Offseason grades by David Aldridge

[macdaddy]

We are tired of the Al Jefferson bit because he did target Millsap (a guy who may be overlooked) and got him and he was an Allstar last season. But you discount that because you wanted Al Jeff. DF and Bud WANTED Millsap to pair with Horford - plain and simple. You make it seem like he got Solomon Jones in lieu of Al Jeff instead of Millsap the Allstar.

 

Wow.  Thank you JayBird.   Geez.   If ever there was a case of targeting guys that others overlook the Hawks have that down: Millsap, Korver, Bazemore, Antić, DMC.     There are reasons we didn't go after Jeffereson and Stephenson and we don't know what DFs reasons are but mine would be that a Horford/Jefferson frontcourt isn't quick enough, that Jefferson isn't a good defender, that Stephenson is too risky for the price and not the type of guy they want on the team.   

[Vol4ever]

I dont see how Monroe is any different than Jefferson.   So if we are after Monroe and trading Sap(who knows) why didnt we just sign Jefferson instead of going through all of this.

 

I dont think Ferry has a clue.   

Wow.  Thank you JayBird.   Geez.   If ever there was a case of targeting guys that others overlook the Hawks have that down: Millsap, Korver, Bazemore, Antić, DMC.     There are reasons we didn't go after Jeffereson and Stephenson and we don't know what DFs reasons are but mine would be that a Horford/Jefferson frontcourt isn't quick enough, that Jefferson isn't a good defender, that Stephenson is too risky for the price and not the type of guy they want on the team.   

Excuses

[macdaddy]

I dont see how Monroe is any different than Jefferson.   So if we are after Monroe and trading Sap(who knows) why didnt we just sign Jefferson instead of going through all of this.

 

I dont think Ferry has a clue.   

Excuses

  LoL.  What in there can be construed as an excuse?  Just because you don't like that we didn't sign these guys doesn't mean we should have.   

 

You don't see the difference between Monroe and Jefferson?   Would you rather have your money tied up for 4 years in a 25 year old or a 30 year old big if as you say there isn't any difference between the two.   

[Guest]

I dont see how Monroe is any different than Jefferson. So if we are after Monroe and trading Sap(who knows) why didnt we just sign Jefferson instead of going through all of this.

I dont think Ferry has a clue.

Excuses

First we don't know what DF has offered in a SnT for Monroe - it's all speculation based on that stupid article about Sap AND Korver because of the salaries matching up which as @hawksfanatic pointed out doesn't work because of the BYC of Monroe's contract.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

We are tired of the Al Jefferson bit because he did target Millsap (a guy who may be overlooked) and got him and he was an Allstar last season. But you discount that because you wanted Al Jeff. DF and Bud WANTED Millsap to pair with Horford - plain and simple. You make it seem like he got Solomon Jones in lieu of Al Jeff instead of Millsap the Allstar.

 

My reasoning for bringing in Jefferson had everything to do with team needs and fit, and not a slap in the face against Paul Millsap.   But here's a news flash Miss JayBird:

 

We possibly could've had BOTH Millsap and Jefferson.  Ever thought about that?  

 

We had 30+ million in cap space.   Why not swing for the fence and get 2 high level ( non-superstar ) players?

 

Yes, that would mean that guys like Brand and maybe even ( gasp ) Pero Antić might not be here.   Yes, that may mean that our rookies last year ( Nogueira and Schröder ) might have to be kept here and may have to possibly be in the rotation.  And yes ( double gasp ) our precious "flexibiity" would be gone for a year or two.  But how does this lineup look?

 

Starters:

 

PG - Teague

G - Korver

F - Millsap

PF - Horford

C - Jefferson

 

 

Bench:

 

G - Lou ( 6th man )

G - Mack

F - Carroll

F- Scott

 

 

Benchwarmers:

 

G - Schröder

F - Martin

G - Jenkins

C - Bebe

C - cheap vet min contract

 

With Millsap's ability to play PF, but also SF, we could go with a big lineup to start games, to really put the heat on teams.   As good as I think that a Jefferson - Horford frontline could've been, what would a Jefferson - Horford - Millsap frontline look like?

 

With that frontline, you could literally take your pick as to whom you would pull out of the game early, and run them with the 2nd team and have them as the feature scorer ( preferably either Horford or Jefferson ).  And at the end of games, if you do need perimeter defense, pull one of the 3 and insert DeMarre into the game.

 

All I know is that with that frontline, it would enable us to play just about any way we wanted.   It would put a ton of pressure on Millsap to guard quicker SFs, but he could turn around and offensively punish those SF's on the other end.

 

There were just too many directions the GM could've gone in, than the direction he did decide to go in.   Heck, some even wanted the team completely torn down and rebuilt.   Even that option may have been better for the team than how our GM is currently constructing this team.

 

I just don't want to hear any more excuses for the GM, as far as his inability to attract high level talent.   If he really wanted to, he could do it.  He'll just have to go after players he may not possibly think is the perfect fit.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's more positive than I anticipated and that's die to the fact he recognizes what we are doing. The guys we picked up aren't all that big a deal but it's Budz system, player development and culture. We've come a long way in a year.

 

A long way from what?

[Vol4ever]

I believe the GM believes in this euro stuff because he can get players at a better price from overseas.  The problem with using that and referencing the Spurs is that they already had Duncan and Robinson before he retired.   We really dont have anybody near that talent level.

 

Ferry thinks he can win big with a system and lesser talent.  We will witness that theory fail over the next 3-5 years.  

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I believe the GM believes in this euro stuff because he can get players at a better price from overseas.  The problem with using that and referencing the Spurs is that they already had Duncan and Robinson before he retired.   We really dont have anybody near that talent level.

 

Ferry thinks he can win big with a system and lesser talent.  We will witness that theory fail over the next 3-5 years.  

 

I agree 100%.

 

It's like he's trying to prove wrong the theory of having superstars or high level stars to win games, by running and constructing an international style system.  Trying to turn us into CSKA Atlanta or the Maccabi Tel Aviv Hawks

Edited August 6, 2014 by TheNorthCydeRises

[Guest]

I agree 100%.

 

It's like he's trying to prove wrong the theory of having superstars or high level stars to win games, by running and constructing an international style system.  Trying to turn us into CSKA Atlanta or the Maccabi Tel Aviv Hawks

 

Ferry was so traumatized by his experience with James in Cleveland that he's bound and determined to never have to go through it again.  I'm only half-serious but I do think he went from cowtowing to a superstar to now cowtowing to a 'system'.

 

I'd love to see it work.  I think it'd be cool to be the CSKA Hawks and be winning at a high level.

 

The problem as I see it is by the time he joined the Spurs they already had Robinson and Duncan, superstars who allowed the "culture" to be established.  At that point all they had to do was add key role-players and cherry-pick international fits.

 

He seems to have an incomplete perspective.  I also happen to think he's not that great a GM but that's a whole different discussion.

[AHF]

Let's not go overboard with the foreign reliance stuff.  Last time I check the Hawks were starting:

 

Teague - USA

Korver - USA

DMC - USA

Millsap - USA

Horford - USA

 

Bench:

Mack - USA

Jenkins - USA (2012 1st rounder)

Bazemore - USA

Scott - USA

Payne - USA (2014 1st rounder)

 

We don't look overly heavy on Euro talent to me.

[Vol4ever]

I agree 100%.

 

It's like he's trying to prove wrong the theory of having superstars or high level stars to win games, by running and constructing an international style system.  Trying to turn us into CSKA Atlanta or the Maccabi Tel Aviv Hawks

Further evidenced by hiring the foreign coach as an assistant imo

[Guest]

Let's not go overboard with the foreign reliance stuff.  Last time I check the Hawks were starting:

 

Teague - USA

Korver - USA

DMC - USA

Millsap - USA

Horford - Technically, well actually, not US-born

 

Bench:

Mack - USA

Jenkins - USA (2012 1st rounder)

Bazemore - USA

Scott - USA

Payne - USA (2014 1st rounder)

Sefolosha - Switzerland

Antić - Macedonia

Schröder - Germany

Tavares - Cape Verde

 

We don't look overly heavy on Euro talent to me.

 

http://www.nba.com/hawks/roster

 

To give a full picture I added to your list.  I don't think it's a stretch to say the bolded will be part of the rotation?

 

Not a drastic reliance on non-US guys.  Would you not agree that management and staff are more focused on mining foreign players for talent than most organizations though?  The new assistant hire is further evidence of that.

 

I guess I don't really have a problem with it, but I do recognize that it is a focus of theirs.

[Guest]

http://www.nba.com/hawks/roster

To give a full picture I added to your list. I don't think it's a stretch to say the bolded will be part of the rotation?

Not a drastic reliance on non-US guys. Would you not agree that management and staff are more focused on mining foreign players for talent than most organizations though? The new assistant hire is further evidence of that.

I guess I don't really have a problem with it, but I do recognize that it is a focus of theirs.

Are you really counting Al - that's cheating. Al went to high school and College in US.

So we have 3 guys who will be in the rotation.

Have you looked around the league? What's the average for each team? I'm sure most teams have at least 2.

[Guest]

Are you really counting Al - that's cheating. Al went to high school and College in US.

So we have 3 guys who will be in the rotation.

Have you looked around the league? What's the average for each team? I'm sure most teams have at least 2.

Meh, it's not cheating if it helps me make my point.    Marc Gasol went to HS here too didn't he?  Let's sign the petition to get them both on Team USA.

 

I get your overall point though, but I still contend that mgt. and staff are more internationally-focused than most organizations.  Agree or disagree?

Edited August 6, 2014 by kg01

[AHF]

Meh, it's not cheating if it helps me make my point.    Marc Gasol went to HS here too didn't he?  Let's sign the petition to get them both on Team USA.

 

I get your overall point though, but I still contend that mgt. and staff are more internationally-focused than most organizations.  Agree or disagree?

 

I hope they are internationally focused -- but not at the expense of being on top of US talent.  That to me seems to be the only possible issue.  We are far from the Tel Aviv Hawks.

[Guest]

Last Season Int'l players by team and country (I haven't looked to see where we rank):

 

http://www.nba.com/global/nba_tips_off_201314_season_with_record_international_presence_2013_10_29.html

[Sothron]

A long way from what?

Well, you see, before we made the playoffs ever year and could never make it past the second round. BUT NOW we uh didn't get past the first round, had a losing season and were able to attract several top free agents based solely on Bud's system and Ferry's vision.

[macdaddy]

 

I just don't want to hear any more excuses for the GM, as far as his inability to attract high level talent.   If he really wanted to, he could do it.  He'll just have to go after players he may not possibly think is the perfect fit.

 

 

I guarantee that Ferry is already doing what he really wants to.   It's just different than what you want him to do.   As far as signing both Millsap and Jefferson.  Yeah that'd be awesome.   They really proved to be the ticket to a championship when they were together in Utah.   

[Guest]

My reasoning for bringing in Jefferson had everything to do with team needs and fit, and not a slap in the face against Paul Millsap. But here's a news flash Miss JayBird:

We possibly could've had BOTH Millsap and Jefferson. Ever thought about that?

We had 30+ million in cap space. Why not swing for the fence and get 2 high level ( non-superstar ) players?

Yes, that would mean that guys like Brand and maybe even ( gasp ) Pero Antić might not be here. Yes, that may mean that our rookies last year ( Nogueira and Schröder ) might have to be kept here and may have to possibly be in the rotation. And yes ( double gasp ) our precious "flexibiity" would be gone for a year or two. But how does this lineup look?

Starters:

PG - Teague

G - Korver

F - Millsap

PF - Horford

C - Jefferson

Bench:

G - Lou ( 6th man )

G - Mack

F - Carroll

F- Scott

Benchwarmers:

G - Schröder

F - Martin

G - Jenkins

C - Bebe

C - cheap vet min contract

With Millsap's ability to play PF, but also SF, we could go with a big lineup to start games, to really put the heat on teams. As good as I think that a Jefferson - Horford frontline could've been, what would a Jefferson - Horford - Millsap frontline look like?

With that frontline, you could literally take your pick as to whom you would pull out of the game early, and run them with the 2nd team and have them as the feature scorer ( preferably either Horford or Jefferson ). And at the end of games, if you do need perimeter defense, pull one of the 3 and insert DeMarre into the game.

All I know is that with that frontline, it would enable us to play just about any way we wanted. It would put a ton of pressure on Millsap to guard quicker SFs, but he could turn around and offensively punish those SF's on the other end.

There were just too many directions the GM could've gone in, than the direction he did decide to go in. Heck, some even wanted the team completely torn down and rebuilt. Even that option may have been better for the team than how our GM is currently constructing this team.

I just don't want to hear any more excuses for the GM, as far as his inability to attract high level talent. If he really wanted to, he could do it. He'll just have to go after players he may not possibly think is the perfect fit.

First we didn't have $30 million dollars in cap space with all the cap holds for Teague, Korver -and the rest if the roster seeing we only had 3 guaranteed contracts in Al, Lou and JJ. @hawksfanatic can probably give a detailed breakdown of our actual capspace back then.

Second Millsap is a PF he is not a full time small forward.

Thirdly, we probably would not have signed Korver AND DMC - that roster is a $60+ million roster.

[ViperXX79]

Well, you see, before we made the playoffs ever year and could never make it past the second round. BUT NOW we uh didn't get past the first round, had a losing season and were able to attract several top free agents based solely on Bud's system and Ferry's vision.