Guest Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Maybe coach bud is saying "hey this kid Monroe has great low post scoring potential and just need to be PUT in the right situation on the defense end to make a difference!....ferry lets get this guy I KNOW how to use him!" I don't think coach Bud is saying this, if he was Ferry would be making a move IMHO. I think Bud and Ferry come from the same lines of scouting talent and how it would fit in a certain system since they both came from the Pop school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators macdaddy Posted August 8, 2014 Moderators Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Just saying that if he was a difference maker, things should have gotten better not worse or stayed the same! You could say the same about Love, Melo, Bosh, Deng. Sometimes the team is just broken i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted August 8, 2014 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!! So you're going to blame Monroe for all the pistons failures?...not a good thing to do. Sap came from a losing jazz team. Played great here. Josh smith came from a team making the playoffs (us) and played terrible in Detroit. Milsap's rookie season was 2006-07. Utah went from a .500 41-41 team the previous year to 51-31 and then 54-28 the following year. So I would say that he was a difference maker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted August 8, 2014 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 You could say the same about Love, Melo, Bosh, Deng. Sometimes the team is just broken i think. Melo took a 17-65 team to 43-39 his rookie season Deng took a 23-59 team to 47-35 his rookie season Bosh from 24-58 to 33-49 And I said that I am concerned about love but he will be a role player in Cleveland. Monroe's team went from 27-55 to 30-52 his rookie season and then back to 25-41 in his 2nd season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Milsap's rookie season was 2006-07. Utah went from a .500 41-41 team the previous year to 51-31 and then 54-28 the following year. So I would say that he was a difference maker. LOL. I think Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer would disagree with that statement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted August 8, 2014 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) LOL. I think Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer would disagree with that statement. Deron Williams was drafted the previous year when they went 41-41 during his rookie season Boozer was on the 26-56 win team! The year before the 41-41 team Edited August 8, 2014 by Peoriabird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I understand what you're saying and I'm not against us taking a step forward and improve our team by trading pieces to get a center. My only concern is that I think Monroe isn't the guy. If you were talking about trading Sap and pieces for a guy like Serge Ibaka or Marc Gasol I would do it in a heartbeat, but Monroe isn't the guy. I think we should roll with what we have, not make any panic moves and see what happens around the February trade deadline. You never know, a great opportunity might present itself then, but for now, stand pat. I also get what you're saying and I respect your feelings. I don't feel it's a panic move, I honestly believe it's a smart move and looking towards the future. I get that we want to keep sap and Korver but are we going to be contending for a championship in 3 years?....I only ask cause sap will be 33 and Korver 36. I can see our fan base now...."wish we would have made that trade for Monroe 3 years ago...sap and Korver gettin old" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I also get what you're saying and I respect your feelings. I don't feel it's a panic move, I honestly believe it's a smart move and looking towards the future. I get that we want to keep sap and Korver but are we going to be contending for a championship in 3 years?....I only ask cause sap will be 33 and Korver 36. I can see our fan base now...."wish we would have made that trade for Monroe 3 years ago...sap and Korver gettin old" I totally understand the age difference. But I just don't understand why you want to move Sap for Monroe. If you look at it stat wise.. Points, assists, steals, BLOCKS, ft%, 3pt% are all in the favor of Sap. Only rebounds and fg% are in Monroe's favor. I mean blocks? If you were Horford and saw the blocks stat alone in the sap vs Monroe comparison you would laugh. Horford would probably think wait, they wanna get me a "center" that blocks less shots that my own pf (sap) did last year. They can't possibly be serious. Either get Horford a real center or lets just hold on to our cards for now until the trade deadline. Because there is no way we trade Sap who is the better player by far, for Monroe who is just younger and is listed as a pf/center. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Sothron Posted August 8, 2014 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Monroe is not a shot blocker, he is a better defender at center than he is at PF. He was completely exposed at PF last season on defense. But if he was here and we could move Al to PF that is no longer a problem. The bonuses of Monroe's offensive game at center outweigh his lack of shot blocking as a center. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Sothron Posted August 8, 2014 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Just as a bit of fact checking, they weren't close to making the playoffs in the West since they missed by 9 or 10 games (they won 40, the 8th seed won 49). In the East, they would have been the 8th seed (3 games behind the 7th seed Bobcats). Basically, they were better than us.If Minn were in the East their W/L record would have been better by playing a much easier schedule than in the West. And this is even accounting for all their injuries and the bench literally costing them several games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Monroe is not a shot blocker, he is a better defender at center than he is at PF. He was completely exposed at PF last season on defense. But if he was here and we could move Al to PF that is no longer a problem. The bonuses of Monroe's offensive game at center outweigh his lack of shot blocking as a center. yeah they tend to forget that important part….lol everyone wants to complain about having a true center that blocks but having one that can score in the post is just as important. We all know Sap is better right now but the question is, is sap better over the next 5 years? probably not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted August 8, 2014 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Monroe is not a shot blocker, he is a better defender at center than he is at PF. He was completely exposed at PF last season on defense. But if he was here and we could move Al to PF that is no longer a problem. The bonuses of Monroe's offensive game at center outweigh his lack of shot blocking as a center. We will not win the East let alone a championship with Monroe as our center! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Monroe is not a shot blocker, he is a better defender at center than he is at PF. He was completely exposed at PF last season on defense. But if he was here and we could move Al to PF that is no longer a problem. The bonuses of Monroe's offensive game at center outweigh his lack of shot blocking as a center. Do they also outweigh his overall defense, or lack there of? You can put Monroe at pg, sg, sf, pf, or center, he's still gonna get exposed. The dude can't play D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Peoriabird Posted August 8, 2014 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) We all know Sap is better right now but the question is, is sap better over the next 5 years? probably not Why are you making it seem like it is either Sap or Monroe? There are other options in a year or 2. I just don't want to get tied to this kind of player Edited August 9, 2014 by Peoriabird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Melo took a 17-65 team to 43-39 his rookie season Deng took a 23-59 team to 47-35 his rookie season Bosh from 24-58 to 33-49 And I said that I am concerned about love but he will be a role player in Cleveland. Monroe's team went from 27-55 to 30-52 his rookie season and then back to 25-41 in his 2nd season So someone has to be a difference maker on another team before they can come here? No wonder we never get the player we want! We want them to establish themselves on someone else's team first before we commit and try to get them! SMH makes no sense! We say no over getting that player with potential because they aren't sure stars right now. Hmmmm so we can't complain staying a middle of the pack team if the majority of the hawk fan base thinks this way. We need to take gambles if we want to become a better team hawk fans or possibly get a star player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted August 8, 2014 Moderators Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) Monroe's last two seasons at center, he generated 7 win shares on offense and 6 on defense. His defensive rating went from a 103.5 at center to a 108 at PF (higher is worse). For context, the Hawks had exactly one defender last year who bettered his DWS (average of those last two seasons at center was 3 DWS) and that 103.5 DRTG is very similar to Al's defensive rating the last two seasons (102 and 104). Monroe is a much better defender at center. Edited August 8, 2014 by AHF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 We will not win the East let alone a championship with Monroe as our center! and it very rare that we aren't going to be in position to win a championship in the next 3 years when saps 33….I mean really what the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Why are you making it seem like it is either Sap or Monroe? There are other options in a year or 2. I just don't want to get tied this kind of player I get that man but you act as if we get free agents here….WE RARELY GET PLAYERS TO COME HERE!….you know that! its been going on for years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTB Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Monroe's last two seasons at center, he generated 7 win shares on offense and 6 on defense. His defensive rating went from a 103.5 at center to a 108 at PF (higher is worse). For context, the Hawks had exactly one defender last year who bettered his DWS (average of those last two seasons at center was 3 DWS) and that 103.5 DRTG is very similar to Al's defensive rating the last two seasons (102 and 104). Monroe is a much better defender at center. If he's played in his right position (center) and used right (which coach bud Im sure will know how to use him) the sky is the limit for that young man! He already has a skill set that is rare in the nba game today with his post scoring and outstanding passing ability for a center. If we don't get him fine but we don't have a ton of options looking at how many free agents don't respect us as it is right now….its hard to see that changing over the next few years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member BrazilianHawk Posted August 8, 2014 Premium Member Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Whoa, whoa, whoa!!!! So you're going to blame Monroe for all the pistons failures?...not a good thing to do. Sap came from a losing jazz team. Played great here. Josh smith came from a team making the playoffs (us) and played terrible in Detroit. From what you're saying...you wouldn't take Demarcus Cousins, Kevin Love, Carmelo Anthony, etc. all because they played on losing teams and I think that's insane! Players will perform different here if they fit coach bud style.We happen to have a different scheme and coach that Monroe happens to fit perfectly in. If you like horford at center then GREAT! I'm somewhat in between myself. I know how hard it is to find a center who can actually score in the post in today's nba because that kind of thing is extinct now or very rare. Last year we had several fans making the same argument as you but with Al Jefferson. Our fans said he was the biggest defensive liability for centers even though he was a great post scorer. Well then we see him with the bobcats and a coach actually uses him the right way which is a huge factor and suddenly he's effective on the defense end. Al Jefferson is a perfect example of why we CANT judge a players so called bad abilities just because they didn't perform well from another team! Maybe coach bud is saying "hey this kid Monroe has great low post scoring potential and just need to be PUT in the right situation on the defense end to make a difference!....ferry lets get this guy I KNOW how to use him!" Excuse, sir... But how the *bleep* would you know that? I KNOW FOR SURE Millsap fits our system. Monroe? Not sure, he hasn't played a single game under Bud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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