From a team point of view... Teague = Better than Westbrook.

[AHF]

I disagree.. Teague would've had a monster year if Horford was on the court. Most of Teagues passes were screwed over by poor shooting and over-passing. I remember him being toe to toe with CP3 before AL got hurt. The first 29 games he averaged 16.8 points, 8.2 assists and 2.9 rebounds with a 42.1 shooting percentage from the field and an average 5.8 free throw attempts per game. Now thats definitely a huge difference. Don't forget that the entire team was learning a new system. So those numbers could've been higher later in the year if Horford stayed healthy.

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Can't disagree with this one more strongly. Teague was not some amazing passer and shot creator last season and he wasn't "screwed over by poor shooting." The team was still well above average on FG% after Horford went down for the season.

Teague runs hot and cold and he had one of hot streaks to start the season. You absolutely cannot take that performance to the bank.

I do agree that having Horford back will help him but the craptastic level of play he had for much of last season was not primarily the product of Horford going out. It was Teague hitting one of his cold spells combined with the disadvantage of Horford going down. Teague picked it back up late in the year without an appearance by Horford simply because he was playing better then.

Edited June 23, 2014 by AHF

[willthepureshooter]

I disagree with your claims that he's NEVER COULD average 9 assist a game. He's a better passer than Tony Parker. And he lacks the weapons that Parkers been surrounded with. How can his numbers look like any other point guard? Lol. Please explain because you're acting as though Teague's average.

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[willthepureshooter]

Can't disagree with this one more strongly. Teague was not some amazing passer and shot creator last season and he wasn't "screwed over by poor shooting." The team was still well above average on FG% after Horford went down for the season.

Teague runs hot and cold and he had one of hot streaks to start the season. You absolutely cannot take that performance to the bank.

I do agree that having Horford back will help him but the craptastic level of play he had for much of last season was not primarily the product of Horford going out. It was Teague hitting one of his cold spells combined with the disadvantage of Horford going down. Teague picked it back up late in the year without an appearance by Horford simply because he was playing better then.

Huh? So, based on your logic his supporting cast was adequate enough to create this end all be all assumption?? I guess if you take him and put him with the Spurs his numbers wouldn't increase? That doesn't make much sense in basketball terms. In that case, Melo should stay in New York with bum gang because his numbers won't improve with new talent. . smh. Are we shooting from the hip now?

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[IheartVolt]

Teague is average. Much of last year is a good example of that

[AHF]

I disagree with your claims that he's NEVER COULD average 9 assist a game. He's a better passer than Tony Parker. And he lacks the weapons that Parkers been surrounded with. How can his numbers look like any other point guard? Lol. Please explain because you're acting as though Teague's average.

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Teague is an average, at best, passer to date in his career. He was average overall during the regular season last year - playing well above average for portions of the year and well below average for several periods. He picked it up in the playoffs and needs to carry that higher level of play forward over a longer period of time.

[IheartVolt]

Teague is the 3rd best player on the roster. He played much better in the playoffs but was absent in a large amount of games last year.

I would love to see Jeffrey play at the same lvl all year as he did in the playoffs.. However I may be from Missouri

[IheartVolt]

Teague is an average, at best, passer to date in his career. He was average overall during the regular season last year - playing well above average for portions of the year and well below average for several periods. He picked it up in the playoffs and needs to carry that higher level of play forward over a longer period of time.

Exactly

[willthepureshooter]

Teague is an average, at best, passer to date in his career. He was average overall during the regular season last year - playing well above average for portions of the year and well below average for several periods. He picked it up in the playoffs and needs to carry that higher level of play forward over a longer period of time.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/PG

He's ranked #12 in point guard rankings so how in the world can he be average? You're talking about 11 other point guards with a better supporting cast (except Charlotte). Don't forget that these other point guards had systems that depended their offensive contributions heavily. Besides that, Teague assist average is higher than half of those ranked higger than him. Now whose going to argue facts?

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[AHF]

Huh? So, based on your logic his supporting cast was adequate enough to create this end all be all assumption?? I guess if you take him and put him with the Spurs his numbers wouldn't increase? That doesn't make much sense in basketball terms. In that case, Melo should stay in New York with bum gang because his numbers won't improve with new talent. . smh. Are we shooting from the hip now?

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I am not sure I follow what you are saying.

If he played for the Spurs, he would have averaged 10% fewer minutes per game which would depress his numbers. His assist numbers would have a chance to go up but the Spurs are actually less reliant on their PG for running the offense than last year's Hawks so I don't think their better offense would necessarily translate into higher assists when Duncan, Manu and Kawhi would do much more ballhandling than their Atlanta counterparts.

In terms of Carmelo, I am again not sure what you are saying. Melo's numbers would go way down if he played in Miami, for example, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't go to a team with better talent. Better teammates might improve his shooting %s but they will depress his rebound and FGA numbers. The real reason to move to a team with a better group of teammates isn't to improve his stats - it is to win more games. Bosh's numbers get seriously hurt playing for Miami compared to Toronto but he is playing for rings in Miami versus playing for a total non-contender with the Raptors so I surely don't fault him for making that decision because the purpose was to win more not generate higher stats.

With Teague, he was not hurt compared to other PGs in the league based on his team's poor shooting: the Hawks were well above average for the season and were still above average when Horford was out. Teague's poor shooting was partly attributable to his teammate's lack of talent but that doesn't explain why, for example, his shooting compares so very unfavorably to someone like Isaiah Thomas and that cast of sub-mediocrity in Sacramento. It is primarily attributable to Teague simply not shooting the ball very well last season. Teague is not ever going to be confused with Rondo or Nash or any great passer. He has improved himself into adequacy as a passer and that could work just fine in the type of egalitarian system that the Spurs/Hawks will be running. I am just not going to confuse a hot spurt of Teague's for a transformation into an elite passer.

[ViperXX79]

I'm not sure I take too kindly to AHF's logical post. There were not enough flights of fancy. Maybe sprinkle in DMC being just as good as Lebron...

[AHF]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/PG

He's ranked #12 in point guard rankings so how in the world can he be average? You're talking about 11 other point guards with a better supporting cast (except Charlotte). Don't forget that these other point guards had systems that depended their offensive contributions heavily. Besides that, Teague assist average is higher than half of those ranked higger than him. Now whose going to argue facts?

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Apparently you ignored the many issues with Teague last season. Hanging you hat on a flawed stat that puts Kemba Walker over Ty Lawson, Tony Parker and Mike Conley isn't going to do it.

Teague turns the ball over more than most PGs. He turns the ball over like an elite scorer or a sub-par PG. By way of comparison, his A/TO ratio was actually worse than Lou Williams.

Chris Paul Jose Calderon Andre Miller Ricky Rubio Shelvin Mack Kyle Lowry Devin Harris Steve Blake Mike Conley George Hill Jameer Nelson Brandon Jennings Deron Williams Ty Lawson Kemba Walker Tony Parker Jrue Holiday Greivis Vasquez D.J. Augustin Beno Udrih John Wall Derek Fisher Kirk Hinrich Damian Lillard Patrick Mills Shaun Livingston Ramon Sessions Patrick Beverley Louis Williams Kyrie Irving Jeff Teague

He shot the ball worse than most PGs. Here are his peers in TS% last season:

Nate Robinson, Derek Fisher, Jeff Teague, Ramon Sessions, Grievez Vazquez

Stephen Curry Goran Dragic Jose Calderon Patrick Mills Chris Paul Eric Bledsoe Jimmer Fredette Darren Collison Isaiah Thomas Jeremy Lin D.J. Augustin Damian Lillard Kyle Lowry Mario Chalmers Deron Williams George Hill C.J. Watson Tony Parker Ty Lawson Tim Hardaway Shaun Livingston Louis Williams Russell Westbrook Patrick Beverley Mike Conley Nate Robinson Derek Fisher Jeff Teague Ramon Sessions Greivis Vasquez

You can keep going with all this stuff.

WS/48:

Chris Paul Stephen Curry Kyle Lowry Goran Dragic Russell Westbrook Manu Ginobili Patrick Mills Mike Conley Damian Lillard George Hill D.J. Augustin Isaiah Thomas Tony Parker Eric Bledsoe Ty Lawson Darren Collison C.J. Watson John Wall Kyrie Irving Deron Williams Jose Calderon C.J. Miles Patrick Beverley Andre Miller Shaun Livingston Ricky Rubio Mario Chalmers Reggie Jackson Derek Fisher Jeremy Lin Nate Robinson Jeff Teague Greivis Vasquez

PER:

Chris Paul Russell Westbrook Stephen Curry Goran Dragic Isaiah Thomas Kyle Lowry Kyrie Irving Mike Conley Eric Bledsoe John Wall Ty Lawson Tony Parker Patrick Mills Damian Lillard Tyreke Evans Deron Williams Jeff Teague

Rebounds per 36:

Russell Westbrook Eric Bledsoe Thabo Sefolosha Reggie Jackson Andre Miller Ricky Rubio Kyle Lowry Jrue Holiday Shaun Livingston Chris Paul J.R. Smith Stephen Curry Kemba Walker George Hill John Wall Patrick Mills Patrick Beverley Shelvin Mack Brandon Knight Jameer Nelson Steve Blake Kyrie Irving Devin Harris Jimmer Fredette Leandro Barbosa Ty Lawson Damian Lillard Monta Ellis Jordan Crawford Greivis Vasquez Mario Chalmers Nate Robinson Goran Dragic Darren Collison Ramon Sessions Jeremy Lin Beno Udrih Kirk Hinrich Brandon Jennings Aaron Brooks Mike Conley Louis Williams Derek Fisher Isaiah Thomas C.J. Watson Mo Williams Deron Williams Jeff Teague

Edited June 23, 2014 by AHF

[IheartVolt]

Ouch!! Game over

[jy23]

Again, you have to look at the measure at which you're measuring Westbrook. Try this... Erase his ability to score from memory. What does Westbrook do?

But what's the point of doing that? Take away KDs ability to score....then what? Westbrook plays good d, is a great rebounder for his position, and is an average passer. What now?

[Diesel]

Teague is an average, at best, passer to date in his career. He was average overall during the regular season last year - playing well above average for portions of the year and well below average for several periods. He picked it up in the playoffs and needs to carry that higher level of play forward over a longer period of time.

I would say he picked it up in the 3rd trimester of the season.

By Month GP MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS October 1 34.0 7.0-13.0 .538 1.0-4.0 .250 9.0-12.0 .750 0.0 2.0 2.0 9.0 0.0 4.0 3.0 6.0 24.0 November 17 32.9 5.6-14.0 .399 0.5-2.4 .195 5.2-6.4 .817 0.6 2.2 2.8 8.1 0.2 1.2 2.0 3.2 16.9 December 14 34.4 6.1-13.6 .450 1.1-2.9 .400 3.2-3.9 .833 0.6 2.4 3.0 8.3 0.1 1.2 2.3 3.4 16.6 January 11 29.2 4.7-12.6 .374 0.5-2.7 .167 3.7-4.4 .854 0.5 1.9 2.4 4.6 0.2 1.2 2.1 3.2 13.6 February 11 31.7 5.8-13.0 .448 0.7-1.9 .381 3.6-4.1 .889 0.4 1.5 1.9 5.8 0.3 0.8 1.9 2.5 16.0 March 16 32.1 5.9-12.9 .456 1.1-2.9 .383 3.7-4.3 .868 0.3 2.8 3.1 6.2 0.3 0.9 1.8 2.8 16.6 April 9 31.3 6.4-12.2 .527 2.0-4.7 .429 3.9-4.4 .875 0.1 2.0 2.1 5.8 0.2 1.2 1.8 2.0

18.8

Splits tell a story... The story shares that there was a learning curve with this new offense and while he was learning, he lost the lead scorer.

So he had to learn the offense and become more of a scorer at the same time. His freaking april.. although not what you want in passing is about 19 points at 53% FG%, 43% from 3. Even Tony Parker looks at that and says DAMN.

He continued that in the playoffs.

BTW... Here's his split against Indy in the reg season:

vs. Indiana 4 31.5 5.3-11.8 .447 0.8-3.0 .250 3.0-3.3 .923 0.0 2.8 2.8 4.3 0.3 0.5 1.8 3.0 14.3

Do I need to remind you what happened in the playoffs?

The bottom line is that we don't know how much Teague knew throughout the season. We don't know how injured he was throughout the season. We just know that after the allstar break, there was a takeoff for Teague.

[Diesel]

But what's the point of doing that? Take away KDs ability to score....then what? Westbrook plays good d, is a great rebounder for his position, and is an average passer. What now?

The point is that you think of his ability to score (individual)... In all actuality, Westbrook is a very talented scorer who is a ballhog on offense. Like I said to begin with, he's not as good of a team player as Teague. You say he's better than Teague... I say he's poison to a team. You say look at his offense.... I say look at his team lose to teams that they shouldn't because he has to get his numbers.

Here's the truth that you will hate... Because KD was MVP, Westbrook will do anything he can to prove that he's the alpha dog NOW.

[JTB]

The point is that you think of his ability to score (individual)... In all actuality, Westbrook is a very talented scorer who is a ballhog on offense. Like I said to begin with, he's not as good of a team player as Teague. You say he's better than Teague... I say he's poison to a team. You say look at his offense.... I say look at his team lose to teams that they shouldn't because he has to get his numbers.

Here's the truth that you will hate... Because KD was MVP, Westbrook will do anything he can to prove that he's the alpha dog NOW.

@Diesel your on fire tonight! Spread that spurs like TEAM thinking! LOL….

The hawks are turning into a franchise thats all about the TEAM like the spurs not individual superstars like what OKC has. I don't see OKC winning anything until they pick which alpha they want to keep, in other words either bring in a pg or trade westbrook for about 3 average to good team players that fit around durant.

Edited June 24, 2014 by JTB

[AHF]

I would say he picked it up in the 3rd trimester of the season.

By Month GP MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS October 1 34.0 7.0-13.0 .538 1.0-4.0 .250 9.0-12.0 .750 0.0 2.0 2.0 9.0 0.0 4.0 3.0 6.0 24.0 November 17 32.9 5.6-14.0 .399 0.5-2.4 .195 5.2-6.4 .817 0.6 2.2 2.8 8.1 0.2 1.2 2.0 3.2 16.9 December 14 34.4 6.1-13.6 .450 1.1-2.9 .400 3.2-3.9 .833 0.6 2.4 3.0 8.3 0.1 1.2 2.3 3.4 16.6 January 11 29.2 4.7-12.6 .374 0.5-2.7 .167 3.7-4.4 .854 0.5 1.9 2.4 4.6 0.2 1.2 2.1 3.2 13.6 February 11 31.7 5.8-13.0 .448 0.7-1.9 .381 3.6-4.1 .889 0.4 1.5 1.9 5.8 0.3 0.8 1.9 2.5 16.0 March 16 32.1 5.9-12.9 .456 1.1-2.9 .383 3.7-4.3 .868 0.3 2.8 3.1 6.2 0.3 0.9 1.8 2.8 16.6 April 9 31.3 6.4-12.2 .527 2.0-4.7 .429 3.9-4.4 .875 0.1 2.0 2.1 5.8 0.2 1.2 1.8 2.0

18.8

Splits tell a story... The story shares that there was a learning curve with this new offense and while he was learning, he lost the lead scorer.

So he had to learn the offense and become more of a scorer at the same time. His freaking april.. although not what you want in passing is about 19 points at 53% FG%, 43% from 3. Even Tony Parker looks at that and says DAMN.

He continued that in the playoffs.

BTW... Here's his split against Indy in the reg season:

vs. Indiana 4 31.5 5.3-11.8 .447 0.8-3.0 .250 3.0-3.3 .923 0.0 2.8 2.8 4.3 0.3 0.5 1.8 3.0 14.3

Do I need to remind you what happened in the playoffs?

The bottom line is that we don't know how much Teague knew throughout the season. We don't know how injured he was throughout the season. We just know that after the allstar break, there was a takeoff for Teague.

We know Teague has always been a hot/cold player and has never put together sustained consistency or a total season that reflects above-average play. I hope next year is his first. There are a lot of excuses for Teague's season. Earlier in the thread, it was that his season was destroyed by Horford going down. Now it is that he was learning to shoot over the course of the season and picked that up in the last part of the season and into the playoffs.

Where I am is in the boat of Teague having elevated a fully average season into something promising with his playoff performance. I am into seeing what he does next year over the course of the season. If it is a mirror image of this season, I will be thoroughly unimpressed. If it is his first sustained performance at or near that playoff level of play, then I will be ready to buy into him being a top 10 PG. If he becomes a real creator on offense and a plus passer, then I will be really impressed.

Edited June 24, 2014 by AHF

[Diesel]

@Diesel your on fire tonight! Spread that spurs like TEAM thinking! LOL….

The hawks are turning into a franchise thats all about the TEAM like the spurs not individual superstars like what OKC has. I don't see OKC winning anything until they pick which alpha they want to keep, in other words either bring in a pg or trade westbrook for about 3 average to good team players that fit around durant.

The Thunder has had problems for the last couple of years and just like us with Smoove, they have been hesitant to pull the trigger on a trade because 1. Harden mistake. 2. Westbrook still brings a lot of good stuff to the table. However, if it were me, I would trade Westbrook to Boston for Rondo and Boston's lottery pick and call it a day. or Rondo and Boston's 2 other first rounders. Point is that Westbrook is disruptive just like Smoove. For all of the good he brings, he brings one overall bad.

[Diesel]

We know Teague has always been a hot/cold player and has never put together sustained consistency or a total season that reflects above-average play. I hope next year is his first. There are a lot of excuses for Teague's season. Earlier in the thread, it was that his season was destroyed by Horford going down. Now it is that he was learning to shoot over the course of the season and picked that up in the last part of the season and into the playoffs.

Where I am is in the boat of Teague having elevated a fully average season into something promising with his playoff performance. I am into season what he does next year over the course of the season. If it is a mirror image of this season, I will be thoroughly unimpressed. If it is his first sustained performance at or near that playoff level of play, then I will be ready to buy into him being a top 10 PG. If he becomes a real creator on offense and a plus passer, then I will be really impressed.

That's cool and I hate the table didn't come out the way it looked.

But you would have noticed that Teague was not shooting well when we had Horf but he was putting up the assists and points.

Teague had a down month of Jan. However, after the allstar break, things started picking up with his shooting. His late March, April and Playoffs were very strong.

Pick your factor.

However, when we talk about Teague past, look at the coaches. Look at the co-stars. Smoove is not good for anybody.

[AHF]

Teague's rising and falling play had nothing to do with Josh last season but it was a similar pattern of inconsistency. The next step for him is sustaining elevated performance.