K Love in ATL tonight

[AHF]

Man, that looks like when we bottomed out and had top lottery picks and whiffed, smh.

 

It may even be worse.  At least we nailed Horford to make the leap.  They passed on All-Stars, NBA Finals MVPs and ROYs with every pick except 2012's pick (which I didn't trace back far enough suffice to say they passed on stud shotblocker John Henson so they could trade for Marko Jaric lol).

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I can't like this post enough. I feel like there's a handful of posters on this site that actually appreciate that you need STAR PLAYERS to win a title and doing anything less to get them is literally the worst position you can be in the NBA. Treadmills are evil. And yet most of the posters on this board are seemingly fine with never reaching for the stars. It just makes me sad. Honestly sad.

I completely agree and this is my point with the Greg Monroe SnT rumors. I'm not saying that Greg will make the Hawks lightyears better, but sticking with same guys is dangerous and get us nothing more than we already have gotten. You have to take chances to be great, especially when you're the Hawks and signing players has shown to be difficult. Everybody loves Korver and appreciates what Sap gives us, but they aren't apart of the future. Monroe has a great chance to be a major cog in Bud's system. There are only so many Durant's and CP3's in the league and Sap/Korver isn't going to net a player like that. Gotta make trades and draft well.

It also seems a lot of posters think we should just hold out for the next Harden opportunity too. We could be waiting for ever and posters will blame Ferry for it not happening too. Give me Greg Monroe and then find us a starting 2 and 3 guard, Ferry.

[Guest]

It may even be worse. At least we nailed Horford to make the leap. They passed on All-Stars, NBA Finals MVPs and ROYs with every pick except 2012's pick (which I didn't trace back far enough suffice to say they passed on stud shotblocker John Henson so they could trade for Marko Jaric lol).

That deserves a P-eeeeewwwww!

[DatWerkk]

Where is Kyrie Irving in these discussions? Behind a healthy Rose, he's the best PG in the East.

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

Good one!

[Guest]

Sounds like Miami. And we all know what happened there. Eastern domination

Not really.  I think Wade and Bosh had a wee bit more playoff experience than Kyrie & the Gang.

[yungsta]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

Good one!

well if you look at the top pgs in the east he can make a solid argument for kyrie being the 2nd best pg in the east. Most of the elite pgs are in the west.

 

(In no Order)

Kyle Lowry

John Wall

Rondo (still recovering from torn ACL)

Jeff teague

Deron Williams

Kemba Walker

[EazyRoc]

I completely agree and this is my point with the Greg Monroe SnT rumors. I'm not saying that Greg will make the Hawks lightyears better, but sticking with same guys is dangerous and get us nothing more than we already have gotten. You have to take chances to be great, especially when you're the Hawks and signing players has shown to be difficult. Everybody loves Korver and appreciates what Sap gives us, but they aren't apart of the future. Monroe has a great chance to be a major cog in Bud's system. There are only so many Durant's and CP3's in the league and Sap/Korver isn't going to net a player like that. Gotta make trades and draft well.

It also seems a lot of posters think we should just hold out for the next Harden opportunity too. We could be waiting for ever and posters will blame Ferry for it not happening too. Give me Greg Monroe and then find us a starting 2 and 3 guard, Ferry.

Lmao Greg Monroe isnt a star and id bet my left arm he never becomes one.

[EazyRoc]

I can't like this post enough. I feel like there's a handful of posters on this site that actually appreciate that you need STAR PLAYERS to win a title and doing anything less to get them is literally the worst position you can be in the NBA. Treadmills are evil. And yet most of the posters on this board are seemingly fine with never reaching for the stars. It just makes me sad. Honestly sad.

How do you propose we get this mystery star player ?

[Guest]

How do you propose we get this mystery star player ?

C'mon maaan, think - don't tell me you can't figure out that you T-T-T.............

TANK!

[Sothron]

How do you propose we get this mystery star player ?

Considering we can't even get a whiff of anyone in free agency there's only two other means: trade or draft.

[Dejay]

I think now is a good time to reemphasize a point that have been making over and over for the last 10 years.  The NBA is constantly evolving.  Overnight, things change dramatically and here we are again.

 

Who will it be next year?  

Who makes the next big trade?  

Who will be the next breakout star?

 

This is why you can't d*ck around as a middling team making incremental and lateral changes.

 

And it's always the same damn tired excuse why teams leapfrog us: "Oh, [insert new elite team] just got lucky.  They wouldn't even be in that position if [insert thing that puts them over].  If we had just [insert excuse for losing in the 1st/2nd round] we could have [blah blah blah]."

 

Guess what?  Nobody cares about that tired ass song.  All that matters is right now.  The only people that care about "if's" and "but's" are the whiners like us that don't get invited to the party.  

 

How do we get there?  It's simple.  We need to stop acting like there is any other way to win in sports besides building a team around guys who are the best at what they do.  It's not complicated, but we're making it complicated and prolonging the inevitable by LIMITING our options.  

 

The kind of talent we need is drafted in the lottery - like Kevin Love who is about to net Minny two very decent young building blocks/assets.  We are trying to make the playoffs every year so we are discarding an option.

 

Elite talent sometimes comes with some baggage.  Just like the BK era, we are targeting guys that "fit" a particular vision instead of focusing on talent acquisition.

 

Big time moves require big time assets - lottery picks, top tier talent, former lottery picks.  The only real asset we have is Al Horford.  Yet, the thought of trading this guy for the last few seasons causes everybody to gasp in horror and shout "blasphemy!"  Hell, we're holding onto Millsap the same damn way.

 

How exactly are we supposed to move the needle?  Are we banking on free agency...?  We can't even get players to schedule a serious meeting with us.

 

Danny Ferry's vision/plan is too narrowly focused.  We could land a miraculous late 1st/2nd round pick or pull off a surprising trade somewhere.  We could gamble on a Joe Johnson type RFA - IF they want to come here and IF they don't get matched.  Any of that could turn our favor...but it's stupid to put all of our eggs in a small basket.  We are not the Spurs and we don't have the luxury of being so picky.

 

How long I've been saying this on HS? Ten years? Twelve?

 

Just about every offseason while contenders are making waves by acquiring REAL players, we're too scared to make a GD ripple. And I hate to bring this up but the big secret is out now. Everyone in the basketball world knows that this is a middling 4-7th seed team in the junior varsity conference of the NBA. No shot of getting a lottery pick that can help (not that they draft worth a flip when they have those picks anyway) and absolutely no shot of beating a team in the playoffs that isn't in the middle of a collapse of hysterical proportions (see Pacers, Indiana). That's the only thing we can hang our hats on nowadays, folks; we made the playoffs seven years and a row and took the Pacers to a Game 7. Meanwhile, the contending teams in the league are laughing at us. Loudly.

 

And through it all, we're still debating why the fans here don't show up unless Lebron or Kobe is in town? We wonder why (insert free agent here) wouldn't even bother talking to them over the summer? You're telling me that the best they could do with all of that cap space over the last two years was Millsap, who in all likelihood will be in another uniform a year from now?

 

We had this one called a long time ago, Wretch and Sothron. The biggest enemy of being great is the fear of losing the grip of being good....

[Guest]

Considering we can't even get a whiff of anyone in free agency there's only two other means: trade or draft.

Or maybe this is our chance to further develop one of the younguns on our roster. Pick between Teague, Dennis and Payne - do they have a chance? Why or why not?

[Wretch]

They did an unsuccessful job rebuilding.

 

OKC nailed their picks.  

 

Minny?  Not so much.  Let's look at their top 2 or 3 first round picks each year:

 

2009:

Pick #1 - Passed on Stephen Curry to take Ricky Rubio

Pick #2 - Passed on Demar Derozan, Taj Gibson & others to take Johny Flynn

Pick #3 - Drafted Ty Lawson (the best of the 3 PGs they drafted) and traded him before he suited up

Picks screwed up?  3 of 3.

 

Bonus Screw-up:  Drafted Nick Cathales and gave him up for a future second round pick

 

2010:

Pick #1 - Passed on Demarcus Cousins, Greg Monroe & Paul George for Wesley Johnson

Pick #2 - Passed on Eric Bledsoe & Avery Bradley for Luke Babbit

Pick #3 - Picked Trevor Booker (the best of the 3 players they drafted) and traded him before he suited up for Lazar Hayward

Picks screwed up?  3 of 3.

 

2011:

Pick #1 - Passed on Jonas Valanciunas, Klay Thompson, Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker, Kahwi Leonard for Derrick Williams

Pick #2 - Passed on Kenneth Faried, Jimmy Butler, Nikola Mirotic, and Reggie Jackson for Donatus Matiejunas

Picks screwed up?  2 of 2.

 

2012:

Pick #1 - Passed on Terence Jones, Jared Sullinger, Draymond Green, Miles Plumlee and traded pick for $16M worth of Chase Budinger (started 9 games in year 2 of 4)

Picks screwed up?  1 of 1.  (I blame them the least for this one since Budinger has had serious injuries that probably couldn't reasonably have been projected)

 

2013: 

Pick #1 - Passed on Michael Carter-Williams, Giannis, Steven Adams and others to trade for Dieng and Shabazz Muhammed.

Picks screwed up?  TBD.  This could still workout OK if Dieng really blossoms (I have little hope for Muhammed).

 

So Minnesota had their chances and whiffed, IMO.  They couldn't have been expected to nail every one of these picks but they could have been a very, very good team if they had nailed some of those picks.

 

I'd rather have a shot and miss than be in a position where I have no shot.

 

First thought that jumped to my mind was the Billy Knight.  People love to use that as an example of how rebuilding through the draft doesn't work...but flat out ignore the ridiculous decision making.  In the case of BK, the Marvin pick...he had absolutely no excuse for.  Nobody would have blamed him for drafting a PG.  Hell, if getting Marvin was such a big deal...he should have made room for him by moving some guys.

 

 

I can't like this post enough. I feel like there's a handful of posters on this site that actually appreciate that you need STAR PLAYERS to win a title and doing anything less to get them is literally the worst position you can be in the NBA. Treadmills are evil. And yet most of the posters on this board are seemingly fine with never reaching for the stars. It just makes me sad. Honestly sad.

 

Dude....  Danny Ferry is the current golden boy.  He can do no wrong.  Amazingly, people will trip all over logic, common sense, and the hard facts based on DECADES of NBA basketball just to show their support for him.  I said this 3 years ago, but talent acquisition, by any means available to us, should be the #1 priority.  Instead, the #1 priority is remaining competitive and we are shooting ourselves in the foot so bad with that...

 

If Ferry continues to tweak the roster every year JUST to stay in the playoffs with the same core of competitive guys...HOW is that any different from WLOC?  Is it more acceptable to lose in the 1st or 2nd round just because we LOOK better playing average basketball?

[Sothron]

Or maybe this is our chance to further develop one of the younguns on our roster. Pick between Teague, Dennis and Payne - do they have a chance? Why or why not?

I have been on record for trading Teague to give minutes to Dennis. I'm not that big on Payne as I said before I can't stand old rookies and Payne is an old rookie. I will say that I'd rather give him consistent backup minutes than give them to Mike Scott who I happily would have let walked out of here.

Dennis is the only young guy on our roster that has the potential to maybe be a star player. That just isn't enough to seriously contend for a title. My fear is that we will be forced to trade Horford after this season because he won't stay here because he wants to go be a part of an actual contender. And that DF will overreact by giving Millsap a near max or even max deal when Paul isn't even on Joe Johnson's level as a player.

[yungsta]

Or maybe this is our chance to further develop one of the younguns on our roster. Pick between Teague, Dennis and Payne - do they have a chance? Why or why not?

cant comment on dennis or payne with such a small sample sizes but with teague entering his 6th year I think we can begin to grasp the kind of player he will be for most of his career which is a solid but not great pg.

 

some players do "break out" in their late 20's but im not betting on it

Edited August 7, 2014 by yungsta

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Lmao Greg Monroe isnt a star and id bet my left arm he never becomes one.

 

Never said he was a star.  Just said that he has a chance at being a major piece to the puzzle.  He fits a need and no longer wants to be in Detroit.  A tandem of Monroe/Horford is complimentary and would be offensively elite.  Even on defense it's good.  Millsap and Korver aren't apart of the future.  Horford and maybe Teague the only keepers on this team.

[buckeye242424]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

Good one!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion... Laugh all you want. But I'd take Irving over any of our three PG's before I blink. I mean... He just, ummm just was an All-Star MVP ... Not a big deal

[Guest]

Dude....  Danny Ferry is the current golden boy.  He can do no wrong.  Amazingly, people will trip all over logic, common sense, and the hard facts based on DECADES of NBA basketball just to show their support for him.  I said this 3 years ago, but talent acquisition, by any means available to us, should be the #1 priority.  Instead, the #1 priority is remaining competitive and we are shooting ourselves in the foot so bad with that...

 

If Ferry continues to tweak the roster every year JUST to stay in the playoffs with the same core of competitive guys...HOW is that any different from WLOC?  Is it more acceptable to lose in the 1st or 2nd round just because we LOOK better playing average basketball?

I think the majority of the board is fine with this.  Anyone who speaks against it is labeled a tanker and has his/her basketball knowledge questioned.  Very McCarthy-esque.

 

I fully expect Ferry to tweak away and we'll stay 4-7 seed/2nd round ceiling.  He'll be here as long as Waddell was with the Thrashers unless something crazy happens.

 

I'm hoping 'something crazy' is Millsap leaving for a better deal after the season.  My hope is that it'll force his hand to do something ... anything other than affix another band-aid on this ebola virus we have as a franchise. (Do I get points for the current events reference?)

[IheartVolt]

Maybe.... but watching this rigged league continue to screw 3/4's of its fan base does make me bleed from my eyes.. what a pathetic league we have to endure. What a pathetic fan base

[AHF]

Or maybe this is our chance to further develop one of the younguns on our roster. Pick between Teague, Dennis and Payne - do they have a chance? Why or why not?

I don't think Teague is a star but he can step up to the level of his playoff play if he can learn to instill consistent effort and aggression in his game.  He has never done that but if he can he will go from an average PG to an above average one.  He will never be in the discussion for best PG in the NBA.

 

Dennis has the highest ceiling and lowest floor of these guys.  I was excited about the pick and remain a supporter.  I am hopeful that he emerges this year but think it will be tough to develop him with all the minutes that Teague and Mack will take.  

 

I am not at all optimistic that Payne will be a star given his profile and age but I will reserve judgment until he actually plays.  

 

At this point, I would bet against each of these guys being a star.  Heck, if Walter can develop he may be the guy with the most potential of them even though he is years away.

 

If we are going to rely on these types of hopes, though, you might as well add Mike Scott and John Jenkins to the list and put them down as potential stars as well.