Scott vs. Payne

[Gray Mule]

Peoriabird:  Statement was made, tongue in cheek, trying to point out, as you

have said, no two players are the same.

 

But, you must agree, it's nice to have more than one player who can play a

certain position and it's even better if they can play more than one.

 

[Dirtybird26]

Scott

[AHF]

Scott is getting severely underrated easily top 5 pf off the bench in the nba last year

 

I would definitely not say "easily top 5."  I would trade him for off the bench production at PF by guys like:

 

Taj Gibson

John Henson

Ryan Anderson

Boris Diaw

Patrick Patterson

Mason Plumlee

Draymond Green

Markieff Morris

Jordan Hill

DeJuan Blair 

Brandan Wright

[Packfill]

I am guessing that you are concluding that what you do in college is what you do in the pros even though Paul Millsap didn't shoot 3's in college nor was Horford  a volume scorer in college etc.  Did Jordan lead the nation in scoring?  What about Derrick Rose?  You are flat out wrong if that is your assumption. 

If you are going to make a statement like that you better come up with some more viable comps.  Jordan?  Two time first team all american, acc freshman of the year and NCAA player of the year - I am guessing quite a few people envisoned him becoming a big time scoring threat in the NBA.  Derrick Rose?  Due only played one season in the NCAA and was selected first overall specifically because of his upside both as a scorer and distributor. 

 

Are there examples of guys who averaged less than a block a game in the NCAA who became prolific NBA shotblockers?  This guy was not exactly Nerlens Noel in college.  That is not to say Payne won't become a solid player, but shooting prowess is definitely something I think players can develop over the years.

[Peoriabird]

If you are going to make a statement like that you better come up with some more viable comps.  Jordan?  Two time first team all american, acc freshman of the year and NCAA player of the year - I am guessing quite a few people envisoned him becoming a big time scoring threat in the NBA.  Derrick Rose?  Due only played one season in the NCAA and was selected first overall specifically because of his upside both as a scorer and distributor. 

 

Are there examples of guys who averaged less than a block a game in the NCAA who became prolific NBA shotblockers?  This guy was not exactly Nerlens Noel in college.  That is not to say Payne won't become a solid player, but shooting prowess is definitely something I think players can develop over the years.

Michael Jordan averaged 17.7 points per game during his college career...Rose averaged 14.9 points per game...As a comparison Michael Beasley averaged 26.2 points per game in his only season in college.  But if you want a better example, Hakeem Olajuwon 13.3 points per game in college but then 22.5 per season as a pro minus his last season in Toronto.  But you understand my point I hope.

[Packfill]

Michael Jordan averaged 17.7 points per game during his college career...Rose averaged 14.9 points per game...As a comparison Michael Beasley averaged 26.2 points per game in his only season in college.  But if you want a better example, Hakeem Olajuwon 13.3 points per game in college but then 22.5 per season as a pro minus his last season in Toronto.  But you understand my point I hope.

What is your point?  You obviously missed mine.  We all know and agree that there are legions of examples of middling scorers in college that become prolific in the NBA.  You previously identified Payne's potential value as rim protector and rebounder.  Another poster noted that he was not particularly distinguished in those areas in college.  So, please provide examples of mediocre college rebounders and shotblockers who became volume rebounders and/or shotblockers in the pros?  You for sure can at least identify some dude who left after only playing a year or two in the NCAA only to improve as he matured.  In the case of Payne, however, we have a four year player who is already 23, so you might expect him to have some success playing against an 18 year old Noah Vonleh.

[Peoriabird]

What is your point?  You obviously missed mine.  We all know and agree that there are legions of examples of middling scorers in college that become prolific in the NBA.  You previously identified Payne's potential value as rim protector and rebounder.  Another poster noted that he was not particularly distinguished in those areas in college.  So, please provide examples of mediocre college rebounders and shotblockers who became volume rebounders and/or shotblockers in the pros?  You for sure can at least identify some dude who left after only playing a year or two in the NCAA only to improve as he matured.  In the case of Payne, however, we have a four year player who is already 23, so you might expect him to have some success playing against an 18 year old Noah Vonleh.

Adreian Payne's rebounding rate per40 was the same as Andre Drummond in college

[Peoriabird]

Adreian Payne's freshman block rate per40 was 3.7 vs 3.8 for  Andre Drummond

Edited August 15, 2014 by Peoriabird

[Peoriabird]

Adreian Payne's per40 rebounding rate 10.5   per40 block rate 3.7 as a freshman

 

Deandre Jordan per40 rebounding rate  11.9   per40 block rate 2.5 as a freshman

[Peoriabird]

Deandre Jordan and Andre Drummond were 1 and 2 in rebounding this past season... Plus Deandre Jordan was 3rd in the league in block shots

[AHF]

Using Payne's freshman stats is a bit hard for me to swallow due to small sample size - particularly when you have another 2400 minutes of play after his 300 minute freshman year.  The guy played less than 10 minutes per game so the small sample size distorts the significance of the numbers - particularly the block rate.  The other guys you are citing played two to three times as many minutes as freshmen and even there you are still talking about pretty limited sample size of 35 or so games.

 

Payne's per 40 block rate was 1.8 for his sophomore through senior seasons.  That is less than half of what it was in his freshman year due to the limited minutes he played.  Given the larger sample size, I would rely more on the total track record than his freshman year unless you want to argue that he majorly regressed during his college years as a shotblocker (the truth is he was pretty consistent but small freshman sample size distorted his rate that season).

[Packfill]

Adreian Payne's freshman block rate per40 was 3.7 vs 3.8 for  Andre Drummond

Holdy sample size batman!  Payne played 9 minutes per game as a freshmen; Drummond played 28 minutes per game (which is the same as what Payne played as a Senior while he average less than one block per game).

[thecampster]

Comparing college stats is just plain ridiculous.  Scheme is 50% of the battle in college, not personal ability.  Example 1, see Marvin Williams.

[thecampster]

Using Marvin's college stats @ per 40 for his freshman year with an ample 22.2 mpg sample size. 

 

20.3 ppg

50.6 fg%

43.2 3FG%

1.26 APG

11.88 RPG

.9 BPG

2  SPG

 

According to your college stats concept.  Marvin Williams is a 20 ppg, 12 Reb, 2 spg player...IE Dwight Howard but hits 85% Free Throws.  This is why scheme and team > talent in college basketball.