses his dawg...I mean he has to go to the club with somebody. JT is the same cat who said that teams wouldn't be able to stop us when Dog arrived. JT also said it is time for him to step up and be a leader. Some advice don't listen to anything JT says to the media. We need to move JT to SG and tell him to shut up and score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playmaker0017 Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Diesel, Okay, let's start off with the Nique vs. Big Dog comparison... there is none. Big Dog cannot dribble. Nique could. Nique could create a shot and change the flow of the game by hitting a hard dunk. Dog cannot do either of those things. With that out of the way, Reef STILL saw double and triple teams WITH Big Dog in the lineup. Very little changed. In fact, he saw the ball less because Big Dog wanted to be the man. Big Dog is simply NOT with the team anymore. Any other opinions are just that. Opinions. Currently, the guy isn't even playing for the team we sent him to. So, let's just stop. Play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted December 2, 2003 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Jax plays d?? Where is Jax's d when we have given up Career/Season highs to: Iverson, QRich, Hughes, Eddie Jones, Al Harrington, and Zach Randolph... Jumping on the floor and scurring after loose balls is good. But you also have to contribute in the MAJOR ways....Scoring, rebounding, Assists, Steals, Blocks... Hustle doesn't create wins on it own.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playmaker0017 Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Diesel, WHO doesn't mention JT's lack of defensive ability? I have shouted over and over that our two guards cost us nightly and that Theo gets all these blocks because small guards are getting in the lane almost every play. Play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playmaker0017 Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 Too bad most of those guys were matched against Dion Glover. Play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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