Retrospect: The worth of a Star.

[Duff_Man]

Joe Johnson makes more than Lebron.

But totally worth it.

[Diesel]

Joe Johnson makes more than Lebron.

But totally worth it.

 

I detect sarcasm.

 

But with Joe's contract, we paid the price of admission.  We overpaid... sure, but we will have to overpay to get star quality.  Hence the title... The worth of a star.

 

There ought to be some critical thinking at least here.  We have fallen into the thinking of Ex GM Ferry who believed that you didn't need stars to win.  When every winning team has at least one star some maybe 2.  We have quickly become a fan base who would take potential over talent.  Who believes that it's wrong to take for a ten year talent over being a first round out in the playoffs. Who doesn't understand that teams with talented players lock them up before free agency comes around.  AND who treat the guys who become stars like the plague because they are paid to be here.

 

Joe Johnson went to 6 allstar games and we put Josh Smith and Marvin Williams around him.

Then we cursed Joe because he couldn't get us past the 2nd round.

Then we said we're going to keep the coach and the players around Joe.

Finally, we said Joe was the problem.

Or his contract or his age or something. And we put our money on Smoove and Horf.

[Guest]

Sigh - Joe is not 'THAT' guy. I loved Joe when he was here but "let it go."

You know that saying "it's no use crying over spilt milk" just let it go.

I think it's time to move this thread to 'Around the NBA'

[TheNorthCydeRises]

This has been beaten to death of course but I don't think there's a gm in the league who thinks that trade was a failure.   I'm really happy that Joe is thriving in Brooklyn but the truth is that he is still trying to get out of the second round despite being on teams with Deron, Pierce, Garnett, Lopez.   We are getting the same results with him as without him, and frankly I'd much rather watch this team.   Some of that is on Josh for sure...in fact a lot of it.

 

 

Not to be rude, but who cares what the other GM's think.  It's about what is most important for OUR team.   Had the GM actually used the cap space properly, the release of Joe Johnson should've equaled Al Jefferson + Lance Stephenson . . or at the very least just Jefferson.

 

People are talking about JJ still not being able to get out of the 2nd round.  Well here's a newsflash for people.  We haven't even gotten out of the 1st round since he's been gone.

[Diesel]

Sigh - Joe is not 'THAT' guy. I loved Joe when he was here but "let it go."

You know that saying "it's no use crying over spilt milk" just let it go.

I think it's time to move this thread to 'Around the NBA'

 

It's not the spilt milk that I'm crying over.  It's the fact that we're reaching back into the refrigerator and we haven't learned how to hold the milk bottle.

 

If you ignore history, you're bound to repeat it.

 

Well, we ignored what we did with Dominique.

We ignored what we did with Shareef.

We ignored how we treated Dikembe and Smitty.

Now you suggest

Let's ignore how we treated Joe?

 

[Guest]

How we treated Joe?? Ooookay - he got exactly what he wanted.

What am I doing??? - don't get sucked back in, don't get sucked back in.

Edited November 9, 2014 by JayBirdHawk

[turnermx]

Much props to Joe for his success in Brooklyn - though I doubt it could have ever occurred here. We didn't have the pieces around him mostly because of his contract.  He is not a leader, not a primary option, and in Brooklyn he doesn't have to be, while even being paid like one.  Good for him, good for Brooklyn, good for us that we are able to move on and rebuild without much of a step back. We were as competitive against Indy as we were in yesteryear w/ Joe against Boston, also getting eliminated in the first round in 7 games. I would rather my team get eliminated in a first round dog fight than get embarrassed in the second round. Either way isn't even the Conference Final. Still shaking my head at folks who think Joe could have taken us to the Promised Land. 

[nathan2331]

Not to be rude, but who cares what the other GM's think. It's about what is most important for OUR team. Had the GM actually used the cap space properly, the release of Joe Johnson should've equaled Al Jefferson + Lance Stephenson . . or at the very least just Jefferson.

People are talking about JJ still not being able to get out of the 2nd round. Well here's a newsflash for people. We haven't even gotten out of the 1st round since he's been gone.

Are you arguing we made a mistake by trading Joe or that we have done nothing with the cap space we got from the trade?

[Diesel]

How we treated Joe?? Ooookay - he got exactly what he wanted.

What am I doing??? - don't get sucked back in, don't get sucked back in.

 

Did he??  Long before we gave Joe a massive contract (to keep him from leaving to another team), Joe asked for more help.  What did we give him?  Marvin?  Josh Smith disrupting the flow of the game?  Bibby (too old to be any help)? I think that Joe's motivation was to be on a winning team and he put out every year.  However, we gave him the blame for everything.  We blamed him for every loss in the playoffs.  We said that he wasn't good enough.  Blah blah blah.  Then the contract made things worse.  Atlanta fans felt that the contract was given to Joe because he was supposed to be on Lebron's level.  NO.  The contract was given to Joe because he was about to go and play with Lebron and we would have lost our only Multiple allstar player since Nique for Nothing.  And we still insisted on keeping a coach that was predictable, a hothead like Smoove and a loafer like Marvin.

The reason why we can have a ton of money and not be able to attract a free agent to come here is because no star wants to be treated that way.

Until we learn to treat a star player, we won't get one.

[Diesel]

I would rather my team get eliminated in a first round dog fight than get embarrassed in the second round. Either way isn't even the Conference Final. Still shaking my head at folks who think Joe could have taken us to the Promised Land. 

 

Turner, open your eyes.

 

We are not going up, we are slowly falling out.

Since Joe.

You're saying... Yeah, BHOP didn't get knocked out.

That's not a victory Turner.

In fact, it's holding up forward progress.

 

Look around.  The teams that we used to laugh at have passed us.

 

Toronto has passed us.

Washington has passed us.

Charlotte has passed us.

It's possible that Milwaukee has passed us.

 

And we're still walking around patting ourselves on the back because we held our own in a 1st round loss?

 

Things won't change until we accept the sobering truth.  We won't win without a star player or two.

[High5]

I like Joe as much as the next guy, but how many more times do you want to have this conversation? $20+MM Joe only has a place on EC teams content with short-lived playoff appearances. Maybe we would have won a few more games with Joe, but we still wouldn't have accomplished anything of note and we would be even further away from actually contending, 

[Guest]

How we treated Joe?? Ooookay - he got exactly what he wanted.

What am I doing??? - don't get sucked back in, don't get sucked back in.

Oh, it's too late now madam.  You're in the thick of it.

 

Really though, this is still a relevant conversation because it's starting to look like we may end up basically getting nothing for JoeJohn.

[AHF]

Not that Joe is worth his contract, but I will say that using Lebron as a comparison doesn't really make sense because of the cap on maximum salaries.  Lebron will get every penny he can possibly receive under the CBA because is paid massively below what he would get under a free market system.  I think Joe got what the market would bear, although arguably it could be said it is inflated due to the max salary.

[Duff_Man]

It's not the spilt milk that I'm crying over.  It's the fact that we're reaching back into the refrigerator and we haven't learned how to hold the milk bottle.

 

If you ignore history, you're bound to repeat it.

 

Well, we ignored what we did with Dominique.

We ignored what we did with Shareef.

We ignored how we treated Dikembe and Smitty.

Now you suggest

Let's ignore how we treated Joe?

 

 

Shareef was better off not hustling back on defense for another team. Lazy, lazy player. Nique trade was a tremendous error. Smith, too. Deke was 34, so at least it made some sense (although he somehow played until he was FORTY TWO).

 

Joe Johnson's contract was a huge albatross for the team. It had to go. Luckily for the Hawks there was an insane Russian billionaire out there to take on that beast. His numbers were on the decline. He was over 30. The time was right.

[Diesel]

I like Joe as much as the next guy, but how many more times do you want to have this conversation? $20+MM Joe only has a place on EC teams content with short-lived playoff appearances. Maybe we would have won a few more games with Joe, but we still wouldn't have accomplished anything of note and we would be even further away from actually contending, 

 

We are not contending now.  The sad sobering truth is that everybody around us is better.  The only reason why the  Pacers aren't better than us is that their star player had a season ending injury.  Sheep beget Sheep my friend.  We won't attract any stars to want to play here with the cast that we have.  Not to mention, our ownership situation.  At least with Joe, he was desirable.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Are you arguing we made a mistake by trading Joe or that we have done nothing with the cap space we got from the trade?

 

You can make a legit argument for both points.   But since we traded JJ, the fact that we've done little to nothing with the cap space, is the main point.

[nathan2331]

You can make a legit argument for both points. But since we traded JJ, the fact that we've done little to nothing with the cap space, is the main point.

I still believe the trade was the right move, but yeah the fact is that we didn't do anything with the cap space the trade created.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk

[AHF]

We did use the cap space for Korver, Sap, etc. of course, we were over the cap and got rid of multiple players to get under but no piece was bigger than Joe. I know we were a second round exit with JJ but would have liked to see Joe in Buds offense instead of Woody's.

[High5]

We are not contending now.  The sad sobering truth is that everybody around us is better.  The only reason why the  Pacers aren't better than us is that their star player had a season ending injury.  Sheep beget Sheep my friend.  We won't attract any stars to want to play here with the cast that we have.  Not to mention, our ownership situation.  At least with Joe, he was desirable.

 

I know we aren't contending. That's why I said we would be "further away" with Joe. History shows you need prime HALL OF FAME talent just to win your conference. It's impossible to acquire HOF talent and keep a competitive supporting cast when you're paying over $20 million to a borderline All Star. 

[Diesel]

We did use the cap space for Korver, Sap, etc. of course, we were over the cap and got rid of multiple players to get under but no piece was bigger than Joe. I know we were a second round exit with JJ but would have liked to see Joe in Buds offense instead of Woody's.

 

We broke the rule.  You should always look at changing coaches before moving star players.

There was an expectation that went with trading Joe.  That expectation is that we were doing more than trading him for nothing. It turns out, we traded him for nothing.