Monroe Playing Chess with Pistons

[Guest]

I liked your post, @hawksfanatic, but shut your damn mouth about the Sega Dreamcast! That thing was, is, and always will be amazing!

Don't tell anyone, but I actually had a Dreamcast. It was the first system I ever hacked into and put illegally downloaded games on. Don't tell anyone about that either. Then they cancelled the system. I don't have time for those things anymore, so I haven't had a game system since.

(no virtual boy though, I had the foresight to realize how dopey it was)

[NBASupes]

I remember virtual boy coming out but never played it or knew anyone who had it.

 

Sega Dreamcast was a great system that got crushed by bad marketing and support.  It had some really fantastic games and the hardware was excellent.  If it had Sony's backing, it would have gone gangbusters.

 

Now for something basketball related....

 

 

If Monroe is just going to take the qualifying offer, is there a downside to offering him the rest of our cap room on a 1 year deal?  Then the Pistons are faced with paying him $10-11 M (instead of the $5.5M amount) and he will be an unrestricted FA after next season.  Whether he gets matched or not, he should think kindly of the Hawks for giving him a path to being an UFA and getting paid twice what he would with the QO. 

He then becomes a tradeable assets and we can't trade for him at all. Not sure this is a good idea.

 

Only three teams have money: Suns who aren't looking at Monroe. Philly who is tanking again and us. 

[Guest]

If Monroe is just going to take the qualifying offer, is there a downside to offering him the rest of our cap room on a 1 year deal?  Then the Pistons are faced with paying him $10-11 M (instead of the $5.5M amount) and he will be an unrestricted FA after next season.  Whether he gets matched or not, he should think kindly of the Hawks for giving him a path to being an UFA and getting paid twice what he would with the QO. 

Putting on my glasses and responding...an offer sheet needs to be for at least two seasons. But you can have the second season as a player option which effectively makes it a one-year deal.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44

But that is an amazing suggestion. The biggest downside to Monroe would be that if the Piston's do not match, then he loses Bird Rights. He'd have Early Bird Rights after the 2nd season, which for him would essentially be Bird Rights. So that is the biggest issue for him. Other than that, very sneaky suggestion.

[AHF]

Putting on my glasses and responding...an offer sheet needs to be for at least two seasons. But you can have the second season as a player option which effectively makes it a one-year deal.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44

But that is an amazing suggestion. The biggest downside to Monroe would be that if the Piston's do not match, then he loses Bird Rights. He'd have Early Bird Rights after the 2nd season, which for him would essentially be Bird Rights. So that is the biggest issue for him. Other than that, very sneaky suggestion.

 

That actually makes it better since if the Pistons ended up passing on him then he would be incented not to exercise the player option to opt out of the second year of the deal with us so he would end up eligible for Bird rights after year 2.

 

I guess the biggest downside is what supes alluded to in that the Pistons could match and trade  him to someone else (where he would then be incented to opt-in to that deal for the Early Bird Rights).  

 

If we are just going to sit on the sidelines, however, I would really think strongly about this.

[Sothron]

I remember virtual reality but not Virtual Boy.  That's as far as I can go to back you up.

 

Speaking of game systems that directly revealed how rich a household was, anyone remember Neo Geo?

 

That was the first game system that came to mind actually. My cousins have a wealthy father and his family is well off and they got the Neo Geo when it first came out and of course they brought it over to our house to show off. I remember the Madden game they had was insanely good for graphics back then. I did not feel bad when the system flopped though because they only got it to show off to the rest of the family.

[Guest]

That actually makes it better since if the Pistons ended up passing on him then he would be incented not to exercise the player option to opt out of the second year of the deal with us so he would end up eligible for Bird rights after year 2.

 

I guess the biggest downside is what supes alluded to in that the Pistons could match and trade  him to someone else (where he would then be incented to opt-in to that deal for the Early Bird Rights).  

 

If we are just going to sit on the sidelines, however, I would really think strongly about this.

No. Monroe would have the right to veto any trade over that time period.

Also, if Monroe is traded and then opts out then I'm pretty sure he loses Bird Rights. Don't quote me on that, I have some researching to double check that. Larry Coon alludes to the lose of Bird Rights (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q100) but I'm not certain on how he gets to that.

[DrReality]

That actually makes it better since if the Pistons ended up passing on him then he would be incented not to exercise the player option to opt out of the second year of the deal with us so he would end up eligible for Bird rights after year 2.

 

I guess the biggest downside is what supes alluded to in that the Pistons could match and trade  him to someone else (where he would then be incented to opt-in to that deal for the Early Bird Rights).  

If we are just going to sit on the sidelines, however, I would really think strongly about this.

 

Wasn't it Detroit that made the big offer to Koncak and we matched?  We could return the favor...........may get lucky. 

[AHF]

No. Monroe would have the right to veto any trade over that time period.

Also, if Monroe is traded and then opts out then I'm pretty sure he loses Bird Rights. Don't quote me on that, I have some researching to double check that. Larry Coon alludes to the lose of Bird Rights (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q100) but I'm not certain on how he gets to that.

 

Agreed, but if the situation is toxic in Detroit he may agree to a trade not to us anyway.

 

On the Bird Rights, that was my understanding.  If he is traded or Detroit fails to match, he will be incented to not exercise his opt out and thus is more likely to be with us for 2 years.  I will wait for the hawksfanatic official ruling, though.

 

Wasn't it Detroit that made the big offer to Koncak and we matched?  We could return the favor...........may get lucky. 

 

Yes, it was.  Ugh.

[Guest]

Agreed, but if the situation is toxic in Detroit he may agree to a trade not to us anyway.

 

On the Bird Rights, that was my understanding.  If he is traded or Detroit fails to match, he will be incented to not exercise his opt out and thus is more likely to be with us for 2 years.  I will wait for the hawksfanatic official ruling, though.

I am 100% sure that if Detroit fails to match, then his Bird Rights clock starts over again. I am less sure of a situation where Detroit trades him after matching. I'd love some help with this one @AHF, I mean it should be a bit of a cut and dry issue. Look up definitions for "Qualifying Veteran Free Agent" in the CBA...then scour a bit for if there are other caveats to the issue. At the moment, I am reading the definition and I cannot figure out why Coon says that a FA loses Bird/EB Rights if they are traded on a one-year contract that sees them earn Bird/EB Rights at the end of the deal. I know I have discussed this in the past and I had convinced myself it was true, but I cannot remember why or how I did this.

Yes, it was.  Ugh.

I bet that'd be an interesting situation to reevaluate.

[Guest]

That was the first game system that came to mind actually. My cousins have a wealthy father and his family is well off and they got the Neo Geo when it first came out and of course they brought it over to our house to show off. I remember the Madden game they had was insanely good for graphics back then. I did not feel bad when the system flopped though because they only got it to show off to the rest of the family.

 

Yeah, we had a kid in our neighborhood who was an only kid/got everything he wanted.  He had a Neo Geo and that was about the only reason we'd go over there.  Was by far the best system at the time IMHO. Had it been cheaper it would probably still be around.

 

What was this thread about again?

[Guest]

Yeah, OK Monroe would lose EB/Rights unless he opts into the second year. Which isn't so bad given he has Veto Rights:

ARTICLE VII BASKETBALL RELATED INCOME, SALARY CAP, MINIMUM TEAM SALARY, AND ESCROW ARRANGEMENT

Section 8

(b) A player with a one-year Contract (excluding any Option Year) who would be a Qualifying Veteran Free Agent or an Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agent upon completing the playing services called for under his Contract cannot be traded without the player’s consent. Should the player consent and be traded, then, for purposes of determining whether the player is a Qualifying Veteran Free Agent, Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agent or Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agent at the conclusion of the Contract or any subsequent Contract between the player and the assignee Team, the player shall be considered as having changed Teams by means of signing a Contract with the assignee Team as a Free Agent (and not by means of trade).

And that helps me. The CBA essentially changes the definition of Bird Rights in the text of the document.

[Guest]

Now I can't stop thinking about that Monroe deal, which can be improved even more.

Monroe gets an offer sheet starting at $11,179,914, goes up to $11,683,010 in the second year. The second year is a Player Option. Throw in a 15% Trade Kicker.

If the Detroit matches, Monroe can pout the rest of the year or whatever. Be paid more than his Qualifying Offer, but also have the option to be an Unrestricted Free Agent with Bird Rights (not that it would matter too much). He could also pick and choose where he would like to go, IF traded. And if he's traded? He get's a small bump in salary. Only downside for Monroe is he would be stuck with that second year.

If Detroit doesn't match, then Monroe can play the season with Atlanta. After the season, he opts out. He can then renegotiate with Atlanta using Non-Bird Rights (i.e. he signs a one year deal at 120% of his previous salary if Hawks don't have Cap Space). After that season, he then has EB rights with the Hawks and could sign to 175% (most likely his Max if Hawks don't have Cap Space).

[frosgrim]

Now I can't stop thinking about that Monroe deal, which can be improved even more.

Monroe gets an offer sheet starting at $11,179,914, goes up to $11,683,010 in the second year. The second year is a Player Option. Throw in a 15% Trade Kicker.

If the Detroit matches, Monroe can pout the rest of the year or whatever. Be paid more than his Qualifying Offer, but also have the option to be an Unrestricted Free Agent with Bird Rights (not that it would matter too much). He could also pick and choose where he would like to go, IF traded. And if he's traded? He get's a small bump in salary. Only downside for Monroe is he would be stuck with that second year.

If Detroit doesn't match, then Monroe can play the season with Atlanta. After the season, he opts out. He can then renegotiate with Atlanta using Non-Bird Rights (i.e. he signs a one year deal at 120% of his previous salary if Hawks don't have Cap Space). After that season, he then has EB rights with the Hawks and could sign to 175% (most likely his Max if Hawks don't have Cap Space).

Well, this sounds like the plan to me. I hope Ferry and Co have it figured out as well. Bringing in Monroe then gives us the ability to move Horford or Milsap for that needed wing. E.g., we could make that trade with GS for Thompson. 

 

Teague

Thompson

DMC

Milsap

Monroe

 

Not a bad starting 5 lineup with a deep bench

[AHF]

Now you just need to tee that up for Ferry!

[Vol4ever]

Now I can't stop thinking about that Monroe deal, which can be improved even more.

Monroe gets an offer sheet starting at $11,179,914, goes up to $11,683,010 in the second year. The second year is a Player Option. Throw in a 15% Trade Kicker.

If the Detroit matches, Monroe can pout the rest of the year or whatever. Be paid more than his Qualifying Offer, but also have the option to be an Unrestricted Free Agent with Bird Rights (not that it would matter too much). He could also pick and choose where he would like to go, IF traded. And if he's traded? He get's a small bump in salary. Only downside for Monroe is he would be stuck with that second year.

If Detroit doesn't match, then Monroe can play the season with Atlanta. After the season, he opts out. He can then renegotiate with Atlanta using Non-Bird Rights (i.e. he signs a one year deal at 120% of his previous salary if Hawks don't have Cap Space). After that season, he then has EB rights with the Hawks and could sign to 175% (most likely his Max if Hawks don't have Cap Space).

 

 

Can you go over to Danny Ferry's office and help him get a deal done?   

[Vol4ever]

Well, this sounds like the plan to me. I hope Ferry and Co have it figured out as well. Bringing in Monroe then gives us the ability to move Horford or Milsap for that needed wing. E.g., we could make that trade with GS for Thompson. 

 

Teague

Thompson

DMC

Milsap

Monroe

 

Not a bad starting 5 lineup with a deep bench

 

 

So GS wont trade Thompson for Kevin Love but they will send him to us for Sap or Horf?    

[frosgrim]

So GS wont trade Thompson for Kevin Love but they will send him to us for Sap or Horf?    

There was a rumor a few weeks back about Thompson for Horford. I didn't make it up. The point is, if you sign Monroe outright we can move one of Milsap or Horford for a top notch wing. 

[Vol4ever]

There was a rumor a few weeks back about Thompson for Horford. I didn't make it up. The point is, if you sign Monroe outright we can move one of Milsap or Horford for a top notch wing. 

 

 

Gotcha

[AHF]

Now you just need to tee that up for Ferry!

[Guest]

Now I can't stop thinking about that Monroe deal, which can be improved even more.

Monroe gets an offer sheet starting at $11,179,914, goes up to $11,683,010 in the second year. The second year is a Player Option. Throw in a 15% Trade Kicker.

If the Detroit matches, Monroe can pout the rest of the year or whatever. Be paid more than his Qualifying Offer, but also have the option to be an Unrestricted Free Agent with Bird Rights (not that it would matter too much). He could also pick and choose where he would like to go, IF traded. And if he's traded? He get's a small bump in salary. Only downside for Monroe is he would be stuck with that second year.

If Detroit doesn't match, then Monroe can play the season with Atlanta. After the season, he opts out. He can then renegotiate with Atlanta using Non-Bird Rights (i.e. he signs a one year deal at 120% of his previous salary if Hawks don't have Cap Space). After that season, he then has EB rights with the Hawks and could sign to 175% (most likely his Max if Hawks don't have Cap Space).

Brain faaaaaart.

The second year cannot be a Player Option. I knew that sounded too good since Chandler Parsons had a 3-year with the 3rd year as a PO.

Carry on.