Retrospect: The worth of a Star.

[Diesel]

Ferry was applauded for dropping the contract of Joe Johnson  3 years ago.

 

For Joe Johnson we got several capspace players and a 1st round pick.

 

Again Ferry was applauded for that move.

 

Our record sense that time:

 

40-26      60.6%

44-38      53.7%

38-44      46.3%

1-2          33.3%

 

I know that there were circumstances...

Our major acquisitions? 

 

Capspace.  And maybe Korver.

 

People say that Joe was done.   Looked at Joe the other day.  He's the leader of the Nets.  His statline right now:  22 ppg, 4.3apg, 5.8 rpg  shooting 50.7% from the field and  42% from three.

 

Subject to change... I know.  But there's good health and good coaching in NJ now.  And Joe is shining..

 

The interesting thing is we have Bud.  We have Ferry's capspace pickups... Bazemore and Thabo.  We have Ferry's draft picks...

And his belief that you don't need stars.

 

But as I look around the league, it's the stars whoose teams are doing the best:

 

DMC in Sactown.

D12 in Houston.

Bosh in Miami

Aldridge in PTL

 

What is the worth of a star?

 

[Afro]

People were mad that JJ wasn't a true superstar but was getting paid like won.

It was a valid complaint, but he was still a great player, and the best one we've had for years.

Looking back I wouldn't make that deal, but I guess it's pointless now.

[Diesel]

People were mad that JJ wasn't a true superstar but was getting paid like won.

It was a valid complaint, but he was still a great player, and the best one we've had for years.

Looking back I wouldn't make that deal, but I guess it's pointless now.

 

We were paying the price for having a fringe level star that we didn't draft.

7 time allstar and will probably go again this year.

 

If I had my druthers, i would have moved Marvin for Capspace the year before and resign Crawford.  Then I would have sent Smith Packing for whatever deal we could have found.  Then I would have gone after a C.

 

A team with Teague, Crawford, Johnson, Horf with a better coach would have been a great team.

But we will be asking this question about the worth of a star as long as we continue to believe that capspace is better than good players.

Capspace in Atlanta = Nothing.  It's like giving a child a broken cell phone with no battery or sim card.  It looks like you can do something but the end result is that you can't do nothing with it but pose.  Since the Ferry takeover, we have been posing and our record is going down.

[hazer]

What year is it? I've fallen into a worm hole.......

[Diesel]

What year is it? I've fallen into a worm hole.......

 

It's not a worm hole.  You were in a Dream.   2012, 2013, and 2014 never happened.  Woody is still the coach of the Hawks.  LD is still his assistant.  Bud is still back in San Antonio.  Josh Smith is still putting up bad shots.  Lebron is with the Heat and they just lost to Dallas.  Sterling owns the Clipps and Doc is in Boston with the Big three + Rondo.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's worst that that Diesel.   JJ was on that 40 - 26 team back in 2011 - 12.  So the Hawks are a game under .500 since he's been gone.  ( 81 - 82 ).

 

The worth of a star is that a star gets a good shot off with little time on the clock . . or can take and make impossible shots to keep his team alive . . and he can keep saving you on a nightly basis.

 

The sickening thing about the following video clip, is that ALL of these shots have occurred since after the 2012 All-Star break.  I don't know what starting happening with JJ and his penchant to make a plethora of big shots, but it started at that time.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsRSSOaLUPY

 

He's gone from being ISO JOE to being JOE JESUS, because he is undeniably the BEST ISO player in the league right now.

 

It's too early in the season to give up on the Hawks.  But if this team falls short to get out of the 1st round this year, that Joe Johnson deal would've been all for nothing.   Cao space didn't yield us a player either equal or over JJ, nor did it make us a better team.

 

Let's see how the team develops throughout the year though, and revisit this thread come February or March.

[macdaddy]

Except we weren't getting out of the first round WITH Joe.   If you really want to be on a treadmill put all your money in Joe Johnson.  I mean I like the guy but seriously.   

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Except we weren't getting out of the first round WITH Joe.   If you really want to be on a treadmill put all your money in Joe Johnson.  I mean I like the guy but seriously.   

 

We didn't get out of the 1st round for ONE YEAR from 2009 - 2012 with Joe, since initially making it back to the playoffs in 2008.   We had gone to the 2nd round for 3 straight years, including just coming off of pushing the Bulls to 6 games in 2010 - 11 in the 2nd round.   That team coasted through the regular season, but turned it on in the postseason.   Had they held on to win Game 5 in Chicago, we would've had a chance to close out a 2nd round series for the first time since 1988.  But they didn't, and the rest was history.

 

People talk about treadmills, but what are we on now?  If not a treadmill, a hamster wheel.

 

We simply bet on the wrong guy.  The exiled GM had initially put all of his eggs in Smith's basket, but wanted him gone after seeing him play just 3 months.  At least a trade for Smith before the start of the 2012 season could've brought the team back decent value that may have been a better fit for JJ, Teague, and Horford.

 

But like I said, it's a little too early for this thread.  As of now though, that trade is a failure.

Edited November 7, 2014 by TheNorthCydeRises

[HawkItus]

Don't sugar coat it.  This is revisionist history.  If we had of kept Joe, we most likely don't match Teague, still lose Josh, and don't get Sap, Korver, DMC, and Thabo.   So the team is centered around Joe with less talent than he struggled with in the glory days of "WLOC".   Yeah, enjoy that.   We aren't Brooklyn.   They can overpay for Joe and not have to team build because Lopez and DWill were there already.   

Edited November 7, 2014 by HawkItus

[Guest]

Sigh - it's quite simple really - when you've got teammates with bigger name recognition so you can be who you are instead of being the man - perfect situation for him. He's not a leading man with high expectations anymore. He can be who he has always been - Robin - and quite good at it.

Has he lead Brooklyn any further into the playoffs than he did with the Hawks with arguably much better talent?

Edited November 7, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[macdaddy]

We didn't get out of the 1st round for ONE YEAR from 2009 - 2012 with Joe, since initially making it back to the playoffs in 2008.   We had gone to the 2nd round for 3 straight years, including just coming off of pushing the Bulls to 6 games in 2010 - 11 in the 2nd round.   That team coasted through the regular season, but turned it on in the postseason.   Had they held on to win Game 5 in Chicago, we would've had a chance to close out a 2nd round series for the first time since 1988.  But they didn't, and the rest was history.

 

People talk about treadmills, but what are we on now?  If not a treadmill, a hamster wheel.

 

We simply bet on the wrong guy.  The exiled GM had initially put all of his eggs in Smith's basket, but wanted him gone after seeing him play just 3 months.  At least a trade for Smith before the start of the 2012 season could've brought the team back decent value that may have been a better fit for JJ, Teague, and Horford.

 

But like I said, it's a little too early for this thread.  As of now though, that trade is a failure.

 

 

This has been beaten to death of course but I don't think there's a gm in the league who thinks that trade was a failure.   I'm really happy that Joe is thriving in Brooklyn but the truth is that he is still trying to get out of the second round despite being on teams with Deron, Pierce, Garnett, Lopez.   We are getting the same results with him as without him, and frankly I'd much rather watch this team.   Some of that is on Josh for sure...in fact a lot of it.

[AUhawksfan]

The only thing I wish I could've seen is what Joe could have done without Josh Smith around.  Tough to say what Bud would have done with Joe too though since his coaching style is completely opposite of Joe's game.

 

When all is said though I love Joe but don't feel bad about the trade.  What could we have surrounded him with when our cap space was tied to his contract?  Considering Brooklyn has yet to make postseason noise with that roster I highly doubt we would be going much further with him here.

[macdaddy]

The only thing I wish I could've seen is what Joe could have done without Josh Smith around.  Tough to say what Bud would have done with Joe too though since his coaching style is completely opposite of Joe's game.

 

When all is said though I love Joe but don't feel bad about the trade.  What could we have surrounded him with when our cap space was tied to his contract?  Considering Brooklyn has yet to make postseason noise with that roster I highly doubt we would be going much further with him here.

 

And could we have gotten anymore for him?  I doubt it.  Lot's of people thought he was untradeable with an escalating max deal.

[benhillboy]

I have gained some respect for Joe due to his longevity. Still elated he's gone, though.

[BrazilianHawk]

I was and still am a fan of JJ's. But his contract was hurting the team too much. Try and win something with that bench full of old farts... IMPOSSIBLE!

[NBASupes]

Joe would be a better fit on this team then those Hawks. Joe's deal made it hard to get the pieces for these Hawks tho.

[JTB]

Sorry but I'm not feeling any regrets!

Have you all forgotten how soft those hawk teams where?!...a bunch of P-U-S-...well you know.

Yeah bigger names with Johnson and smith being on the team but as far as hustle and heart goes, this team was one of the worst! I much rather watch coach buds hawks as they are some very edgy players that play with a chip on their shoulder.

Problem with today's team is that we have a very good decent overall team but we don't have a damn closer! We don't have the person to give us buckets when we need them in critical times like when we had Johnson and all I can say is that Teague, Sap, or Horford will just have to step their damn game up and provide those meaningful buckets....simple as that

But as far as a TEAM goes...I like coach buds teams over the Johnson/woody era. Hawks were soft then and now today with bud they are a team of heart and hustle and you saw whst heart and hustle can do in the playoffs, we are just missing that take over man....so here's a call out to Teague!...it's not your team but it can be!

[jrok23]

I wish the hawks still had Johnson to tell you the truth the end of the spurs and hornets game would have had another outcome.

[Diesel]

I was and still am a fan of JJ's. But his contract was hurting the team too much. Try and win something with that bench full of old farts... IMPOSSIBLE!

 

 

How did his contract hurt the team?  What Free agent could we not have signed that we have signed since??  Finally, if you removed Marvin 8 Million  and Josh 14 Million...  I think we would have turned out better.

[Duff_Man]

Hawks win 45+ games this year. Book it.