Merged: Greg Monroe Topics

[bird_dirt]

I just don't see any reason to trade for Monroe. At least not Horford or Millsap. I think without unloading Smoove, Det isnt very likely to match a serious offer for him, SVG threats are a smokescreen, imo.

And why would they trade a starting big for another starting big? They'd have the same problem as last year. Just because Horford and Sap are our two best players doesn't mean we always have to throw their names in every trade scenario. Maybe offer them JJ, Patterson's rights, 2nd rounders, or whatever scrap bits to toss their way so it doesn't seem they're letting him go for nothing, but no need to trade anything of value. If they want to shoot themselves in the foot by matching an offer and go through last season all over again, then let them. We finished with a better record than them last year, and we'll do it again.

Edited July 15, 2014 by bird_dirt

[Twinblade]

I doubt either player will be signed anyways. Our fa is pretty much over at this point.

[Admin]

I just don't see any reason to trade for Monroe. At least not Horford or Millsap. I think without unloading Smoove, Det isnt very likely to match a serious offer for him, SVG threats are a smokescreen, imo.

And why would they trade a starting big for another starting big? They'd have the same problem as last year. Just because Horford and Sap are our two best players doesn't mean we always have to throw their names in every trade scenario. Maybe offer them JJ, Patterson's rights, 2nd rounders, or whatever scrap bits to toss their way so it doesn't seem they're letting him go for nothing, but no need to trade anything of value. If they want to shoot themselves in the foot by matching an offer and go through last season all over again, then let them. We finished with a better record than them last year, and we'll do it again.

 

We can't offer more than about 9 million now and that won't be enough to stop DET from matching. 

[Guest]

Boozer is one of those players that I don't like on other teams but if the Hawks picked him up I would probably learn to like him... lol

Paul Pierce and Jason Kidd also fall into that classification.

I lost you at Pierce..

[Guest]

Actually Spudz I believe he's more of a Shar-Pei than a snake.

Lol...Shar-Pei (Booze) and Cookie Monster (Al Jefferson) would make up a nice 1-2 punch.

[bird_dirt]

We can't offer more than about 9 million now and that won't be enough to stop DET from matching.

Did I read @hawksfanatic s post

http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/396215-intense-cap-analysis-after-agreeing-to-terms-wthabo-and-bazemore/#entry711151

Incorrectly in believing that depending on how salary structures are accounted for, we could actually have $10-11 million something available? If so, even though it isn't his max, I bet there's a good chance Monroe would sign for $11 million per, maybe on an escalating scale, just to get out of Det, and they won't match that offer with Smoove still there. That's only $1million less than Horford makes, and he's certainly worth a lot more than $1mill more a year than Monroe. Like I said, toss a few bones their way to grease the skids if you have to of course, but nothing major.

Edited July 15, 2014 by bird_dirt

[Diesel]

I just don't see any reason to trade for Monroe. At least not Horford or Millsap. I think without unloading Smoove, Det isnt very likely to match a serious offer for him, SVG threats are a smokescreen, imo.

And why would they trade a starting big for another starting big? They'd have the same problem as last year. Just because Horford and Sap are our two best players doesn't mean we always have to throw their names in every trade scenario. Maybe offer them JJ, Patterson's rights, 2nd rounders, or whatever scrap bits to toss their way so it doesn't seem they're letting him go for nothing, but no need to trade anything of value. If they want to shoot themselves in the foot by matching an offer and go through last season all over again, then let them. We finished with a better record than them last year, and we'll do it again.

While I do believe that SVG put up a Smokescreen, I think he would match and simply trade Monroe away midseason.  The name of the game is to not lose value for nothing.  Moreover, I don't think we have the capspace to make them blink.

 

As far as why trade big for big.... The answer is better fit and Big happiness.

 

Better fit:  Drummond and Monroe = duplication.   Monroe played out of position to satisfy that duplication but in all actuallity, Monroe is more effective in the post.  Monroe's agent will not let him purposely devalue himself by playing out of position.  We have a Jack of all trades PF that is a much better fit.  Actually, SVG would love Millsap because he can shoot.  However, i don't think SVG wants to trade away his best trading piece for a guy on his last year.  He'd rather take Horf who also plays in the high post effectively.

 

Big Happiness: As I said previously, everything rest on how hard David Falk and Monroe pushes SVG.  I don't think we can bust Monroe out, but if Monroe is not happy, SVG will deal him out.

[Guest]

Did I read @hawksfanatic s post

http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/396215-intense-cap-analysis-after-agreeing-to-terms-wthabo-and-bazemore/#entry711151

Incorrectly in believing that depending on how salary structures are accounted for, we could actually have $10-11 million something available? If so, even though it isn't his max, I bet there's a good chance Monroe would sign for $11 million per, maybe on an escalating scale, just to get out of Det, and they won't match that offer with Smoove still there. That's only $1million less than Horford makes, and he's certainly worth a lot more than $1mill more a year than Monroe. Like I said, toss a few bones their way to grease the skids if you have to of course, but nothing major.

I'm more happy to say that @Dolfan23 is wrong than @bird_dirt is right, but that is how it goes.

Bazemore isn't an official sign yet. He can be had for the Room MLE or BAE or Cap Space or S&T. So we can realistically have right around $11 million in cap space.

http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/396215-intense-cap-analysis-after-agreeing-to-terms-wthabo-and-bazemore/

[Admin]

I'm more happy to say that @Dolfan23 is wrong than @bird_dirt is right, but that is how it goes.

Bazemore isn't an official sign yet. He can be had for the Room MLE or BAE or Cap Space or S&T. So we can realistically have right around $11 million in cap space.

http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/396215-intense-cap-analysis-after-agreeing-to-terms-wthabo-and-bazemore/

 

But @hawksfanatic that's not subtracting the contract we guaranteed to Pero, right? So we are actually at 9 million ish. Right? 

[Guest]

But @hawksfanatic that's not subtracting the contract we guaranteed to Pero, right? So we are actually at 9 million ish. Right?

Nope. I've always included Pero in the realistic scenario and that is what is reported.

Now if we went crazy and thought about what the MAX cap space the Hawks could have, then they could waive Pero then renounce all the Free Agents and get to $14,110,979 in space. But that is stupid to talk about in my opinion so I've suppressed that from what I've talked about.

[Admin]

Nope. I've always included Pero in the realistic scenario and that is what is reported.

Now if we went crazy and thought about what the MAX cap space the Hawks could have, then they could waive Pero then renounce all the Free Agents and get to $14,110,979 in space. But that is stupid to talk about in my opinion so I've suppressed that from what I've talked about.

 

Hmm I didn't think you had the 1.3 or whatever he just got guaranteed in there. Good to know then. 

[bird_dirt]

I'm more happy to say that @Dolfan23 is wrong than @bird_dirt is right, but that is how it goes.

 

 

Hey, either way, I'll take it!

[bird_dirt]

While I do believe that SVG put up a Smokescreen, I think he would match and simply trade Monroe away midseason.  The name of the game is to not lose value for nothing.  Moreover, I don't think we have the capspace to make them blink.

 

As far as why trade big for big.... The answer is better fit and Big happiness.

 

Better fit:  Drummond and Monroe = duplication.   Monroe played out of position to satisfy that duplication but in all actuallity, Monroe is more effective in the post.  Monroe's agent will not let him purposely devalue himself by playing out of position.  We have a Jack of all trades PF that is a much better fit.  Actually, SVG would love Millsap because he can shoot.  However, i don't think SVG wants to trade away his best trading piece for a guy on his last year.  He'd rather take Horf who also plays in the high post effectively.

 

Big Happiness: As I said previously, everything rest on how hard David Falk and Monroe pushes SVG.  I don't think we can bust Monroe out, but if Monroe is not happy, SVG will deal him out.

 

$11 mill will make them at least think twice considering they would still be right where they were last season all over again, and for however long until they trade away Smoove or Monroe.  And if they matched our offer, then they wouldn't be able to trade away Monroe without his consent, for a full year (like Teague last offseason), correct? 

I'm no GM, nor do I play one on TV, but I don't think we need to be giving away horf or sap for monroe.

[Admin]

$11 mill will make them at least think twice considering they would still be right where they were last season all over again, and for however long until they trade away Smoove or Monroe.  And if they matched our offer, then they wouldn't be able to trade away Monroe without his consent, for a full year (like Teague last offseason), correct? 

I'm no GM, nor do I play one on TV, but I don't think we need to be giving away horf or sap for monroe.

 

If we really like Monroe and are willing to risk him taking up the rest of our $$ AND we aren't needing it for anyone else, it can't hurt to throw out as much as we have left to see. 

[Vol4ever]

Uhh hello I guess you forgot Marvin for Devin Harris??

Lol yeah that was a huge deal, how could I have forgot that????  

[Packfill]

If we really like Monroe and are willing to risk him taking up the rest of our $$ AND we aren't needing it for anyone else, it can't hurt to throw out as much as we have left to see. 

It could hurt.  I can't help but believe Ferry is still in the asset accumulation phase of the rebuilding and handcuffing the team to another big salary limits flexibility going forward.  As such, it is hard to get too jazzed about this team and the players as my sense is, and I could be wrong, is that Ferry is still looking for his long-term building blocks and everyone is moveable until he finds the right pieces to build around.

[Admin]

A 24 year old true C making 11 million is a terrific asset.

[Packfill]

A 24 year old true C making 11 million is a terrific asset.

A good asset, but you absolutely need a big who can play defense and protect the rim to go along with him unless you have a HOF talent elsewhere covering-up the warts.  Detroit made a big mistake signing Smoove because he does not fit well with Drummond and Monroe - they need someone to space the floor.  Monroe can work with Drummond because Monroe is comfortable playing in the high post. 

[Admin]

A good asset, but you absolutely need a big who can play defense and protect the rim to go along with him unless you have a HOF talent elsewhere covering-up the warts.  Detroit made a big mistake signing Smoove because he does not fit well with Drummond and Monroe - they need someone to space the floor.  Monroe can work with Drummond because Monroe is comfortable playing in the high post. 

 

I'm not saying he'd be a guy we'd build around. I'm just saying if we could steal him for 11 million, he's a damn good tradeable asset. 

 

I agree re: Detroit and about needing a defensive guy in the paint to protect him. 

[NBASupes]

A 24 year old true C making 11 million is a terrific asset.

I wouldn't say he's a true center as he doesn't quite have that skill-set but he is a center. That's his best position on defense. On offense, he can play either position. On defense, he's a terrible defensive 4 while being an average defensive 5. He doesn't protect the rim like most would like a 5 to do. But he does rebound at a very good rate.