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Is the 3-star model dying before our eyes?

sturt

By sturt
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sturt Grand Master

sturt

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Given all that the newest CBA does to try to discourage the mockery that the Heat made of the championship by their hired gun ways, and given how team ball and defense has so defiantly come back in the form of SA... are we watching the 3-star model die before our eyes? Whaddayathink?

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GameTime Grand Master

GameTime

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Duncan-Parker-Ginobli all took less $ (10-12-7 million respectively)

This allowed them to have money for a deep team.

I can definitely see ball movement and 3 point shooting becoming a priority for teams now.

Hawks need more shooters for this offense, but I am glad that we hired Bud right now.

OT: Coach Pop owes Coach Bud! Kawhi is the NEXT PIPPEN

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TheNorthCydeRises Grand Master

TheNorthCydeRises

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Given all that the newest CBA does to try to discourage the mockery that the Heat made of the championship by their hired gun ways, and given how team ball and defense has so defiantly come back in the form of SA... are we watching the 3-star model die before our eyes? Whaddayathink?

No. It only proves it even more.

Duncan is a Hall of Fame player. But at this stage in his career, he's much like Kareem was in the Lakers last two championships in the 80s. He's not "the man", but he is still a vital player to what they did as a team. He's still the offensive rock of the Spurs, and a vital part of what they do on offense and defense. He's still a top 10, arguably top 5 big man in this league, especially come playoff time.

Parker is in the prime of his career. He had a bad 1st half, but he started to take over the game in the 2nd half. He's going to be an All-NBA caliber player for the next 3 years or so. He's also going to the Hall.

Ginobli had a horrific series last year, but played his role beautifully in this playoff season. And like Duncan, he has the ability to make timely plays at the drop of a hat.

But the future star of this team is undoubtedly Kawhi Leonard. He really answered the bell in those last 3 games, and has been a steady player all throughout the playoffs. The next step for him is to be able to assume a much greater role offensively for the Spurs. Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli all had regular season Usage % of over 24%. Leonard was only at 18%. As Leonard's usage rises into the low and mid 20% range, you'll see just how good this kid can be.

The Spurs are a great team. But you still need star players within a team, to become champions. Parker, Duncan, and Ginobli are still stars . . . and they may have found one more in Leonard.

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TheNorthCydeRises Grand Master

TheNorthCydeRises

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And even past 3 star teams had big time role players off the bench that could step up and get it done.

In Miami's past 2 titles, it was guys like Battier and even Mike Miller who stepped up in big moments, along with of course Ray Allen, and got the job done.

In the past, it was always one of the shooters that came up big time for the Bulls, to help Jordan and Pippen out.

With the 80s Lakers, it was first the emergence of James Worthy, and then Byron Scott in the latter championships, that led them to 5 titles in the decade.

And with Boston's "Big 3", Parish was always the steady force in the middle, along with starters like Ainge, Dennis Johnson, and the first MVP of those Bird Boston teams, Cornbread Maxwell coming up big time.

You need that star core to power your team, and then you need role players stepping up. If your core isn't good enough though, you're not winning championships.

With Boston's Big 3, it was Rondo who started to emerge as a star ( much like what Leonard is doing right now )

Listening to Popvich right now talk about Leonard. He basically told him to have a mentality of . . "to hell with Timmy, to hell with Tony, to hell with Manu, you play your game. You are the man". That's an exact quote from Pop. That's him telling that to what many believe is the 4th best player on the team . . but Pop is basically telling him that you ARE the best player on the team.

That's why people can't overlook the talent aspect in what the Spurs really are. The system may bring the best out of their players, but you have to have very talented players within that system, to really see them achieve the maximum level that they can.

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Ruckus Newbie

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It could definitely be argued that Ginobli and Parker would not be HOFers if it wasn't for the Spurs system. No such argument for Duncan but I think Popovich makes his players look good in general. Please don't read to far into what I am saying. Ginobli and Parker are GREAT players but the San Antonio system has made them HOFers, not their overwhelming talent.

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NBASupes Grand Master

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Please. As said before.... James and DF were together in Cleveland

Danny Ferry was the GM of the Cavaliers for five years and you may expect me to crush him, but I'll be honest and say that his tenure wasn't actually that bad in Cleveland. Obviously at the time the Cavs had LeBron James and every expectation was to simply win an NBA Championship. While the team won a whopping zero NBA Finals games during that time, it'd be foolish to call it an abject failure. It'd be similarly foolish to put all the blame on Ferry. It's important to remember that despite what people may now say about LeBron James' teammates in Cleveland -- those were some pretty damn good teams. No matter how good LeBron was/is, you don't just win 60+ games two seasons in a row with a bunch of scrubs.

As far as the moves that Ferry made, none were really spectacular and none were catastrophic. He traded for Mo Williams for practically nothing and that actually worked out pretty well. Perhaps his biggest misstep was failing to trade away Wally Szczerbiak's expiring contract in 2008-09. He wasn't much of a contributor on that team and he had a massive contract that was about to expire. The Cavaliers could have traded that away and gotten another piece to help push for a title, but Ferry failed to make such a move. The other set of moves that I would label as "questionable" revolve around Antawn Jamisonand Shaq.

After a dominant 2008-09 regular season in which the Cavs won 66 games and swept the first two rounds of the playoffs, they ran into a nightmare (or Dwightmare, if you will) in the Eastern Conference Finals. The 2009 Orlando Magic were the worst possible matchup for those Cavs and probably the only team in the NBA that could beat them given the perfect conditions. Well, as you know, the Magic got those perfect conditions. They shot a ridiculous percentage from three and Dwight Howard was simply too much for eitherZydrunas Ilgauskas or Anderson Varejao. The next year, the Danny Ferry and the rest of the front office basically decided that they had to prepare this team to take down the Magic. They acquired Shaquille O'Neal from the Suns and he played pretty well, to be honest. He battled some injuries, but was overall still a solid player (18 points and 10 rebounds per 36 minute). The Cavs also managed to trade for Antawn Jamison for essentially nothing. They sent a first round pick and Ilgauskas' expiring contract to Washington and later re-signed Big Z once he got bought out. Jamison was intended to stretch the floor against Orlando and open up the paint for LeBron. Shaq was meant to be a big body that could at least slow down Dwight Howard. The Cavaliers never refused to give up JJ Hickson for Amare Stoudemire. That just didn't happen. The Suns wanted more for Amare, but I digress. The series of moves looked good at the time and nearly every expert on ESPN or wherever else picked the Cavaliers to win the 2010 title. Unfortunately, they ran into a buzz saw against the Boston Celtics with a rejuvenated Kevin Garnett and never even got another shot at the Magic. Ultimately, the biggest flaw in Ferry's tenure was his overlooking of the Celtics. He incorrectly assumed that the Magic were the only real resistance for the Cavs to get to the Finals in 2010 and they got burned for it.

Ultimately, Ferry didn't have a ton to work with. There was constant pressure to win immediately, something that I think he'll have a bit more time with in Philadelphia. He also won't have to work to appease a superstar at every turn. While it was disappointing that the Cavaliers never won a championship with LeBron James, they did put together some nasty teams. Obviously there are things that Ferry could have done better (drafting being one of them), but he wasn't a total failure. I truthfully have no idea how he'll do in Philly. It's a completely different situation because, well, there really is no situation quite like what he was dealing with in Cleveland.

I don't think Ferry did a bad job. More then even Riley, he tried to put a team that fit around Lebron skill-set but he needed a star or superstar. They didn't have anyone at Teague's level and traded nothing for Mo Williams. They didn't have a young talent as talented as Dennis. They didn't have young bigs like Bebe. They never a top 10-15 star who can be much greater with Lebron like Horford. Remember, we can always trade Millsap easily for a decent center. Always. But even Sap is one of the better PF's in the NBA and all around stud on offense with range and can create create. I think Lebron would see Atlanta as a suped up Cavs team he had in Cleveland which has been more successful as a team then his Heat teams in the regular season.

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PSSSHHHRRR87 Enthusiast

PSSSHHHRRR87

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If anything, overpaying mediocre talent is dying. People will always dream of teaming up Jordan/Magic/Bird and if you're a GM sitting there with cap space and a chance to sign three superstar players, you do it.

And I would argue that the Spurs have three stars w/ Parker, Duncan, and Leonard. Gino, Mills, Splitter, and Green w/ Pop at the helm is a great supporting cast too. Problem with the Heat is that they have $66 mil invested in only three guys and Spo is a nothing more than Pat's sock puppet. Wade is done and I think it's a damn pity when I see 6'11" Chris Bosh standing stationary in the corner. The whole team just passes the ball to LBJ and expects him to do something. Just ride LeBron's coattails to a title. Even Marco Bellineli contributed for the Spurs.

I know LBJ would make every team in the league better, but him on the Hawks is a great fit. We space the floor with Sap and Horford and we have the best playmaker in the league attacking the hoop and dishing it out to KK for three. Teague and LBJ would dominate the lane.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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NBASupes Grand Master

NBASupes

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If anything, overpaying mediocre talent is dying. People will always dream of teaming up Jordan/Magic/Bird and if you're a GM sitting there with cap space and a chance to sign three superstar players, you do it.

And I would argue that the Spurs have three stars w/ Parker, Duncan, and Leonard. Gino, Mills, Splitter, and Green w/ Pop at the helm is a great supporting cast too. Problem with the Heat is that they have $66 mil invested in only three guys and Spo is a nothing more than Pat's sock puppet. Wade is done and I think it's a damn pity when I see 6'11" Chris Bosh standing stationary in the corner. The whole team just passes the ball to LBJ and expects him to do something. Just ride LeBron's coattails to a title. Even Marco Bellineli contributed for the Spurs.

I know LBJ would make every team in the league better, but him on the Hawks is a great fit. We space the floor with Sap and Horford and we have the best playmaker in the league attacking the hoop and dishing it out to KK for three. Teague and LBJ would dominate the lane.

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I don't know about the rebounding but the spacing would be great. If Lebron comes, I would actually be cool with trading him for Asik.

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sturt Grand Master

sturt

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I could have sworn that I read over and over again after the latest CBA was enacted that reports said there were provisions that were designed to strongly discourage reverse collusion.

But now that I go to look for what those provisions are, I'm finding the complete opposite--that there isn't anything new in this way.

So, perhaps my question is premature after all.

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