I have to give it to Jeff. He's gotten patient and he looks legit

[Plainview1981]

LOL . . it's killing some of ya'll to give Teague credit.  That's cool though.  He's ALMOST on the cusp of being able to say . . "My Team".

 

I was telling you guys last year that it was Teague who consistently outplayed his man, even if we lost games.  Despite his wild fluctuations in play at times, he was the most consistent Hawk last season.  This season, he's taking it up a notch.  Not a top 5 PG yet, but definitely in the convo as a top 10 PG as of right now.

 

Of course, when he has his next 3 - 9 FG game for 9 points, people will shoot Teague with a shotgun once again.  Until that happens, I'm enjoying the way the dude is playing lately.  He's only really played 2 bad games the entire year.

 

My biggest critism  of Teague has been that he reverts back... I've always been harsher on JJ, Josh, Horford and Sap than I have Teague. I'm just taking a wait and see approach.

[NBASupes]

Jeff wasn't a top 10 PG last year, he wasn't at the beginning of this year. He became that when he finally realized he's a PG and not an undersized SG.

[Diesel]

How is telling the truth a hater comment @JTB? Tell me which of these is inaccurate.

Do you not see opposing PGs put up big numbers against Teague?

Do you not see opposing PGs get into the lane with ease?

Now again this may just be the way it is now and maybe it's just not possible to shut PGs down today, but I don't believe that to be the case. I just don't think that the top PGs put that much effort into defense consistently the way that guys like Mookie and The Glove used to.

 

But what's our defensive philosophy?

 

It seems to me that we do a lot of switching and swarming.  I don't call what we do a straight up man to man defense.

[JTB]

But what's our defensive philosophy?

It seems to me that we do a lot of switching and swarming. I don't call what we do a straight up man to man defense.

@Dolfan23 I don't necessarily think your hating I just think your comments are a bit unreasonable if that's the right words to use.

Because the NBA's best athletes are point guards today I feel we have to give teague a little bit of slack...most PGs today can't stop each other and teague is just now joining the party consistently! Remember that teague thread I posted "he can only stop himself"...well honestly that's damn near true for all the talented PGs in the NBA.

I think the difference this year is that teague has finally realized he can hang with the top of the line PGs in this league offensively every game but more than likely won't shut them down.

On the GP comment:

Different time and league. PGs today are a lot faster than the PGs back then and speed alone draws s tough assignment that's why these teams can't stop teague...he's using the elite speed he's always had to penetrate and score buckets. GP was a beast defender but I think he would have had a tougher time in the NBA today but still would have been a lockdown defender on most nights

@Deisel I don't know what our defense philosophy is to be honest. But I do think we play a fair amount of man to man and when we can trap the ball handler we do when the opportunity is there

Edited November 30, 2014 by JTB

[NBASupes]

How is telling the truth a hater comment @JTB? Tell me which of these is inaccurate.

Do you not see opposing PGs put up big numbers against Teague?

Do you not see opposing PGs get into the lane with ease?

Now again this may just be the way it is now and maybe it's just not possible to shut PGs down today, but I don't believe that to be the case. I just don't think that the top PGs put that much effort into defense consistently the way that guys like Mookie and The Glove used to.

The weird thing with Jeff is while he outproduce his opponent by a small margin and gives up drives to the lane constantly, he has a great +/- while Dennis locks down his defender and greatly outproduces his opponent, he has a poor +/-. Could it be that Jeff's scoring is just that vital to our team right now than Dennis defense and offensive talent? Maybe but Jeff's polish and Dennis lack there of is probably the best reason at the moment. Dennis is still raw. Jeff is mature and finally developing into a real PG.

[benhillboy]

...Dennis locks down his defender and greatly outproduces his opponent, he has a poor +/-.

I like +/- but it's weird like that. All I know is Dennis shut down Kemba and Roberts in the same possession. He routinely makes PGs pick up dribbles, pass out, and pout, and now has infected Jeff with the defensive effort.

A national article on this kid is coming soon. It's like a light bulb sparked in his head and he stopped turning it over, all his tools can shine now.

[Wurider05]

Teague's game stepped up after Bud benched him earlier in the season for Dennis when the game was on the line.

[ATLSmith]

He has some impressive and interesting point totals this season: 28 - 28 - 26 - 25 - 24 - 23 - 22 - 20 - 20 - 19 - 16 - 5 - 5 - 3

 

I guess he has to recharge some nights. He was definitely sleepwalking against the Knicks and that Cleveland game was an abomination for everyone. 

 

Totally agree.  Can't expect the guy to have 20 points every night and only having 3 games below 15 points is excellent.

[Mully]

He definately wasnt trying too hard against the Hornets. I only counted 3 drives to the basket, he was content to pass the ball and played average minutes. His passing has improved out of sight though, good to see when the shots arent falling he pours the effort into getting others easy shots.

[AHF]

Teague is stepping up big time this year. If he keeps it up, he could be an AllStar this year. Consistency is the key for him - particularly consistent aggression and engagement. I hope he finally has that first consistent season this year because I am skeptical Horford will be anything but up and down this year.

[Admin]

Rarely do seasoned vets make the All Star team the 1st year they put up consistent and worthy numbers. Usually it's the 2nd year of doing so when you get that recognition... Unless you're putting up ridiculous numbers and that's not happening with Teague. But if he plays like this all year, shows out in the playoffs and plays like this again next year I would fully expect him in then.

[benhillboy]

Brent gave us some love as a team to watch and spotlighted Jeff. Said Sap didn't know exactly where to be early on with Al coming back but expects us to click soon. One of the few analysts who actually watch us.

[ATLSmith]

Rarely do seasoned vets make the All Star team the 1st year they put up consistent and worthy numbers. Usually it's the 2nd year of doing so when you get that recognition... Unless you're putting up ridiculous numbers and that's not happening with Teague. But if he plays like this all year, shows out in the playoffs and plays like this again next year I would fully expect him in then.

 

That and all-star voting is more of a popularity contest than anything else.  We'll probably see Irving get in ahead of Teague even if their performance dictates otherwise.  I wish the coaches vote carried more weight.

Edited December 1, 2014 by ATLSmith

[AHF]

That and all-star voting is more of a popularity contest than anything else.  We'll probably see Irving get in ahead of Teague even if their performance dictates otherwise.  I wish the coaches vote carried more weight.

 

Isn't the All-Star game a popularity contest for the starters and coach's pick for the reserves?

 

I suspect Irving may be helped out both by the media attention and the fact that he is a former All-Star MVP if anyone is waffling on the pick.  That said, the Hawks could be a top 4 team in the East at the All-Star break and would need a representative.  Teague plays at the most competitive position but has been our best player and candidate so far this year.

[Admin]

I don't think is clearly our best player this year as Millsap has a strong argument but Teague is right there with him. He won't get in over Wall and Irving and don't forget fans could vote Rondo in on name alone.

[AHF]

I don't think is clearly our best player this year as Millsap has a strong argument but Teague is right there with him. He won't get in over Wall and Irving and don't forget fans could vote Rondo in on name alone.

 

The only thing that Sap has done that is All-Star worthy this year is his steals.  Otherwise, he has been a solid, sub-All-Star level player and hasn't had the impact that Teague has, IMO.  I have been disappointed with Sap so far but not significantly so.  I just hoped for a little better from him after last season (where he exceeded my expectations).

[Admin]

The only thing that Sap has done that is All-Star worthy this year is his steals.  Otherwise, he has been a solid, sub-All-Star level player and hasn't had the impact that Teague has, IMO.  I have been disappointed with Sap so far but not significantly so.  I just hoped for a little better from him after last season (where he exceeded my expectations).

 

Is that so? I guess you've also got anti-Millsap on the brain like a few others. I'd love to hear how anyone would expect his numbers to not dip a tick with Horford returning and Millsap's usage dropping because of that.

 

Per 100 Possessions Stats

Season	G	FG%	3P%	2P%	FT%	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PTS		ORtg	DRtg
2006-07	82	.525	.333	.527	.673	15.1	2.2	2.4	2.6	3.3	19.9		112	102
2007-08	82	.504	.000	.508	.677	13.9	2.5	2.2	2.2	2.6	20.0		112	103
2008-09	76	.534	.000	.537	.699	14.7	3.1	1.8	1.6	2.9	23.1		116	105
2009-10	82	.538	.111	.543	.693	12.6	2.9	1.4	2.2	2.6	21.4		113	103
2010-11	76	.531	.391	.535	.757	11.7	3.8	2.1	1.4	2.9	26.6		114	108
2011-12	64	.495	.226	.505	.792	14.1	3.7	2.9	1.3	2.8	26.5		113	102
2012-13	78	.490	.333	.498	.742	12.3	4.5	2.3	1.8	3.1	25.2		112	104
2013-14 ★	74	.461	.358	.487	.731	12.8	4.7	2.6	1.6	3.8	27.1		105	102
2014-15	15	.482	.318	.529	.662	12.3	4.4	3.5	1.3	3.6	25.1		106	102
Career	629	.506	.328	.517	.722	13.2	3.6	2.2	1.8	3.0	24.1		112	104
7 seasons	540	.516	.274	.522	.723	13.3	3.3	2.1	1.8	2.9	23.6		113	104
2 seasons	89	.465	.352	.494	.721	12.7	4.7	2.8	1.5	3.7	26.8		105	102

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 12/1/2014.

Advanced Stats

Season	PER	TS%	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%	OWS	DWS	WS/48	VORP
2006-07	17.6	.571	15.1	19.8	17.5	6.7	2.4	4.2	16.1	17.8	2.4	2.3	.153	1.8
2007-08	16.1	.548	12.1	20.8	16.5	7.0	2.2	3.5	12.6	18.1	2.5	2.7	.148	1.7
2008-09	18.6	.576	13.1	21.0	17.0	9.8	1.8	2.5	12.6	20.0	4.5	3.3	.162	2.9
2009-10	16.7	.573	9.9	18.9	14.5	8.9	1.4	3.5	12.2	18.7	3.7	3.5	.151	2.3
2010-11	19.8	.578	7.5	19.4	13.4	12.6	2.1	2.2	11.3	22.6	5.2	2.5	.143	2.6
2011-12	21.8	.545	9.7	21.2	15.4	12.4	2.9	2.0	10.3	23.2	4.9	2.9	.179	4.3
2012-13	19.8	.550	8.6	18.8	13.7	14.5	2.3	2.7	11.8	22.4	4.8	2.9	.154	3.2
2013-14 ★	19.8	.545	7.2	21.9	14.6	16.2	2.6	2.5	13.2	25.7	2.7	4.0	.129	3.1
2014-15	19.7	.550	7.1	20.5	14.1	14.2	3.5	2.0	13.6	23.5	0.6	0.8	.130	3.8
Career	18.9	.560	10.0	20.2	15.1	11.5	2.2	2.8	12.3	21.4	31.2	24.9	.151	21.8
7 seasons	18.8	.563	10.5	19.9	15.2	10.6	2.1	2.8	12.1	20.6	27.9	20.1	.156	18.0
2 seasons	19.7	.546	7.2	21.7	14.5	15.8	2.8	2.4	13.2	25.3	3.3	4.8	.129	3.8

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table

Generated 12/1/2014.

[Admin]

Now you look at those tables and tell me how Millsap has gotten worse, keeping in mind the return of Al, which has slightly changed his rebounding chances and the increase in usage from Antić to Horford and the increase in usage of Teague PLUS Millsap trying to figure out how he fits into the offense now. 

 

Unless you're just blindly hating on him it's difficult to see how anyone could make an argument that he's been worse than he was last year and nobody is going to convince me that he's not our best player again this year. Teague has definitely gained some ground on him but Millsap is still the better player.

[Admin]

That and all-star voting is more of a popularity contest than anything else.  We'll probably see Irving get in ahead of Teague even if their performance dictates otherwise.  I wish the coaches vote carried more weight.

 

I agree with that. Teague's play is certainly worthy but it's super rare for guys who finally have a break through season to get into the All-Star game that year so that's playing against Teague as well. Plus you've got the names like Wall (deserving) and Kyrie (so not deserving) plus Rondo (again not deserving) then you've got the very solid and equal to Teague PG who's running the East's top team and possibly the All-Star game coach. I just think the deck is stacked against Teague and a lesser position like C and maybe PF will sneak either Al or Millsap in again. Maybe if we keep whipping up on teams we'll see Teague start getting the attention he deserves but I doubt that will happen. You won't see the Hawks being highlighted on ESPN.com or Sportscenter so casual fans don't even know much about Teague or the Hawks.

[AHF]

Now you look at those tables and tell me how Millsap has gotten worse, keeping in mind the return of Al, which has slightly changed his rebounding chances and the increase in usage from Antić to Horford and the increase in usage of Teague PLUS Millsap trying to figure out how he fits into the offense now. 

 

Unless you're just blindly hating on him it's difficult to see how anyone could make an argument that he's been worse than he was last year and nobody is going to convince me that he's not our best player again this year. Teague has definitely gained some ground on him but Millsap is still the better player.

 

First, the return of Al can make him worse (or at least diminish his positives) so I don't give a pass on that particularly in the context of whether he is likely to be an All-Star this season.  He was borderline All-Star last season and made it in and a drop in raw numbers this season will almost surely keep him out.

 

Going past the raw numbers I see:

Scoring down

3pt% down 

AST% down  

TO% up (bad)

Block% down 

Rebounding% down (both raw #s and rates on both ends of the court) [here I acknowledge that Hoford hurts him but Horf has not been a beast on the board and our opponents still tend to outrebound us so this remains an issue]

 

The good has been the better efficiency on 2pt FGs (which nets out to slightly more efficient scoring) and the big jump in steals.  

 

I am not hating Sap but I think Teague has been our best player so far while Sap has been very solid.  After looking at the numbers more closely with what you showed, I guess I would characterize Sap as doing about as well as last season but putting himself in a position where making the All-Star team is going to be a long-shot.

 

Teague has been markedly improved.