Melo: Free agents will spurn Hawks

[NBASupes]

In all fairness, why would a team want to trade for Milsap? I could understand a contender but they don't want to trade value for him. Pretenders would trade a pick but that would be a later 1st with Sap on their team. So a bad team has no interest as Sap does little to nothing for them PR, marketing, or impact wise so who would trade for Sap. No one considering our price which is why his FA value isn't high as is his trade value. The only two players with good trade value on this team Dennis and Horford. Horf value is at an all time low. Dennis is potential value so it might not be as good as we want it to be.

 

We are pretty much stuck in limbo. You can trade for a bad contract who's a good player but we don't need that. We need a hit. A top player. We can only get that via the draft or FA. We are too good for the draft and too unattractive for FA. So we are stuck in limbo but now with Levenson and Ferry, we are in quicksand and we are extremely deep into it as well.

[Afro]

In all fairness, why would a team want to trade for Milsap? I could understand a contender but they don't want to trade value for him. Pretenders would trade a pick but that would be a later 1st with Sap on their team. So a bad team has no interest as Sap does little to nothing for them PR, marketing, or impact wise so who would trade for Sap. No one considering our price which is why his FA value isn't high as is his trade value. The only two players with good trade value on this team Dennis and Horford. Horf value is at an all time low. Dennis is potential value so it might not be as good as we want it to be.

We are pretty much stuck in limbo. You can trade for a bad contract who's a good player but we don't need that. We need a hit. A top player. We can only get that via the draft or FA. We are too good for the draft and too unattractive for FA. So we are stuck in limbo but now with Levenson and Ferry, we are in quicksand and we are extremely deep into it as well.

Do the Knicks have a PF? That's the only team I can think of with a need and assets to acquire him. All the good teams don't have assets cause they pick in the back of the draft.... Like us lol

[Afro]

The hawks could only convince Thabo and Bazemore to come here. They had a lot of other options that said no thanks.

How do yall think thats going to get better? Getting the the conference finals? Perhaps. But you have to get there.

[NBASupes]

Poverty  and lack of education  will limit how far up the social and professional ladder you can climb. Experience and personal perception and ideology  shapes how you think .  Thats why you have such different viewpoints on this issue . I have white friends that think it was racist just as I have black friends that dont think its a big deal . I have liberal friends that  dont think it was a big deal as well as conservative friends that do .   Bottom line is if you dont think Ferry is a racist but still want him gone  what does that say about  the climate in America ??

Poverty is in part to a lot of things in a realm and miseducation is as popular as education in this country if not far more popular I would say. Exp and personal perception has a part in the shaping of a person. Society is a major part of a person makeup as well as it measures a lot. Only a white man would say otherwise. Ask any white woman in reference to a white man or a Black person in general who isn't asskissing for pats on the head and they will tell you. There is a difference between bigot and racist. Far too often, we get these terms confused. You can't benefit from this system even if someone tries to explain you can because there is always major barriers regardless of the level that's achieved for someone who is not white. As for being a bigot, anyone can be a bigot. Anyone, young, old, regardless of race can be a bigot. What Danny did was prejudice but it was also racist because if placed a man in an inferior position to his superior position and use it's as a knock to the person he perceived to be inferior. The prejudice part was just the whole African quote in general. That's prejudice. That's the part people want to call racist but in reality it wasn't. It was his stance and place of position he took that made it racist.

 

Right now we are in a system of white supremacy. The main message at this time is covert racism. That system effects every intuition in the United States of America as well as every person. It's a global system as well and is being practiced global. We must understand that system to understand racism. 

 

i think he's a racist, I don't think he's a bigot which is also like to reference to extremists of any group or type of ppl. I think the climate of race is worst than anytime in the last 14 years due to the economic downturn and image that Blacks are doing well when more educated Blacks, especially women are suffering in more ways than anytime since the 1960's. It's a widespread epidemic going on where you have ppl starting kickstarters for white cop rapists and white cop killers of Black boys and girls. This is very satanic times my friend.

Edited September 14, 2014 by nbasupes40retired

[NBASupes]

Do the Knicks have a PF? That's the only team I can think of with a need and assets to acquire him. All the good teams don't have assets cause they pick in the back of the draft.... Like us lol

What would they offer us? They get Sap with Melo and they are a lock for a top 6 seed in the East if not better. Let's just be real and call it what it is. Since we traded Joe to Brooklyn, we have had worst draft positions than they have each of the last two seasons. Trading a fringe All Star to play with a superstar like Melo to get a 16-24 pick isn't a good idea at all.

[Sothron]

As myself and others have said my fears are that we were never a serious free agent destination before this. NOW what are we? Seriously, what kind of chance do we have to sign let alone keep players with Ferry's name being mud? I know they brought Brand back after this but he had a personal relationship with Ferry and Bud as a returning player. And frankly Brand is just bench fodder at this point.

I said it before and I will say it again: on the face of this Ferry shouldn't lose his job but if players are not going to come here then he has to go. The Atlanta Hawks franchise is more important than the A$G and Ferry.

[NBASupes]

The hawks could only convince Thabo and Bazemore to come here. They had a lot of other options that said no thanks.

How do yall think thats going to get better? Getting the the conference finals? Perhaps. But you have to get there.

You must have forgot about Bazemore quote that offended HS about no one wants to come here but I want the chance to play and show the league I can be the player I know I am when he signed. I don't have the quote but it's somewhere online. Look at how much we paid Thabo, guys on his level are taking the vet min or not getting signed and we are paying him 3 mil a yr.

[Afro]

What would they offer us? They get Sap with Melo and they are a lock for a top 6 seed in the East if not better. Let's just be real and call it what it is. Since we traded Joe to Brooklyn, we have had worst draft positions than they have each of the last two seasons. Trading a fringe All Star to play with a superstar like Melo to get a 16-24 pick isn't a good idea at all.

Shumpert and Hardaway are the only things. But I doubt they'd make that trade anyway. I'm not the biggest fan of theirs, but if for some reason Millsap needs to be traded I'm not sure what better options we will have.

However if Payne is good, we could use trading front court talent for young back court talent

[NBASupes]

Shumpert and Hardaway are the only things. But I doubt they'd make that trade anyway. I'm not the biggest fan of theirs, but if for some reason Millsap needs to be traded I'm not sure what better options we will have.

However if Payne is good, we could use trading front court talent for young back court talent

From what I seen from Payne, he's a rotational player at best. He's Marcus Fizer with range to me. Some on here like to compare him to Robert Horry. I don't see in Payne to be a SF unlike Horry who could play forward in general.

 

Shump is meh and Hardaway isn't a fit in our offensive system. Neither player interest me for our system.

[SalvorMallow]

This is a great thread because we get to touch on a real world issue. That is racial and cultural differences.

 

Dolf is early 40 late 30's and AHF is probably mid to early 40's white guys.

 

I am in my late 20's and you seem to be late 20's early 30's black guys.

 

The difference is simple. For most white guys, they said things they probably didn't mean and in their mind, it doesn't make them a bad person especially if they have Blacks who come out to their defense such as Ferry's case.

 

For that, they think it's okay and as long as they are sorry, they should be able to go back to doing their jobs normally. Now many if not most Blacks especially men are always on edge in this country with Whites due to covert racism and the hidden and hard felt effects of it. So when a White guy says this and they don't really have a relationship with him, they are sold that this guy ain't ish and he's the devil because it's hard to pinpoint the struggles they have when through, even as a star athlete or just growing up period. They are far less forgiven. Hence SAR yahoo article in response to Ferry.

 

What they don't get is unlike real life where they have all the advantages and Blacks well don't, in the NBA, this is a Black dominated sport. So they have options here. You can't say reckless shit and think ppl will be cool with it. So what we have is an epic problem which White guys don't see because they are use of the world revolving around them and Blacks clearly see it, even the ones who love to kiss whites asses for pats on the head. This is a major problem and as you mention, we were already like a ugly girl at the prom, now we are the ugly girl at the prom with a STD. Good luck getting a date. I tried to compare whites in GA voting for Blacks and democrats to make them understand but their mindset refuses to let them see that do to their use of supremacy. You see why I rarely go into race here even when most of the issues here revolve around race. You solve nothing in the process since they don't want to change or understand because it usually benefits them.

 

This is a major dynamic of HS we almost never talk about and for many reasons.

 

This isn't a demographic issue, it's an ideology issue.  I'm a 28 year old black male who feels like Ferry's comment was taken out of context by the snake Gearon.  While punishment and sensitivity training should be necessary, I am very against Ferry's termination for such a minor offense.   I agree with Dolfan that this thing will blow over by the middle of the season.  

 

Of course, it's obvious that you are biased and wanted Ferry gone before this event even occurred, so I'm sure it is no trouble at all for you to jump onto the "FIRE FERRY!" bandwagon.

[NBASupes]

This isn't a demographic issue, it's an ideology issue.  I'm a 28 year old black male who feels like Ferry's comment was taken out of context by the snake Gearon.  While punishment and sensitivity training should be necessary, I am very against Ferry's termination for such a minor offense.   I agree with Dolfan that this thing will blow over by the middle of the season.  

 

Of course, it's obvious that you are biased and wanted Ferry gone before this event even occurred, so I'm sure it is no trouble at all for you to jump onto the "FIRE FERRY!" bandwagon.

How was it taken out of context?

 

I can see how you wouldn't like Gearon for exposing a GM you may like to the general public which is understandable to a degree but what was taken out of context?

 

The reason for termination is this isn't construction or even the corporate world where Blacks are either far and between or in inferior positions. This is where they general make up the vast % of workers and are valued at a premium. Doing racial ish is a dead sentence just like Coach P.J. was blackballed when he got CHOKED out by Latrell Speewell. You must remember what we are referencing here.

 

As for firing Ferry, that should be based on his job performance for me, not this statement but this statement is clearly blackball worthy material especially for someone in a power position like Ferry. He is not the owner which means he's easily replaceable via the by laws.

Edited September 14, 2014 by nbasupes40retired

[Afro]

This isn't a demographic issue, it's an ideology issue. I'm a 28 year old black male who feels like Ferry's comment was taken out of context by the snake Gearon. While punishment and sensitivity training should be necessary, I am very against Ferry's termination for such a minor offense. I agree with Dolfan that this thing will blow over by the middle of the season.

Of course, it's obvious that you are biased and wanted Ferry gone before this event even occurred, so I'm sure it is no trouble at all for you to jump onto the "FIRE FERRY!" bandwagon.

You honestly think rival GMs aren't bringing this up next free agency?

[Diesel]

The same can be said for those who didn't want Ferry or agree with his approach to building the team.

 

 

Not so fast....  That's not true.  IF Ferry's statement effects his ability to go out and recruit free agents to come to Atlanta, then regardless of if you or a homer for Ferry or a hater of Ferry, he has to go.

It is not a question of do you like Ferry, it is a question of did what Ferry do cause him to be hamstrung now.  From one source, we're seeing yes.

Also, this is not a straw poll on your feelings of Melo either.  Melo is simply a representation of players that are free agents...Period.

[NBASupes]

You honestly think rival GMs aren't bringing this up next free agency?

Of course they are. He likes Ferry. He likes Ferry work as GM after guys like Sund and Knight. He wants to see Ferry continued progress as a Hawks fan but he hasn't seen the other side of the coin yet. That's the death sentence, that's the part he doesn't see. You see, FA aren't Hawks fans like me and you. They look for what's best for them as players. Unless they have no options, the Hawks aren't an option as long as Levenson and Ferry remain.

[Diesel]

At the end of the day, Ferry's comments don't affect the amount of money the Hawks can offer or the playing time available. I highly doubt our players start playing worse because of these comments, so winning is likely unaffected.

 

 

I would believe that...however, I have seen players leave the old Clipps. For years.  When Sterling was running the team on the cheap, guys would avoid playing for the Clipps.  I have seen players do the same with Vancouver.  Who could forget Steve Francis with his lip out and then holding out until Vancouver traded him.   Moreover, I have seen FAs use us as Leverage to get the deals that they wanted from other teams... all the way back to when Rick Fox was a free agent.   Certain teams have a Stigma attached to them.  Whether it is announced or just amoung players, it is one that exists.  That kind of thing goes beyond Money or Playing Time.

[SalvorMallow]

How was it taken out of context?

 

I can see how you wouldn't like Gearon for exposing a GM you may like to the general public which is understandable to a degree but what was taken out of context?

 

The reason for termination is this isn't construction or even the corporate world where Blacks are either far and between or in inferior positions. This is where they general make up the vast % of workers and are valued at a premium. Doing racial ish is a dead sentence just like Coach P.J. was blackballed when he got CHOKED out by Latrell Speewell. You must remember what we are referencing here.

 

As for firing Ferry, that should be based on his job performance for me, not this statement but this statement is clearly blackball worthy material especially for someone in a power position like Ferry. He is not the owner which means he's easily replaceable via the by laws.

 

It's my understanding that Ferry ranted for 5 minutes about how great of a basketball player and person Deng was prior to making this statement.  Removing that from the audio and from the letter that he released is, by definition, taking the statement out of context.

 

In my opinion, the type of job has no bearing on what comments should or shouldn't be made.  Ferry was ABSOLUTELY wrong in making those comments, and would have been wrong making those comments even if he was associated with NASCAR rather than the NBA, and in either case, punishment and sensitivity training should be required.

 

If he wanted to reference those comments from the scouting report, he should have heavily paraphrased, abstracting all racial context from the report.  Listening to the audio, it sounds like he had not pre-read the report, and so was not prepared to redact the inappropriate statements.

 

I agree with the meaning of your last paragraph whole-heartedly.  If Ferry is unable to put a quality product on the floor because his reputation is tarnished, then we terminate for a lack of job performance, not because of the comments themselves.  It is entirely too early to make that assessment right now, which is why I feel Ferry should be retained.

Edited September 14, 2014 by SalvorMallow

[Diesel]

 Bottom line is if you dont think Ferry is a racist but still want him gone  what does that say about  the climate in America ??

 

It means that Perception is Reality.  If Ferry is perceived by the players as being racist (don't forget Bonzi Wells) then it doesn't matter what you or I may believe about Ferry.  Ferry has lost credibility where it matters the most...

[SalvorMallow]

You honestly think rival GMs aren't bringing this up next free agency?

 

I do think they will be.  I'm sure GMs do whatever they can to persuade players to sign with their team rather than a rival team.  The efficacy of this tactic is what I question.

[NBASupes]

It's my understanding that Ferry ranted for 5 minutes about how great of a basketball player and person Deng was prior to making this statement.  Removing that from the audio and from the letter that he released is, by definition, taking the statement out of context.

 

In my opinion, the type of job has no bearing on what comments should or shouldn't be made.  Ferry was ABSOLUTELY wrong in making those comments, and would have been wrong making those comments even if he was associated with NASCAR rather than the NBA, and in either case, punishment and sensitivity training should be required.

 

If he wanted to reference those comments from the scouting report, he should have heavily paraphrased, abstracting all racial context from the report.  Listening to the audio, it sounds like he had not pre-read the report, and so was not prepared to redact the inappropriate statements.

 

I agree with the meaning of your last paragraph whole-heartedly.  If Ferry is unable to put a quality product on the floor because his reputation is tarnished, then we terminate for a lack of job performance, not because of the comments themselves.  It is entirely too early to make that assessment right now, which is why I feel Ferry should be retained.

It was a statement that didn't need to be said. This ain't the 1940's and Jackie Robinson's era. In today's world where you have ppl claim falsehoods like post racial, you better shut your damn mouth on controversial statements. It shows arrogance, racist views, and prejudice that wasn't needed in the workplace.

 

But it does have baring hence Melo's comment on the obvious. You clearly aren't looking at this from any perspective other than your perspective which goes back to my cultural and racial aspect of society that is generally unspoken about. He could make that statement in NASCAR and be forgiven and continue with his job, in the NBA, not a chance in hell. Different climate and different values.

 

You are saying a lot of nothing in this particular paragraph and it's quite meaningless. Be clear and precise on your main points. Don't Jessie Jackson us. 

 

It will be clearly tarnished, that's why this thread exist because the valued commodity here is Blacks and they make the decisions on where they play during FA's and even trades, this tarnishes our chances at those players which makes Ferry's chances at keeping this job and getting another GM job next to nil. He could get another NBA gig but never as a GM unless it's 10 years down the road.

 

 

I would believe that...however, I have seen players leave the old Clipps. For years.  When Sterling was running the team on the cheap, guys would avoid playing for the Clipps.  I have seen players do the same with Vancouver.  Who could forget Steve Francis with his lip out and then holding out until Vancouver traded him.   Moreover, I have seen FAs use us as Leverage to get the deals that they wanted from other teams... all the way back to when Rick Fox was a free agent.   Certain teams have a Stigma attached to them.  Whether it is announced or just amoung players, it is one that exists.  That kind of thing goes beyond Money or Playing Time.

Money- Thabo, he was going to get vet min or not signed at all.

 

PT- Bazemore.

 

But if it's equal elsewhere, players aren't signing with the Hawks at all regardless of what we offer even if it's more.

[NBASupes]

You see the Clippers not signing people as a signal that the Clippers have some sort of a problem. I see that as the Clippers not offering contracts up to par with what a player would want. Hence my suggestion of the 3 things that do matter.

How do you propose we can disentangle the two? It seems like the simpler and rational case that explains human behavior is that the Clippers did not offer the contracts. I mean, I can point to Baron Davis as someone who is vocal politically and yet he chose to sign with the Clippers because they offered him a max contract. That would appear to strike down your suggestion in favor of mine.

Of course another example at the time is that Elton went to the Sixers when the Baron move happened even though reports were of identical contract offers between Philly and LA. Playing time wouldn't be an issue, but it appears that the Sixers went further in the playoffs those following years than the Clippers did.

No, Elton said at that time he left LAC because of Sterling. He stated that at the time. Sam Cassell also spoke out v. Sterling. Elton also mention that he liked the idea of being back on the East Coast. Winning had little to do with it. They had some success in LAC with bash kids or whatever they called Miles, Q, and Odom.

 

As for Baron, he wanted to go back to LA like Lou Williams wanted to come to Atlanta. They both had good offers from Philly and GS but both wanted to go back home.

Edited September 14, 2014 by nbasupes40retired